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04/21/2007 03:47:19 PM · #101 |
Originally posted by teto:
This is the way I'm trying to vote since I came back to DPC
Any picture not related to the challenge <3 (even the most wonderful picture) I think we should carry out the challenge.
Any picture that meets the challenge >4
I'm leaving my votes in this way:
4 for pictures that meet the challenge but low quality, (out of focus, too dark, etc.)
5 for Regular photos that meet the challenge but " X " photos,
6-7-8 Photos well done, but nothing innovated.
9-10 for those where they took an extra step and creativity.
Now, I have to admit in my first age in DPC (in 2004) I was voting low, I fact my first photo didn't meet the challenge requirements because I didn't understand perfectly DPC.
P.S. I'm trying to vote all the picture in the challenge |
I somewhat agree with teto's voting procedure. Actually, if we had a "guideline" up next to the photos as people we viewing them, we could at least give everyone a standard to go by and be reminded of what a photo "should be" rated at.
IT's something to consider, because the newbies (like myself) are not sure how to vote the first time we come on. Maybe we can get some standard average that is at least a bit above what we have it now and a little more consistent as well.
Just throwing it out there!
Message edited by author 2007-04-21 15:48:25. |
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04/21/2007 04:09:14 PM · #102 |
Originally posted by ursula:
Originally posted by hywind:
Why do people get so defensive and take it personal, and not able to see what someone is trying to say as a positive.
To receive a vote from a better known photographer and multi ribbon winner, would make that person feel that there photo's are worthy of a mention from such a recognized photographer.This would be good for the moral of DPC.
Human nature works in strange ways, just that some do not like to see it in writting, I am not insinuating or offending any person or degrading the moral of DPC in any way, it would help the morality of DPC for the higher recognized photographers that I am sure are admired by many for thier talent and ability, to give some good positive feedback on lesser known work. |
To me, what you're saying really makes no sense.
Earlier on in the thread you claim that there are many undervalued images in each challenge ("... a lot of photo's are really underrated throughout challenges..."), and wonder "what is required to achieve a high standard on DPC".
You opine that they might have risen to the top by cherry-picking votes, that is, voting selectively on only some images, not all (the 20% thing).
You also say, "Does this mean they look and say this might Knock mine and give a lesser vote than they would normally and not leave a good comment about the photo." This is an insinuation that they are voting in a less than ethical way.
But you also say that the vote/comment from one of those whose image/s have risen to the top (in a possibly less than ethical way) would mean more to you than the vote/comment of the rest? Wow!
Plus you seem to expect people to recognize your entry while it is still in the voting stages?
This is the kind of crap that just doesn't do any good for the DPC morale. |
You do have a way of turning an innocent remark (thinking out loud) with no malice meant, around to a DPC moral delema. How does the site council know how members feel if we can't think out loud.
And I am not talking about my entry literally, but in general, I do not expect people to know my entry during voting. I am sure a lot of entries would like to see more positive feedback from multi ribbon winners over a period of time on more occasions, this would be good for the moral of DPC. This is IMHO.
And during this communication I have not used moral lowering remarks to say what I am thinking.
Message edited by author 2007-04-21 16:14:57.
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04/21/2007 04:19:45 PM · #103 |
Originally posted by LaMas:
I somewhat agree with teto's voting procedure. Actually, if we had a "guideline" up next to the photos as people we viewing them, we could at least give everyone a standard to go by and be reminded of what a photo "should be" rated at.
IT's something to consider, because the newbies (like myself) are not sure how to vote the first time we come on. Maybe we can get some standard average that is at least a bit above what we have it now and a little more consistent as well.
Just throwing it out there! |
We shouldn't tell people how to vote. We don't want robotic uniform voting. People can, and should, vote their feelings.
There will always be threads asking why voters vote so low, but these are questions of human nature and not much else. In this case DrAchoo is questioning why the new voters have a tendancy to "undervote", but as they familiarize themselves, that evens out. It's an interesting question into the mindset of new voters. |
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04/21/2007 04:36:27 PM · #104 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by liberty:
When I first started here, I was giving out tens like they were going out of style. I think my judgment is still a little off, I come accross photos that are hard to vote on, I have to skip those. But I think I am being a bit more reasonable on my voting. I hope :) |
What makes you think that your judgement is 'off'? A score of 10 only means "good", not perfection. It is clearly written on every voting screen.
Have you already come to believe that pictures submitted to challenges are not "good"?
What is happening to you is that you are allowing yourself to become indoctrinated into average DPC scoring for no other reason than that is the way everyone else votes. Why do that when in the beginning you instinctively knew that DPC voting is low?
We can all learn something from  Hihosilver - the great Anti-Troll! |
Not at all!! I think that the pictures submitted here are unbelievably great!! I vote the way I see fit per picture, I was just saying I think I've learned that not every picture is a 10. The way everyone else votes has nothing to do with the way I vote!!!
What do you mean, "in the bginning I knew that DPC voting is low" the day I joined, is damn near the day I picked up a camera and started shooting, and knew nothing about this site, it seemed to be the best one I found in my search for photo challenges! Just a hobby, here!
I will NEVER be your average person. And I am far from being a troll. Who said anything about 10 being perfect.....that is just the highest number available...... |
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04/21/2007 04:47:06 PM · #105 |
Noob here.
I figure 1 means "absolutely without thought or merit." and 10 means "I cannot come up with a criticism that is not trivial or contrived."
In each challenge in which I've voted there have been 0-3 of each of these. I go for symmetrical bell curve, with the greatest weights on 5's and 6's. My average vote is 5.47, so I'd say I'm doing pretty well since the average would be 5.5 ideally.
After the voting, I feel like all the shots at the top are pretty spectacular, and the ones at the bottom tend to be pretty wreched. While my votes may not line up across the board with the community consensus, I feel like things are generally in about the right place. In the latest "night shot" the 5's stretched from 184th place to 57th place; where you fall in that is obviously pretty random. But so what? I haven't even broken 5 yet!
I do think the "big guns" make things a little unfair by consistently entering images of such high quality that they make the rest of us look bad. I don't know how I'm supposed to succeed here when people just throw around their "talent" and "experience" all the time. |
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04/21/2007 04:55:41 PM · #106 |
I make voting real easy. If someone has taken a shot that meets the challenge, is in focus, it gets a 6. If the size is wrong, too small for example, that knocks a 1 off. If does not meet the challenge, but is still a good photo, it gets 4. If it is small, crap and an obvious attempt at Brown, it gets 4.
If the photo makes me stop and think, it gets 7. If I smile and nod, that is a real 8. If I sit and look, then look again, it gets a 9 or a 10.
I vote 100% of entries in a challenge, and I vote on most challenges. I don't vote down just because I am in that challenge, I can recognise a good photo and feel no animosity cos others can take a better photo than me. I don't leave comments anymore, mainly cos I don't need the hassle it brings via PMs |
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04/21/2007 05:17:10 PM · #107 |
These threads amuse me to no end.
Do some people vote low on purpose, for whatever reason? - Yes.
Do some people vote high on purpose, for whatever reason? - Yes.
Do some people vote differently in order to try and enhance/skew the vote for personal gain? - Yes.
Do *all* new people vote low? - No.
Do *all* long-timers vote high? - No.
And.. finally.. does any of it, in the long run, make any significant difference whatsoever? - Absolutely not.
This is a society, and as such, you get the pros and cons of it being one. You get people that vote ethically, and you get people that skim the line.. and you get people that are entirely unethical. You also have people (the SC), that do their job keeping an eye out for unethical behavior and stop it when they can. That's all any of us can ask.
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04/21/2007 05:23:45 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
And.. finally.. does any of it, in the long run, make any significant difference whatsoever? - Absolutely not.
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Actually, just to give people a little hope, it does appear the thread may have been helpful. SC does a great job weeding "anomalies" out, but this may have sped it up on an account or two.
Probably the takehome message is if you suspect something to send SC a note. I didn't do it because honestly I didn't think "cheating" was going on, just low voting of new people. I may have been wrong. |
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04/21/2007 05:30:59 PM · #109 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Artyste:
And.. finally.. does any of it, in the long run, make any significant difference whatsoever? - Absolutely not.
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Actually, just to give people a little hope, it does appear the thread may have been helpful. SC does a great job weeding "anomalies" out, but this may have sped it up on an account or two.
Probably the takehome message is if you suspect something to send SC a note. I didn't do it because honestly I didn't think "cheating" was going on, just low voting of new people. I may have been wrong. |
It's a great take-home message :) Of course, as I said, these threads amuse me... so they can't entirely disappear. lol. |
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04/30/2007 07:27:33 AM · #110 |
My scoring scale:
A+ 10
A 9
B+ 8
B 7
C+ 6
C 5
D+ 4
D 3
F 2 |
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04/30/2007 09:16:12 AM · #111 |
Originally posted by whiterook:
My scoring scale:
A+ 10
A 9
B+ 8
B 7
C+ 6
C 5
D+ 4
D 3
F 2 |
you should fully use the entire spectrum of the voting scale.
if 2 is an F, what about the 1? ;) |
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04/30/2007 09:21:22 AM · #112 |
Originally posted by whiterook:
My scoring scale:
A+ 10
A 9
B+ 8
B 7
C+ 6
C 5
D+ 4
D 3
F 2 |
He SPEAKS!
Im sure the 1 is reserved for special purposes! |
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04/30/2007 09:34:17 AM · #113 |
1 you're joking
2 wtf?
3 blah blah blah
4 blah blah
5 blah
6 not so blah
7 ok
8 very ok
9 good
10 excellent
I used to vote with technical stuff in mind in the past. Now I don't care how you do it, just do it. And it = great photograph. And "great photograph" = a feeling.
Only thing left to do for me is to get the technical stuff out of the way and put some feeling into my own photos. :)
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04/30/2007 09:37:12 AM · #114 |
What I really hate are comments that say "great photo" but of which you can deduct that the commenter gave a really low score. (if for example there are two comments on a photo and one is mine). Like they want to get a really high helpful comments rating or something.
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04/30/2007 09:37:17 AM · #115 |
Mine is similar:
1 you're joking
2 humm
3 blah blah blah
4 blah
5 ok
6 pretty good
7 very good
8 great
9 way awesome
10 Holy Shit, I just crapped my pants! |
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04/30/2007 09:50:43 AM · #116 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Only thing left to do for me is to get the technical stuff out of the way and put some feeling into my own photos. :) |
Thats exactly how I feel. Screw the rules...
Why do noobs vote low...? I assume their just new...excited...more agressive but that passes with time.
I'm more curious why veterans vote low...
As I see it...it's kinda like "bringing a gun to a knife fight"
DPC is a nice easy place to compete and learn. All about perspective.
Edited to ask: Azrifel-Did you mean forget the technicals...or get them under your belt and use them?
Message edited by author 2007-04-30 09:59:45. |
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04/30/2007 10:02:37 AM · #117 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Azrifel-Did you mean forget the technicals...or get them under your belt and use them? |
Both. :)
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04/30/2007 10:16:03 AM · #118 |
Here's my take on this. (Like anyone cares, lol!)
New people have not been assimilated! :P (I'm kidding)
They are hear to learn and they think they have/could have talent. Many do, but some may need tweeking. They are overwhelmed by the talent that is here, thus choosing a few of the repeat ribbon winners that they aspire to be like or at least hopefully, work up to the talent level of. Those are some of the people that they would enjoy getting comments from periodically. Not just flowery comments, but constructive comments (without being negative)that actually do allow one to learn. When voting, it is also overwhelming as you see these great shots flash before your eyes and you have to figure out how to "categorize" them in such a way that they can be voted on.
This whole experience takes a bit of getting used to at first. (My experience) Then...you start shooting more, entering more challenges, doing side challenges, reading and posting to forums, doing tutorials, getting to know some of the members and from there...it's all downhill!!! (That's a joke!) Everyone takes a little time, but they eventually settle in. :)
"Encouragement is the oxygen of the soul."
--John C. Maxwell |
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05/02/2007 10:43:41 PM · #119 |
The fairest way to vote is to use a die. (Singular for dice for
those grammatically challenged.)
Votes are based solely on the results of random chance.
Since a die only has 1 through six dots, we
eliminate giving out ones, twos, nines and tens.
So if the roll is a one, that entry gets a three.
If the roll of die hits six, that entry receives an 8.
I have yet to adopt this random system, but given
how voting already seem nonsensical, it is worth considering.
There are ribbon winners receiving ones and twos,
and god awful entries receiving nines and tens.
So how is the random system any different?
Am I serious? Or am I just being sarcastic
poking fun of the illogical way some DPC members vote,
just to make a point.
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05/02/2007 11:14:28 PM · #120 |
An interesting conversation. I find it interesting to read the pretzel logic for how people think others are voting. It sounds like paranoia talking. I mean us newbies could vote real high and bolster your ego, but you don't want that...if I give you low point then maybe you'll work harder, besides you have some idea of how good you really are.
It is suggested one leave a comment if ones vote is low. I'm not opposed to leaving comments. However when I have to vote on a large percentage of entries for my votes to count, it is irksome to leave comments for every low vote I make. No doubt I'll draw a lot of flack for this comment, but I see a lot of work that seems to be phoned in for lack of a better expression. Honestly are you turning in your best work or do you just want to get your work entered? And before you jump down my throat, I think just wanting to enter, is OK. Woody Allen I think said showing up is 80%. It allows you to get some feed back. It may give you some confidence that you don't suck like you thought you did. Maybe for your next entry you'll be more careful and conscientious because you feel like, "heck, I can do this".
Also high ratings are supposed to be for work one thinks is good. Maybe the person voting doesn't think the work is very good. Voting is subjective, but it does reflect the real world. You will at times be judged by competence and other times by incompetence. Get used to it. Not all of us voting know what we are looking at. Maybe you are great and we just haven't seen it. Do not despair. And for goodness sakes don't worry about the low votes. It's not really why you are here is it? |
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05/02/2007 11:36:00 PM · #121 |
Originally posted by Fairfield20:
There are ribbon winners receiving ones and twos,
and god awful entries receiving nines and tens.
So how is the random system any different?
Am I serious? Or am I just being sarcastic
poking fun of the illogical way some DPC members vote,
just to make a point. |
There are some funky votes.
But the best photos always win and the horrible ones are always on the last page.
Strange, huh?
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