Studio Strobes Vs. Flashes on Stands

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/16/2007 07:21:22 PM · #1

I've been going back and forth on what kind of budget light setup to get. I'm debating on the two following setups:

#1:
Take my canon 430ex that I already have, buy a 580ex for $400. Put the 430 on a stand with a softbox and fire it as a slave to the 580. With this setup, I'm out maybe $500.

#2:
Buy a cheap "do-it-all" kit off ebay. The one I'm interested in is $350 shipped and comes with:
-Two (2) Professional Studio Strobes: BY-160B (at 160 Watt-Second each), each with their own 75-watt modeling light.
-One (1) Studio BY-240SD Strobe at 36-Watt/Second
-Two (2) 20" X 28" Softboxes
-One (1) Wireless Radio Transmitter and One (1) Radio Receiver
-One (1) 15-ft hotshoe/PC sync cords
-One (1) 20-ft standard PC sync cords
-32" (80cm) Collapsible (double side) Reflector (Silver and gold) disk
-Set of 4 leaf Barndoors
-Set of 4 color gels
-A honeycomb
-Two (2) Carry bags
-Three (3) Backdrops (black, white, textured)
-One (1) 34" Umbrella
-Three (3) 6'2/3" foot Light Stands for three strobes

What are the pros and cons of each? Is the quality of light from these cheap strobes going to compare to the EOS flash units?

_eug

Nikon D50

04/16/2007 07:33:24 PM · #2

Originally posted by ibkc:

Buy a cheap "do-it-all" kit off ebay. The one I'm interested in is $350 shipped and comes with...

[snip]

What are the pros and cons of each? Is the quality of light from these cheap strobes going to compare to the EOS flash units?

I've not had experience with strobes yet, but word around here is that you get what you pay for if/when you buy the 'cheap "do-it-all" kit off ebay'.

04/16/2007 07:33:38 PM · #3

You basically asked this same question yesterday, but apparently didn't get the answer you wanted?

K, my 2 cents. There is no way you can get any quality lights, backdrops, stands, bags, etc. for under $400. The fact that ONE flash costs more than that "studio in a box" should tell you its amazingly cheap and will never look "professional" no matter what they call it.
Sometimes with those box kits you end up with lights that have to go back to the factory to change the light bulbs, sometimes they don't work at all. Why waste money on things you'll end up throwing in the garbage and replacing.

I would suggest buying ONE good studio strobe (alienbees.com) and one softbox. With your current flash and a reflector you can get a good start at quality studio work. As you can afford it, buy more until you have a good studio setup.

04/16/2007 07:38:22 PM · #4

Originally posted by idnic:

Thanks for the reply. You're right, I did ask about the same question yesterday. I posted a link to that kit and asked if it was worth a crap. I got a reply saying you get what you pay for. I was going to append on to that post with this question "well, how does it stack up against this idea..." and present the flashes on stands. But the title of "critique these ebay lights" wouldn't hold up.

I think you hit the nail on the head with your explanation. Alienbees seems to be a solid light that I wouldn't have to throw away if I wanted to get more serious with my photography. Thanks for your input!

Nusbaum

Fujifilm X-T1

04/16/2007 07:48:08 PM · #5

I agree with Idnic... buy one good quality strobe and start with that.

BUT, don't discount that 430EX you already have handy. That little light has a five stop range and and enough power to pull off some great portraits. Buy a nice stand, an umbrella adapter with a hotshoe, hotshoe trigger so you can fire with a sync cord, and an umbrella. You won't get quite as much power as an AB400, but you have the same power range and the whole setup is very easy to move around. If you want to trigger without a sync cord use a canon ST-E2 or a pocketwizard. Mounting a 580EX on the camera is a bit of a waste because you would want both of your lights off camera anyway.

I didn't come up with this appoach, but I love it. More info at strobist.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/16/2007 08:01:29 PM · #6

It occurs to me that my reply before sounded a bit harsh and I appologize for that. Its not you that I'm frustrated with, but the people who package these "studio in a box" or "starter studio" type kits and take people's money for crap.
If it was possible to buy an entire workable studio for that cost, everyone would have one before their 2nd lens... it just isn't worth the money. Besides that, what you need for your studio depends completely on what YOU want to shoot. You may never need barn doors or might need one really large softbox and one umbrella or you might need 3 softboxes. You won't know what you need until you begin to shoot in studio situation and learn how the equipment works and how to use it.
No sense buying anything you don't need, and what you do need you want to be good enough quality to last for a long time so you don't buy it again and again and again.

I have had 2 of my AlienBees for over 5 years and haven't changed a bulb yet *knock wood*. I use my lights almost daily, move them, take them on location, kick them, trip over legs, etc.... and they've been great. Backdrops are another issue, my first 3 backdrops were a set of 3, cheap and NEVER worked for a proper backdrop (too thin so light got through, always wrinkled and melted when you ironed it...). Good muslins are thick, cheap muslins are like cotton sheets ... the difference really shows in your images.

_eug

Nikon D50

04/16/2007 08:09:55 PM · #7

Originally posted by idnic:

It occurs to me that my reply before sounded a bit harsh...

Yes, it did. Now go sit in the corner with Art. Any you two keep your hands to yourselves. ;)

04/16/2007 08:45:09 PM · #8

Originally posted by _eug:

Originally posted by idnic:
It occurs to me that my reply before sounded a bit harsh...

Yes, it did. Now go sit in the corner with Art. Any you two keep your hands to yourselves. ;)

What fun are you?!?!?! *pouts*

04/16/2007 08:51:58 PM · #9

Originally posted by idnic:

It occurs to me that my reply before sounded a bit harsh and I appologize for that.

It's ok, I forgive you. Haha. If I am about to waste $350 on lights that would be better off lighting up a lava lamp than on a photographer's stand I need to have some sense beat into me.

Thanks for your follow up with the added info. You've sold me on Alienbees, hope you get commission.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/16/2007 09:24:29 PM · #10

Originally posted by ibkc:

Originally posted by idnic:
It occurs to me that my reply before sounded a bit harsh and I appologize for that.

It's ok, I forgive you. Haha. If I am about to waste $350 on lights that would be better off lighting up a lava lamp than on a photographer's stand I need to have some sense beat into me.

Thanks for your follow up with the added info. You've sold me on Alienbees, hope you get commission.

I wish I did get commission from them. I bet I've sold 50 lights or more just here on DPC. I can't say much for other brands because I've never had to replace my ABs.... that's a good thing! :)

_eug

Nikon D50

04/16/2007 09:34:45 PM · #11

Originally posted by idnic:

Originally posted by ibkc:
Thanks for your follow up with the added info. You've sold me on Alienbees, hope you get commission.

I wish I did get commission from them. I bet I've sold 50 lights or more just here on DPC. I can't say much for other brands because I've never had to replace my ABs.... that's a good thing! :)

She's also waiting for her commission check from B&H for selling us all on the Wacom tablets too. Some 60 people in one thread!

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

04/16/2007 09:40:19 PM · #12

Originally posted by _eug:

She's also waiting for her commission check from B&H for selling us all on the Wacom tablets too. Some 60 people in one thread!

It was a good deal! :D I must be a bad influence. lol

MattO

Nikon D4

04/16/2007 09:47:07 PM · #13

Originally posted by ibkc:

Originally posted by idnic:
You basically asked this same question yesterday, but apparently didn't get the answer you wanted?

K, my 2 cents. There is no way you can get any quality lights, backdrops, stands, bags, etc. for under $400. The fact that ONE flash costs more than that "studio in a box" should tell you its amazingly cheap and will never look "professional" no matter what they call it.
Sometimes with those box kits you end up with lights that have to go back to the factory to change the light bulbs, sometimes they don't work at all. Why waste money on things you'll end up throwing in the garbage and replacing.

I would suggest buying ONE good studio strobe (alienbees.com) and one softbox. With your current flash and a reflector you can get a good start at quality studio work. As you can afford it, buy more until you have a good studio setup.

Thanks for the reply. You're right, I did ask about the same question yesterday. I posted a link to that kit and asked if it was worth a crap. I got a reply saying you get what you pay for. I was going to append on to that post with this question "well, how does it stack up against this idea..." and present the flashes on stands. But the title of "critique these ebay lights" wouldn't hold up.

I think you hit the nail on the head with your explanation. Alienbees seems to be a solid light that I wouldn't have to throw away if I wanted to get more serious with my photography. Thanks for your input!

I'm glad to see I wasted my time giving you an honest opinion and trying to help you. I'll bank this for the future.

MattO

04/16/2007 10:02:16 PM · #14

Your honest opinion did help. I don't see it as a waste of time. I didn't discount your opinion and search for another one with this thread. I just wanted a comparison between those types of lights and canon flashes... Why's everyone so angry in here? I love you people.

04/16/2007 10:05:06 PM · #15

Woah, before jumping the gun, mind telling us what you're planning on shooting? Otherwise it's hard to make a lighting recommendation (lighting is not one-size-fits-all).

And check out strobist (excellent resource for hot shoe flash technique).

And some more food for thought - for the price of a single AB800, you could pick up 3 Vivitar 285's.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

04/16/2007 10:09:45 PM · #16

I plan on doing some senior portrait work. I've done a couple sets, and have had to keep everything outdoors. I want to set up an indoor studio for some small shoots. Also, I have a job coming up shooting a newborn. Just odd and end jobs like that. It would also be nice to have them available on location, but it's not completely necessary.

MattO

Nikon D4

04/16/2007 10:12:03 PM · #17

Originally posted by ibkc:

Its not that I'm angry, your reply to Cindi was,

"You're right, I did ask about the same question yesterday. I posted a link to that kit and asked if it was worth a crap. I got a reply saying you get what you pay for."

Sounds to me that you surely didnt appreciate my help or even acnkowledge that I even replied to you. When people take time out of their day to try and help you its nice to even acknowledge the fact that they did, rather then dismiss it because you didnt get the reply you may have wanted. I'm not the only one who picked up on that, or the first reply from idnic wouldnt have even mentioned it.

At any rate you have gotten some really great advice from someone who knows her Bees. I'd take that into consideration and go from their. The fact of the matter is simple, strobes are strobes, flashes and cheaper strobes arent going to compare to quality equipment. Dont waste money on something that your going to toss out and upgrade. Buy what you need the first time, you will save money in the long run.

MattO

04/16/2007 10:33:48 PM · #18

S'okay. I meant to respond to the original thread yesterday and got busy with something else. The bump thread reminded me that everyone deserves an honest answer from someone who has a bit more experience and DPC is the right place to look for that advice. We're all good. Group hug! :D

04/16/2007 10:47:03 PM · #19

Originally posted by ibkc:

How much room do you have to work with? When you say senior portraits, do you mean just head and shoulders or are you planning on doing full body shots? Do you have experience with different modifiers (ie - softboxes, umbrellas, beauty dishes)? Are they necessary for your work?

04/16/2007 10:47:58 PM · #20

"I got a reply saying you get what you pay for."

You're right, I did sound like a jerk. I apologize. For what it's worth, I was ready to click buy on those lights and your advice kept me from making that mistake. Thanks.

And thanks to Idnic and you both for the advice. I am always appreciative to get advice from people far more experienced than myself, whether I act like it or not.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

04/16/2007 10:51:51 PM · #21

Originally posted by MattO:

At any rate you have gotten some really great advice from someone who knows her Bees. I'd take that into consideration and go from their. The fact of the matter is simple, strobes are strobes, flashes and cheaper strobes arent going to compare to quality equipment. Dont waste money on something that your going to toss out and upgrade. Buy what you need the first time, you will save money in the long run.

I disagree. I see lighting as situational rather than one being better than the other. There are plenty of applications where flashes are more than enough to get the job done, and there are situations where I'd want a 2400w/s strobe setup. It's a bigger waste of money not being able to distinguish that.

MattO

Nikon D4

04/16/2007 10:59:16 PM · #22

Originally posted by virtuamike:

Originally posted by MattO:
At any rate you have gotten some really great advice from someone who knows her Bees. I'd take that into consideration and go from their. The fact of the matter is simple, strobes are strobes, flashes and cheaper strobes arent going to compare to quality equipment. Dont waste money on something that your going to toss out and upgrade. Buy what you need the first time, you will save money in the long run.

I disagree. I see lighting as situational rather than one being better than the other. There are plenty of applications where flashes are more than enough to get the job done, and there are situations where I'd want a 2400w/s strobe setup. It's a bigger waste of money not being able to distinguish that.

Your certainly welcome to disagree, its the great thing about life, we can all have our opinion. However my point is/was that you can always turn down the power of the strobes if they are too hot, you cant turn up the flashes if they arent bright enough.

You have to determine now, what your future needs might realistically be and try to cover it, rather then buy something that fits the needs this week, only to find that next week you need more power.

Regards,

Matt-MO

KevinRiggs

Canon EOS-1Ds

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/16/2007 11:22:22 PM · #23

Originally posted by MattO:

However my point is/was that you can always turn down the power of the strobes if they are too hot, you cant turn up the flashes if they arent bright enough.

At the risk of dragging out a small point in an otherwise useful thread:

Your statement isn't true. I've 3 B-800's and 1 B-400 and the adjustments on strobes is a finite range. I think I agree with the basic thrust of your statements but strobes are not a place where "bigger is better". Sometimes a B-400 (160 true ws) is more than enough depending on how much reflective surface, how you plan on lighting the scene and what you have to help you modify or cut the output. You could get filters that cut the output of the lights but in my experience those can be . . . tedious for lack of a better term, to utilize. While a small flash head isn't going to light some scenes worth a darn it does have valid uses both indoors and out and it can be a useful tool for learning some about lighting effects.

04/16/2007 11:26:37 PM · #24

Originally posted by KevinRiggs:

While a small flash head isn't going to light some scenes worth a darn it does have valid uses both indoors and out and it can be a useful tool for learning some about lighting effects.

I think it's understated how useful little flashes can be =) They aren't just learning tools.