Rule of thirds overlay grid - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

04/13/2007 09:07:36 AM · #1

Hi,

I'm a noob and am just starting to learn more about the technical aspects of photography. This site has been useful for that and for many other things.

What I'd like to see, but I'm not sure if it is technically feasible, is a way of viewing the photos on dpchallenge with a rule of thirds grid overlay, which could be switched on and off at will. I would find this useful as it would give me a better understanding of composition and give me a better idea as to how to apply this basic, but very effective, rule.

Maybe this could be a 'members only' feature, but with a few example photos for beginners who are not yet ready to pay to become a member.

What do the rest of you think? Good idea or bad idea? Web design gurus out there, how could this be done. CSS layers??

Over to you all.

Alex

CEJ

Canon EOS-40D

04/13/2007 09:12:27 AM · #2

IMHO - if you are looking for a grid to judge photos for application to the rule of thirds, you are being way too critical.

Is the composition pleasing?
Is it balanced?
Is it awkward to look at or cause you to strain to see the perspective?

Whether a subject/object sits exactly on a thirds line is somewhat irrelevant. I don't think anyone uses a grid to align to thirds when cropping. Just not practical.

As far as application to your own photos, the editor you use should/might have a feature to turn on and off a grid during processing. This would be more helpful to you.

Placement does not have to be exactly on a thirds line. The rest of the composition must be taken into account as well. Again, balance, perspective, as well as negative space, size of the subject in relation to the total picture size all play parts, or should at least, in final subject placement (assuming via crop).

Message edited by author 2007-04-13 09:15:52.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

04/13/2007 09:30:42 AM · #3

CEJ - your comments are highly valid and maybe I am being overly critical, but I like to understand rules completely before pushing past them and this rule fascinates me. I've been reading up on the rule and it does seem as though it has a sort of psychological effect on a viewer and can make photos more pleasing to the eye.

A grid like this would allow me to see how or whether the rule has been applied and if the result has benefited from its application.

The other factors you mention are also key aspects too and, switching on a grid in my editor is something I'll start doing once I've built up some material to work with.

If it turns out that I'm the only one who thinks such a grid may be useful, then I shall conclude that I'm being too fussy!

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

04/13/2007 09:43:40 AM · #4

I guess the untechnical way to do it would be to take a piece of plastic, much like a transparency used in the classroom, and cut it to fit the pictures on your monitor and stick it over the pictures. not a perfect solution, but maye a work around. the advantage to this approach would be that you could use it on other photo sites as well, which is also something I highly recommend.

i agree with CEJ that there are other things that make a picture pleasing besides the RoT, BUT it was probably the single most important lesson I learned when I started taking pictures. No, it doesn't have to be followed, but I have seen simple pictures turn into good pictures simply by using it.

CEJ

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

04/13/2007 09:57:26 AM · #5

Again, I think you are being too technical in its application. To look at a photo then align it to a grid to see if it is exactly on a thirds line, IMO, is just going a bit to far, even if the guise is only understanding. You should be able to simply look at the photo and see if it is 'approximate' or not and then weigh that consideration to all the other factors. To measure to see if something is on a thirds line is, to me, going overboard in any context. Even learning as again, I don't know anyone who uses a grid to 'align' their photos for application of this rule as each composition requires more than just alignment to make or break it.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

04/13/2007 10:00:33 AM · #6

karmat - good suggestion - as long as I can resize the photos so they fit that plastic template.

CEJ - yes you are right, but it would be interesting for me and I'm curious. Don't want to end up a dead cat though!

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

04/13/2007 10:05:02 AM · #7

Originally posted by CEJ:

Your point has been given and taken, respectively. He is wanting to learn, and people have to do that in the way that makes sense to them. if it helps him to have a "physical application" of it, eventually (probably sooner than later)he will "graduate" to what you are talking about.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

04/13/2007 10:21:15 AM · #8

Thanks for the support karmat, but I do accept that what CEJ is saying is right. Indeed, I'm not looking for a mathematically exact application of the RoT. I'd just like to see if others have applied the rule and, by looking at challenge scores, for example, understand how well it has worked.

A RoT grid would help me do this, but would anyone else find this useful?

As a result of hanging around here and reading up on the subject I've started to look at photos in a different way. Trying to understand what makes them work, if you like. There are zillions of factors, I know, but by getting a feel for a few of them, I think I can start to take more interesting photos.

I've already started to line up quite a number of subjects and I want to create images that look and 'feel' good.

rox_rox

Canon EOS-20D

04/13/2007 10:21:46 AM · #9

Welcome noob,

I completely understand where you are coming from. There is nothing wrong with checking the rule of thirds intersections. I do it all the time; but only after I have decided how I feel about the image as a whole.

I assume your interest is merely academic and that you don't intend to base your scoring on this "rule", which is merely one of many compositional guidelines.

Here is an article that I really like: Composition and the Elements of Visual Design

As far as checking the rule of thirds...I download the images, open them in Photoshop and measure the intersections with guidlines. I think it's a great practice excercise for learning what a rule of thirds image looks like. Eventually, you'll be able to compose in-camera.

I've also been pleasantly surprised to find that images can be deceiving and appear to be rule of thirds when they really aren't and vice-versa. That illusion is created by the utilization of the other elements of design; which is why it's important to learn about them all.

Message edited by author 2007-04-13 10:23:48.

kteach

Nikon D50

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6

04/13/2007 10:30:56 AM · #10

Did a quick search for some examples of photos with the grids...

thinctanc - Lots of examples, with some rollover images... also explains some additional rules
Radiant Vista - Primer on Composition (video) - a bit long, and more talking than pictures... but if you prefer to hear it instead of read it...
Photoshop Nerds - shows how to turn grids on in Photoshop, and then shows a few different crops of the same photo using the rule.

It's great that you want to really understand the rule and its applications so that you can use it in your photography. I think that as you read and learn more about it, you'll find that you can recognize it more naturally, and the grid won't be quite as necessary. Some cameras have a grid you can turn on while you're shooting, which might also be helpful if you have it.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR

04/13/2007 10:32:35 AM · #11

Originally posted by greatandsmall:

I assume your interest is merely academic and that you don't intend to base your scoring on this "rule", which is merely one of many compositional guidelines.

Gordon Bennet! No, I have no intention whatsoever of becoming a RoT maniac. I did not even think about using this as a way of scoring other photogs work. But now you mention it.......(que: evil laugh)

My interest is purely academic. Honest. What you say is spot on re how well or otherwise the RoT works and when it works.

And thanks for the welcome and the link. I shall check it out.

Actually I am going a bit OTT with RoT - I'm starting to wander down the street and mentally apply the rule to what I can see....

kteach - thanks for the interesting links. I know that some cameras come with the RoT grid, but my eos 400, which is on the way, does not, although this does not bother me. As I have said, I'm not looking for absolute perfection.

Message edited by author 2007-04-13 10:35:45.

RainMotorsports

Nikon D60

04/13/2007 10:34:36 AM · #12

Originally posted by karmat:

The plastic would only work for one image size. Dont be quick to say the majority of photos are 640x480 because they can be 480x640 just rotate right? What about 640x640. Or smaller... or larger in special challenges.

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

04/13/2007 10:39:41 AM · #13

I was going to show you this info too. If thirds is your default grid, you can use command-" to turn it on/off.

Originally posted by kteach:

Photoshop Nerds - shows how to turn grids on in Photoshop, and then shows a few different crops of the same photo using the rule.

Message edited by author 2007-04-13 10:40:07.