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11/28/2003 09:26:34 AM · #1 |
OK...I want a new camera very bad! I'm reasonably sure I'll have from $500-750 to spend before XMas. I've been looking at the Sony DSC-F717, but the Canon EOS Rebel looks good too but I'd have to wait longer for it. In my shoes, which would you get or can you recommend another?
And I'm not being lazy, I've done a good bit of homework, now I'm looking for opinions!
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11/28/2003 09:49:54 AM · #2 |
I was in the same position about 6 months ago.. except the 300D wasn't out yet.. I had a kodak camera, but i wanted more.. If i were choosing today, i'd go for the 300D, but at the time it was more a choice of f717 or 10D, and that was quite a leap.. for me to have gotten the 10D would have meant waiting until almost now to pay for it, and i dont think i would have been as happy this summer with my kodak compared to my sony. It's a tough choice.. do you want a good camera now? or a better camera later? if you know you'll be doing photography for more than a few years, wait a few months and get the good one :) I'm already thinking of maybe getting the 300D after christmas..
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11/28/2003 10:02:20 AM · #3 |
I agree with Refracted - if you can, wait for the one that you REALLY want!
My question to both of you - (or anyone else with an opinion on this) - why would you choose the 300D over the 10D - ASIDE from price. I want the 10D, but have been seeing so much about the 300D in the forums, that I am curious as to what the 300D offers that the 10D doesn't -(again, ASIDE from the cheaper price!)
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11/28/2003 10:03:49 AM · #4 |
You have to decide with your requirements and your budget.
The main plus for the 300D is its low image noise, F717 definitely has more noise. I have a F707 and still find it a very good all-in-one camera, with all the manual controls I need. I hate buying, carrying and changing lenses all the time. For the type of photography I do, it suits me very well.
If you are looking for extensive pro and con's , there are plenty of threads in the Sony forum of dpreview (especially about the new F828 versus 300D). Before you go in there, you better list what is important to you....
Message edited by author 2003-11-28 10:04:56. |
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11/28/2003 10:06:53 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by lhall:
My question to both of you - (or anyone else with an opinion on this) - why would you choose the 300D over the 10D - ASIDE from price. I want the 10D, but have been seeing so much about the 300D in the forums, that I am curious as to what the 300D offers that the 10D doesn't -(again, ASIDE from the cheaper price!) |
For me the 10-d is currently out of the picture so to speak because (exclusively) of the cost! I've seen on pricegrabber that you can get a Rebel for 1000 w/lens (BTW is this glass any good?) or the 10-D for 1250 w/o lens. I can't wait THAT long, with my current camera I would go totally insane!
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11/28/2003 10:10:51 AM · #6 |
I used two pro-sumer cameras, and both were very nice (Nikon 5700 and Sony 717). I upgraded to a Canon 10D with three lenses this summer. To me, there is no going back. I shot Nikon film SLR's for 20+ years, and being limited by a prosumer camera was frustrating. I finally jumped in and got a DSLR, and I'm very happy about it. The Rebel is worth the wait, in my opinion. If you have specific questions, feel free to email or PM me!
As for the 5700 and the 717, both are good cameras and took great photos. I would recommend the 717 over the 5700 due to autofocus issues. If your desire is to have a DSLR, buying a prosumer will only delay that goal. If your only desire is to have a better camera, the 717 is a great buy.
JD Anderson
Message edited by author 2003-11-28 10:13:49.
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11/28/2003 10:17:56 AM · #7 |
Thank you for the input, and for the info on the Sony forum; I had forgotten about that forum.
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11/28/2003 10:24:24 AM · #8 |
I have shot extensively with film cameras, mostly Nikon SLRs. (though my first camera was a Canon FT-QL)I recently got rid of my F3's, lenses, my 4x5, and my lighting equipment because I wasn't using it and it was taking up too much space. If all my Nikon glass was AF, I would have bought a D100 and that would be that.
I bought a Canon G5 and I love it. It is not an SLR, it is not perfect and I do want a DSLR someday. If I had decided to wait until I had enough $$$ to buy one, I'd still be waiting. Instead, I am learning how to work within and overcome the limitations of my equipment, which will make me appreciate the advantages of a DSLR all the more.
But, I'm taking pictures NOW, which is the big thing.
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11/28/2003 10:37:16 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I bought a Canon G5 and I love it. |
Did you look at the F-717? And if so why did you pick the G5 instead? I don't like its lack of manual focus...
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Instead, I am learning how to work within and overcome the limitations of my equipment, which will make me appreciate the advantages of a DSLR all the more. |
That's what I've been doing with my point/shoot Oly, but I feel that I'm close to the edge with my potential with this camera. I love it and will keep it for those trips that I don't wanna take the expensive rig, but it's just that....point and shoot.
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
But, I'm taking pictures NOW, which is the big thing. |
Here here!
Message edited by author 2003-11-28 11:04:19.
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11/28/2003 10:45:21 AM · #10 |
I would agree with what others have said before me. My point is cost.
It will cost more for a DSLR than you have budgeted.
The most important reason for going with a DSLR is that you can get quality optices for it. It is true that the Canon photoprocessor is better than other cameras out of the box, but it is always the glass you put in front of it that makes the difference. Interchangeable lenses is the main advantage of a DSLR.
First, you need to figure the price of an extra battery or two, additional memory cards and other accessories into the total cost. But the single largest expense with a DSLR by far, as it should be, is the cost of the lenses. THAT is where the real money should go, not the camera body.
I have the F717 and it is a decent all-in-one camera. As a result it takes decent but not great pictures. My main issues with it is difficulty with manual focus and the overall quality of the images out of the camera due to it's photoprocessor.
If you want OK pictures right now then go with the F717. If you want better, higher quality you will have to spend a lot more money.
Personally, I would save and go with better quality.
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11/28/2003 11:36:30 AM · #11 |
Ron,
Your bio and your signature both state that "you are a photographer". The right equipment is the only thing that will enable you to reach your satisfaction point. Wait for what you really want.
Yesterday I snapped some of the worst pictures in my 30+ plus years of shooting. 1st holiday with the digital and the write speed is driving me nuts. Almost all the shots were dynamic and therefore blurry. Lots different than loading a 400 or 800 ISO and snapping away. Anyway, it was the catalyst to force the decision of returning to film or deciding on the D100. In yesterday's case, I was unsuccessful due to a lack of preparedness. Wrong tool for the task.
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11/28/2003 12:33:07 PM · #12 |
Buy my olympus E20 off me ;)
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11/28/2003 01:30:07 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by lhall:
My question to both of you - (or anyone else with an opinion on this) - why would you choose the 300D over the 10D - ASIDE from price. |
At this page you will find a table that lists all the differences between a 10D and a 300D.
Basically the 10D is far more customizable, offers more control over AF and metering, has a much larger buffer, is faster in continiuos mode, more rigid and durable, has a brighter viewfinder (pentaprism vs pentamirror) and has mirror lock-up (sharper long exposure when put on a tripod, the mirror slap of the 300D has a significant influence on image sharpness compared to the lock-up of the 10D, says Michael Reichman from Luminous Landscape. I have seen this mentioned at several other places as well and I have all the reason to believe them)
All these differences have driven me away from the 300D. I want that extra control, I want mirror lock-up etc.
But I don't want to buy the 10D anymore as well. Canon will come with a 1D succesor soon and a second camera is expected as well. It could be a 10D succesor or something between the 10D and the 1Ds. Don't take my word on this. As I already have a camera to play with I don't mind to wait a bit. (Don't like the D100, D1's and D2's are to expensive, don't like the S2, interested in the Sigma SD10).
Don't be put off by the plastic of the Rebel, it can take a blow.
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11/28/2003 02:04:56 PM · #14 |
| I'm in a position something like TooCool's, wanting more pixels for larger prints but not sure I'm ready for the expense and complexity of interchangeable lenses. After many, many hours of research on the net and several trips to camera stores to get a hands-on feel, I decided the route for me is to buy the best prosumer type available. My thinking is that by the time I outgrow it there will probably be a whole new generation of choices available. And by keeping it after my next upgrade I'll have a top notch camera to use for the times when I don't want to haul out the big boy. Right now I'm leaning toward the Minolta A1 because of it's excellent image quality, flexibility of controls and speed of focusing. I'm hoping to be able to make a purchase before the end of the year. Santa does read these forums, doesn't he? |
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11/28/2003 02:25:05 PM · #15 |
I did look at the Sony, but I was put off by it's bizarre (at least to me) shape and form factor. I liked the G5's feel in my hand and it's resemblance to a old 35mm rangefinder.
The G5 does indeed have manual focus. It's not the greatest, but I have found it to do the job when needed.
I think that any of the cameras I looked (Canon G5, Nikon 5700, Nikon 5400, Oly 5050, Sony F717) are a good step up from a P&S camera without the cost of a true DSLR system.
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11/28/2003 05:03:07 PM · #16 |
| I agree with Spaz, there a lot of good cameras in the gap between P&S and DSLR. I looked hard at the Fuji S7000, the Kodak 6490, and the Panasonic FZ10 as well as the ones he mentioned. I think this will be a growing segment of the market as manufacturers seek to sell a second, and third, camera to the millions who are getting entry-level digicams now. I foresee technology possibly making the SLR viewfinder concept obsolete but interchangable lenses will always be a break point in the scale from beginners to pros. When I do make the jump I'll go with a brand that has a stable of quality lenses; and right now I think that means Canon, Nikon or Sigma. |
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11/28/2003 05:52:40 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
First, you need to figure the price of an extra battery or two, additional memory cards and other accessories into the total cost. But the single largest expense with a DSLR by far, as it should be, is the cost of the lenses. THAT is where the real money should go, not the camera body. |
To me, if you haven't considered this - then you really do need to. I am by no means all that experienced of a photographer.. I'm just really into gadgets, and when I buy things it's usually all or nothing (ie: I don't spend my money on many things, but when I do it's usually all at once).. I was having the same decision you have - F717 vs. EOS-300D and in the end I decided the 300D was just too expensive for me at the time. Other people have mentioned the immediacy of purchasing the F717, which is true.. if you can't wait, I would look into the F717 a little bit more. The 300D looks like it is a better camera overall, but the cost difference is certainly more than just the difference between bodies. Although, I suppose you can always wait awhile to upgrade and get extra lenses.. and in the long run, having those lenses won't be too expensive, because once you go dSLR, I'm sure any future upgrades will also be to dSLRs (which will probably drop in price a little bit by the next time you need to upgrade).
Summary of what most people have said (including me):
If you can't wait, get the DSC-F717. But if you can wait, the purchase of the 300D will most likely pay off in the long run. |
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11/28/2003 06:45:58 PM · #18 |
If you are interested in a dSLR, I think that a camera that feels and behaves like one is a better choice. I personally, after handling the F707, don't think that the Sony F line is the right choice if you want to go in the dSLR direction.
But that's just me. The point is: Try all kinds of cameras at a store. Don't buy blind of the web. Try the F717, try the F828 once it is out, try the Fuji S7000, the Canon G5, the 300D. Perhaps you think that you want one, but you don't really need one. A compact G5 or big zoom all in one F828 might suit you just fine.
Edit: And ask the store if they will match your web price. Perhaps they will, perhaps they will come close. Do support them, they are much easier to go back to or to ask help about additional items or for some buying guidance. The shop at which I buy most of my additional gear will try to price match my next camera. I just asked them if they would and they were willing to try it. I wouldn't mind if they would be 100 bucks above a creditworthy website, just to support them as they support me. Just don't ask them to match some shitty thumbs down low grade no good site. Treat people with an open and serious mind and if they are any good, they will treat you in the same way.
Message edited by author 2003-11-28 18:52:00.
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