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03/12/2007 09:01:35 AM · #1 |
| I have a contact who has recommended me to take school portraits next fall at a small private school. There are about 100 students, K-12. I plan to contact the administrators probably around May. My question isn't about pricing per se, but rather about typical arrangements between a photographer and school. Do schools typically take a cut? Anything else I should know? Thanks for any tips. |
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03/12/2007 12:46:24 PM · #2 |
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03/12/2007 12:51:54 PM · #3 |
I would love to know the answer to this question too. I am interested in going after a few local schools for class pictures. I wonder if the schools get some sort of kickback.
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03/12/2007 12:53:46 PM · #4 |
Sorry, no idea. Have you tried some google searches of other school photogs to see if they mention fees?
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03/12/2007 12:56:03 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by idnic:
... Have you tried some google searches of other school photogs to see if they mention fees? |
Thanks for the reply. No, I haven't yet. dpc was my first stop as usual. I'll look further into it and post any results I find. |
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03/12/2007 02:21:47 PM · #6 |
I have never done this, so what I have to say is just my experience from the other side of the table...
public schools may present those photo sessions as a fundraiser opportunity. In that case, the photographer makes a deal with the school to split the proceeds with the PTA or something.
Now, you are mentioning a private school with 100 kids from K to 12. That said, I doubt that they will expect any proceeds from you - after all, they are funded by those 100 kids. But, perhaps someone with kids in a private school may offer their experience from the client side.
-S. |
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03/12/2007 03:09:43 PM · #7 |
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03/12/2007 03:23:33 PM · #8 |
Ray - I'm pretty sure that Melissa ( ragamuffingirl) had posted in the forums about doing school photos not too long ago (few months maybe). Might want to drop her a note.
Good luck! |
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03/17/2007 01:52:25 PM · #9 |
It's tough to get answers to this question. I too have been trying to get intelligence so that I can move in that direction.
Roughly, the younger the kids the more the parents buy - 80% may buy in K-6. the kids change a lot from year to year, are still momma's little one, etc. Averages vary by region of the country, but high is $35/kid and most average less than $20 a kid.
As you get into middle and high schools the average price/kid drops and the percentage of parents that buy can drop to 30-40%. Do the math on this - just shooting little heads ( as the industry often refers to this) may not be profitable for you. Remember, you need 2 to 4 people there on picture day, a make-up day, order forms, deliver envelopes, etc - $1/ kid is a fair average cost for this.
Next, what does the school want? A CD for the year book? A year book? What format (the big yearbook companies have their own formats for this - you CANNOT make these disks at home, you can't get the software free). One district here puts the kids pics on the school computers, the principle has a blackberry with EVERY kids' pic and name, etc.
H&H Color Lab's EZEvent software (and a $200 scanner they sell) makes this pretty easy - it prints the bar codes for each kid, class, teacher, group shot, etc. You can set up packages - a hundred of them if you want that many - and then the software puts the kids with their packages, the class pic with the right kid, etc. H&H then individually bags each kids' order and sorts them by class or grade or whatever you want. Makes this very easy compared to other methods - and the software is free. They can burn the CDs for the year book companies for $50 or 90 or so. The software can insert the kids from teh makeup days into the right order, etc.
Works for sports leagues too.
Some schools want money - flat is better than a percentage of sales. Some want free class pics for each kid while others (like mine) lets the photog sell that as a seperate thing in feb (class pics are sept/oct) - a 5x7 class pic is $7 here BTW. Cost for that - order form, print, bag for delivery from a pro lab can run $1.25 so there is profit in there. and a lot of work too. wait till you see the box the UPS guy drops off!
Schools want as little disruption to their routine as possible - so shoot all the kids in 1 day. This is where all the help comes in - a wrangler and a photographer of course. a third person to sit at a table and keep the paperwork in order -get it out of sequence with the camera and you will want to skydive without a parachute (guaranteed!). The H&H software works by printing a barcode on a label that you stick to the kids order form and then scan so mix ups can be fixed, but take time - LOTS of time. You may need 2 photogs to get in and out in a day -and then 2 scanners, and perhaps a backup (and back up camera, lights, etc).
To shoot 100 kids will cost, per kid, $1.50 lets say, and 80% buy. A private school is more profitable, so $25/kid is what they spend. It should be doable in 2 or 3 hours of shooting, plus meetings before hand, drop off order forms for every kid (and the time to make them, get them, etc). Then you ahve a couple of hours after shooting to get the order ready, then a few hours when it comes in. Add in 3 hours for a re-take day...that's 7 hours with 2 helpers, so at $7/hour is $100.
sales - 80 @ $25 = $2000
Help $100 (at least)
admin costs $150
CD for year book $50
print costs at 30% (could be more - this is low margin work) $700
Net is $1100.00
You need a one time of the scanner (a backup is HIGHLY recomended). If you only do this one time, then $900.
Got 3 lights (one as backup? strobes with umbrellas is fine)? ($550)
Back drop stand and roll of paper)( $150)
cash drawer, can you take credit cards? Most will probably pay with checks anyway.
For a small school that's not bad, and you're then equipped and experienced to do more - preshcools, day cares, etc.
So what will the school want? 10-20% is not unusual - of the SALES - so that could be $200 to $400....you might LOSE money on the first job if you have to buy lights or a second camera.
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03/17/2007 02:02:37 PM · #10 |
Mrs.Purplefire is a school teacher in the UK. She tells me that the school (state school) does get a percentage of the total money made.
I have no idea how much but this is the same for ANYTHING sold through the school (books, cakes, etc)
The simple answer to you question (for a UK PoV) is yes. The long answer that has all the details that would be useful....well let me ask the school administrator. If I get anything, I'll let you know.
Cheers,
Iain
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03/17/2007 02:17:17 PM · #11 |
Oh one more thing to consider - you should have insurance - business liability - for this work. You may even have to prove to the school you have it - in case a light falls on a kid or they pull the backdrop down on one another, or in some way school property is damaged by you (scratching a floor or doorway or table are the most common claims). Accidents are rare, but do occur. A kid gets hit with a light and you'll be in debtors hell for a LONG time.
Policies can be had for as little as $350/year (zurich), but if you spend about $500 (zurich) you get equipment coverage and lots lots more. If you're a PPA member check with them, they offer coverage to members through Marsh and Hill.
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