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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Why do new people vote so low?
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 04/20/2007 09:41:48 PM · #26
Hi
Just putting in my two bobs worth here. It is my opinion that if something is not done about the cheat votesâ€Â¦ it will necessitate a radical overhaul of the voting system and the system changed so that it can be reduced it to a low level, (you can never completely eliminate cheats ) it will eventually lead to the ultimate demise of DP Challenge. It will go down the drain We have some very intelligent, educated people in this forum surely between them they can come up with a suggestion to lower the cheat votes. You can rave on to me as much as you want, but this site, is IMO, loaded with the cheat vote. You might claim that I am not right and promise me that it isn’t soâ€Â¦ It is like getting a promise from a politician, it is just that. A politician’s promise. I make no apologies for my out burst to anyone. But if something is not done to make the system fairer, this site will go the way of the Dodo, and for most of us, that will be a sad thing. For me, I have no intentions of debating this with anyone, like I have said, I am just having my say.


04/20/2007 09:43:17 PM · #27
Originally posted by levyj413:
I do wonder at the people who vote 1s and 2s on shots I find spectacular, but then again, I wonder at the people who vote 9s and 10s on shots I find less than spectacular.


Just ask me. I'll tell you all about it! hahahahaha
 04/20/2007 09:43:39 PM · #28
Originally posted by jdannels:
The new users are not yet brainwashed to vote highly the ultra-colored photos that generally grace the front page and bring fresh eyes and votes to challenges. It takes awhile before they conform and their votes go up. :)


or it could be trolls. . . .

(whistles innocently)
 04/20/2007 09:44:30 PM · #29
Originally posted by coolblue:
Hi
Just putting in my two bobs worth here. It is my opinion that if something is not done about the cheat votesâ€Â¦ it will necessitate a radical overhaul of the voting system and the system changed so that it can be reduced it to a low level, (you can never completely eliminate cheats ) it will eventually lead to the ultimate demise of DP Challenge. It will go down the drain We have some very intelligent, educated people in this forum surely between them they can come up with a suggestion to lower the cheat votes. You can rave on to me as much as you want, but this site, is IMO, loaded with the cheat vote. You might claim that I am not right and promise me that it isn’t soâ€Â¦ It is like getting a promise from a politician, it is just that. A politician’s promise. I make no apologies for my out burst to anyone. But if something is not done to make the system fairer, this site will go the way of the Dodo, and for most of us, that will be a sad thing. For me, I have no intentions of debating this with anyone, like I have said, I am just having my say.


So what you're saying is that people are cheating and if anyone says people are not cheating you won't believe that because your mind is made up. BUT, you neglect to say WHO is cheating. HOW they are cheating. Site Council and DPC admin do LOTS to prevent cheating on this site including banning cheaters... but you won't believe that, right?

04/20/2007 09:50:52 PM · #30
Hold up cindy! lemme grab some popcorn
 04/20/2007 09:50:52 PM · #31
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by pgirish007:
what do you guys think if we do not allow a person to vote in the same challenge where he/she submitted an photograph? this will make sure that the person is not scoring low because he/she has submission. :):)




04/20/2007 09:51:57 PM · #32
Restricting users from voting in challenges they've entered in is definitely no answer, and that horse has been killed, beaten, brought back to life, ridden into the ground, shot out of mercy, and beaten again.

People vote different ways because that's how they vote. I sometimes think that people vote too highly - not every photo is exceptional. It varies by challenge and interest level.

The voting system has safeguards in place to help protect against the true trolls. It could probably be statistically better, but what system couldn't?
 04/20/2007 09:53:25 PM · #33
I remember my first few weeks at DPC I was accused of over-inflating the vote. I struggled to figure out other people's voting systems and the "correct" way to vote. Since then, I have learned it's my vote and my comment to give. I will not be assimilated to a lower voting average.

At an average vote given of 6.9273, I am very happy to be as prophecied by Art Roflmao... the Anti-Troll!

My whole point here is how do you know they vote low because they are new?

Maybe they vote low because they ___________::fill in the blank::

Message edited by author 2007-04-20 21:56:06.
 04/20/2007 09:57:10 PM · #34
intermission
 04/20/2007 09:59:28 PM · #35
Everyone knows Langdon is code for the machine that actually picks winners and losers at random each week... this is all useless conversation. :)
 04/20/2007 10:00:13 PM · #36
Official announcement --

If/when you make a "discovery" like DrAchoo did, you may still start a thread (if it really turns you on), but if you are truly suspicious, it makes things a heck of a lot simpler to just send us a ticket so we can go directly to "investigative mode" rather than detect then investigate. :)

Hopefully, such reports are unsubstantiated and unfounded, but in the event that someone is trying to manipulate the voting, we do want to know, and we will do something about it.
 04/20/2007 10:31:43 PM · #37
Originally posted by karmat:
Official announcement --

If/when you make a "discovery" like DrAchoo did, you may still start a thread (if it really turns you on), but if you are truly suspicious, it makes things a heck of a lot simpler to just send us a ticket so we can go directly to "investigative mode" rather than detect then investigate. :)

Hopefully, such reports are unsubstantiated and unfounded, but in the event that someone is trying to manipulate the voting, we do want to know, and we will do something about it.


I wil use my results as did DR.Archoo

I have noticed over a long time that the better known and high resulting photographers on this site have almost always received comments from other photographers at the same level during voting.

In a current challenge my photo is running at the high end of voting IMHO.
Votes: 190
Views: 371
Avg Vote: 6.6789
Comments: 17
Favorites: 3
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 04/20/07 10:10 pm

What has amazed me is that 371 views have been made, but only 190 votes, and don't tell me the same people keep going back ans looking at the photo all the time.

Of the 17 comments which I have really appreciated, not one is from one of the better known and higher level photographers.
Does this mean they look and say this might Knock mine and give a lesser vote than they would normally and not leave a good comment about the photo.

Let it be known that I am not calling anybody a cheat, but I do believe the voting leaves a lot of the also ran photographers wondering what is required to achieve a high standard on DPC. And don't be funny and say better photo's, this may be true but a lot of photo's are really underrated throughout challenges, which IMHO is mainly brought about by the 20% VOTE MAYBE THIS SHOULD BE LIFTED TO 50% then more photos would be seen overall.



04/20/2007 10:32:59 PM · #38
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by option:
I voted alot higher when I first joined... then I entered a challenge.

I vote nicer again now that I'm finally scoring well :-P

This is an honest and revealing statement about DPC voting habits and probably describes a typical voter.


Just to clarify, I've never been a "low voter" (my avg has always been above a 5), but I definitely give out more high marks these days...
 04/20/2007 10:34:43 PM · #39
Originally posted by coolblue:
Hi
Just putting in my two bobs worth here. It is my opinion that if something is not done about the cheat votesâ€Â¦ it will necessitate a radical overhaul of the voting system and the system changed so that it can be reduced it to a low level, (you can never completely eliminate cheats ) it will eventually lead to the ultimate demise of DP Challenge. It will go down the drain.


Ah, you begin to understand. This is actually the seventh iteration of DPC, all other having followed the natural progression and then reformulated by the Langdon bot upon system failure. Yet there is hope as The One of prophecy has been revealed. The Anti-Troll has come at last to deliver us from our chains...

hihosilver is The One! Repeat after me: "I want to believe."

{/geeky, pointless parody}
 04/20/2007 10:43:33 PM · #40
Originally posted by hywind:
What has amazed me is that 371 views have been made, but only 190 votes, and don't tell me the same people keep going back ans looking at the photo all the time.

A very large number of people vote by quickly going through the challenge grouping the photos into two or three groupings, e.g. 3's, 5's, and 7's. Then they go back through those groups and refine the scores; the 7's (the "better" photos") will be re-distributed among the 7-10 range, the 5's into the 4-5-6 range, etc. The revote will count as an additional view, but not increment the vote count.

A lot of people also go back after voting and add comments, or re-evaluate some photos, likewise pumping up the "views" number.

Message edited by author 2007-04-20 22:48:04.
 04/20/2007 10:44:02 PM · #41
Originally posted by hywind:
not one is from one of the better known and higher level photographers.
Does this mean they look and say this might Knock mine and give a lesser vote than they would normally and not leave a good comment about the photo.


Just because I'm really bored at the moment, I poked through your highest-scoring shots. I think you're focusing on things that support your contention rather than looking objectively.

Your highest-scoring shot has two nice comments from Qart and KarenNfld, both multi-ribbon winners.

Your second-highest has nice comments from KarenNfld and SandyP, again multi-ribbon winners.

Third-highest, KarenNfld and SandyP and hotpasta, more multi-ribbon winners.

Also, by the way, they all have average scores received over 6.0.
 04/20/2007 10:46:39 PM · #42
Originally posted by shutterpuppy:
hihosilver is The One! Repeat after me: "I want to believe."


shutterpuppy..."The truth is out there." ;-)
 04/20/2007 10:49:19 PM · #43
Originally posted by hywind:
... which IMHO is mainly brought about by the 20% VOTE MAYBE THIS SHOULD BE LIFTED TO 50% then more photos would be seen overall.


Actually, if you really thought there were cheats (who knows, not me), the answer would be to LOWER the percentage and make it a cap, so that everyone only COULD vote on a randomly selected 20% of the entries. That would stop people from voting up their friends, if in fact they are doing that, which I doubt, at least at a level which could affect the final outcome.

Just an observation, not a suggestion. System seems to run pretty well as it is. There are always going to be great images that don't appeal to the masses. That's why McDonald's does so well, right?
 04/20/2007 10:51:14 PM · #44
Originally posted by GeneralE:
A very large number of people vote by quickly going through the challenge grouping the photos into two or three groupings, e.g. 3's, 5's, and 7's. Then they go back through those groups and refine the scores; the 7's (the "better" photos") will be re-distributed among the 7-10 range, the 5's into the 4-5-6 range, etc. The revote will count as an additional view, but not increment the vote count.

A lot of people also go back after voting and add comments, or re-evaluate some photos, likewise pumping up the "views" number.


I'm very happy that you explained this because that recently happened to me and is throwing my voting spreadsheet off! My vote received changed but the number of votes did not.
 04/20/2007 10:52:35 PM · #45
Originally posted by shutterpuppy:

{/geeky, pointless parody}


Syntax error... where is the "open geeky, pointless parody" tag?

I understand Jason's sentiment, though. The voters seem incomprehensible at times. I've become all too very familiar with the "holy crap, this entry which I love is a mid-5?!" feeling.

At least it's nice to know it happens to the superstars as well. =)
 04/20/2007 10:52:38 PM · #46
err... maybe some people believe that being number 1 is better than ten. So they really believe they are scoring high!!

And since they don't speak english they cannot read threads like this ;)
 04/20/2007 10:53:07 PM · #47
Originally posted by hihosilver:
Originally posted by shutterpuppy:
hihosilver is The One! Repeat after me: "I want to believe."


shutterpuppy..."The truth is out there." ;-)


Perhaps, but I'm sticking with hywind... "Trust no one." ;p
 04/20/2007 10:55:38 PM · #48
Originally posted by shutterpuppy:
Perhaps, but I'm sticking with hywind... "Trust no one." ;p


I'm sticking to my favorite Arabic saying....

"Trust in God, but keep your camel tied tight!"...;-)
 04/20/2007 11:01:44 PM · #49
Just to be clear, I was not accusing these two of "cheating" (ie. being ghost accounts or something of the sort). It would make no sense because they actually left comments (that's how I found them). True cheater votes probably won't leave trails, eh?

I'm just more asking why I tend to find people early in their voting career who have these greatly outlying vote averages. I mean, 2.69? Why do you bother voting if the pictures are so bad?
 04/20/2007 11:01:54 PM · #50
Even if some individuals were voting certain photos low in an attempt to raise their own placement in challenges, I wonder how effective this could be without coordination.

If done on just an individual basis, I would imagine that this behavior would: A) become statistically irrelevant once the average vote cast has reached a high enough number (say 100 or 150 votes), and B) be counteracted by similar behavior by the other one or two sour grapes voters who are trying to influence the vote in the same way.

Now if the effort was coordinated, that would be different, but it would also run a much higher risk of being detected by the SC as the pattern would be that much more obvious. Something similar occurred in the past, I understand (before my time), with a member having friends vote high on his images in order to gain ribbons, but it was eventually discovered and corrected.

I guess what I'm saying is that, while no system is entirely foolproof, the minor abberations of the "1" on the "great" photo or the "10" on the "lackluster" photo probably don't result in any real, statistically relevant alteration in how the photos as a whole end up being ranked.
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