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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Question about DPP
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 02/20/2007 02:33:58 PM · #1
When DPP asks if you want to save and image after some change, does it affects the RAW file? I just want to know if this affects my originals.

Thanks a lot!

Ivan
 02/20/2007 02:36:48 PM · #2
i always say yes...if you save it onto your computer then the original image will still be on the card anyway. Just when you try and exit the rogram and it tells you "this image has been andjusted" i click not to asll for that one..

i would say try it with an image that you dont care about and see what happens, i would start it up and see but i dont have it installed on this computer. i thnk you should be ok though.

-Dan
 02/20/2007 02:39:48 PM · #3
If you're wondering about for an entry validation, you can still use it as an original file.
 02/20/2007 02:41:04 PM · #4
It should only be "saving" to the THM file. At least the way I understand it, RAW data is never actually saved, only "edited" at time of display based on the THM settings.

Somebody named Kirbic needs to answer this for sure. Specially since it's actually a Site Council issue.
 02/20/2007 02:41:54 PM · #5
Originally posted by Telehubbie:
If you're wondering about for an entry validation, you can still use it as an original file.


yes, basically I want to know if it is safe to save w/o ruining the original for DPC purposes.

Thanks for the responses!
 02/20/2007 02:58:40 PM · #6
Originally posted by nards656:

Somebody named Kirbic needs to answer this for sure. Specially since it's actually a Site Council issue.


You're absolutely right, it should come from a Site Council member. I hope I didn't overstep any boundaries, but I was just speaking from experience.
 02/20/2007 03:32:18 PM · #7
Thanks everyone and I think this is an official answer to my question:
SC Guidelines
 02/20/2007 03:35:09 PM · #8
Originally posted by Valdo:
Thanks everyone and I think this is an official answer to my question:
SC Guidelines

Well, except that DPP is actually more than a transfer software. It can crop, it can spot edit, etc. I'm personally quite certain that it does no actual editing of the RAW file, but I want an authoritative voice to confirm that, because I don't want to lead you astray.
 02/20/2007 03:37:30 PM · #9
Originally posted by nards656:
Originally posted by Valdo:
Thanks everyone and I think this is an official answer to my question:
SC Guidelines

Well, except that DPP is actually more than a transfer software. It can crop, it can spot edit, etc. I'm personally quite certain that it does no actual editing of the RAW file, but I want an authoritative voice to confirm that, because I don't want to lead you astray.


I sent this question to the SC a few minutes ago before they posted the other thread. I will wait for their answer and I will post it here. If DPP works like bridge then the actual cropping and everything is done in a different file. I will play with it and wait for the official response.

Tnx
 02/20/2007 03:41:35 PM · #10
You can't "edit" a RAW file, it's one of their big advantages and why they're called 'digital negatives'!

Canon's DPP is a powerful pro-level RAW converter, "editor" and it can't do spot editing. There are tutorials at //photoworkshop.com/canon/

The THM is a thumbnail file and can be deleted, it serves no purpose except in the camera.

If you 'edit' the RAW file in DPP and save it you are saving a set of instructions on what you did (not sure where though). If you move the file to a different directory the 'edits' are lost and do not follow the file.
 02/20/2007 04:53:56 PM · #11
The short answer is, it will not invalidate a RAW original.
The long answer is, when you save from DPP, you're saving to another image format, like JPEG or TIFF. The data in the RAW file is not edited. Metadata in the RAW file may be written to, but because at this writing there are no programs that actually manipulate RAW data and re-save it as RAW (it doesn't make much sense to do so) we can still accept RAW files as originals even with the transfer or conversion software's stamp on them.
02/20/2007 05:09:44 PM · #12
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Canon's DPP is a powerful pro-level RAW converter, "editor" and it can't do spot editing. There are tutorials at //photoworkshop.com/canon/

I think you mean CAN do spot editing??? Please reference the "Stamp Tool."
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

If you 'edit' the RAW file in DPP and save it you are saving a set of instructions on what you did (not sure where though). If you move the file to a different directory the 'edits' are lost and do not follow the file.

I believe it actually saves them to the RAW file itself, just not as part of the EXIF.

I'm not a genius regarding this, that's why I'm not trying to be authoritative, but I'm pretty sure there are actual modifications made to the RAW file, just none to the actual sensor data.

Originally posted by kirbic:
The long answer is, when you save from DPP, you're saving to another image format, like JPEG or TIFF.
That's not always true, is it? I'm almost 100% certain there is a menu selection to "Save" that has nothing to do with exporting to a different file format. What does that save to? Is it "snapshotting" the current RAW adjustments?

I think what WE need to hear from SC is that DPP CANNOT modify a RAW file in such a fashion to make it invalid for verification. Otherwise, we need to know specifically what we can or cannot do. Thanks for an effort at that, Kirbic, but I think there's still a minor "hole" in the response.

Message edited by author 2007-02-20 17:10:06.
 02/20/2007 05:13:08 PM · #13
Originally posted by nards656:

I think what WE need to hear from SC is that DPP CANNOT modify a RAW file in such a fashion to make it invalid for verification. Otherwise, we need to know specifically what we can or cannot do. Thanks for an effort at that, Kirbic, but I think there's still a minor "hole" in the response.


As far as we know, DPP cannot write back to the RAW image data (nor can any other commercial software to our knowledge, at this writing. What DPP may be able to do is to write to the RAW file, saving the conversion settings in metadata. This will not affect the validity of the RAW file as an original.

Edit to add:
there are three scenarios that conversion software uses to track settings for RAW conversions:
1.) Conversion settings written to metadata within the RAW file. If this strategy is used, the RAW file can be copied ofr moved anywhere and the settins are still available.
2.) Conversion settings stored in a separate "sidecar" file. Adobe Camera RAW uses this strategy, you'll see a .XMP file appear for every file you convert. The XMP file carries the conversion settings. The XMP and CRW (or CR2) file must be kept together, or the settings are lost.
3.) Store the settings in a single file separate from the image files. I'm not aware of any current software using this strategy. The software must be aware when files are moved if settings are to be retained.

Message edited by author 2007-02-20 17:18:31.
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