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02/10/2007 04:03:36 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Judi:
If you are really worried about it then do what I do. If I recognise an image and I am 99% sure it belongs to a particular member...then I usually don't vote on it. If I have been shown that image prior to the challenge...I will tell the person (before they show me) that I will NOT be voting on that image. I will sometimes leave a comment on images I come across in a challenge...saying that this must be a (insert name) image but I don't vote on it.
With that being said there are times I will vote on recognised images...but usually only when it is a Self Portrait type challenge. |
You know, that presents an interesting quandary. Excepting the issue of self portraits, most of the time when we are able to "recognize" a shooter from their work it is because we LIKE the work and have taken the time to study it; it has left an impression, over a long period of time.
So project what you're saying over the community as a whole: if everyone who recognized a shooter recused themselves from voting on that image, we'd basically be removing from voting a significant portion of the group that LIKES that photographer's work, while leaving intact the rest of the voters.
See what I mean? Taken to extremes, this would lead to the anomaly of our best, most recognizable-by-style photographers no longer receiving a representative set of votes from the community as a whole. Of course, it'll never GO that far, and it can be argued that the "non recognition" pool is a truly neutral one and the image wills core what it deserves regardless, but....
It's food for thought.
R.
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02/10/2007 04:07:13 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
You know, that presents an interesting quandary. Excepting the issue of self portraits, most of the time when we are able to "recognize" a shooter from their work it is because we LIKE the work and have taken the time to study it; it has left an impression, over a long period of time.
So project what you're saying over the community as a whole: if everyone who recognized a shooter recused themselves from voting on that image, we'd basically be removing from voting a significant portion of the group that LIKES that photographer's work, while leaving intact the rest of the voters.
See what I mean? Taken to extremes, this would lead to the anomaly of our best, most recognizable-by-style photographers no longer receiving a representative set of votes from the community as a whole. Of course, it'll never GO that far, and it can be argued that the "non recognition" pool is a truly neutral one and the image wills core what it deserves regardless, but....
It's food for thought.
R. |
Yes...I can understand that. But you must understand my choice to do so. It removes the suspicion of any ghosting on my part!!! I can't be accused of dummying the voting procedures and altering the outcome of any challenges. Even though I feel that in doing so is withholding a vote that may or may not have an effect on the outcome. So realistically, whichever way you go, is a catch 22 situation.
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02/10/2007 04:44:07 PM · #28 |
Okay, I admit I have gone grumble grumble when I've seen comments that specify the reason for the ten to a pic as being the profilic model/photographer..
I don't think this is too widespread an issue though..ppl are usually honest voters and the majority isn't too active too recognize each and every time.. |
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02/10/2007 05:24:29 PM · #29 |
| Tend to agree with posthumous. A non-issue for me, I'm not a fan type person, just looking for photos I really really like for some reason or other. However, I do like the suggestion of a contest of "in the style of," and had thought of something on the order of let each choose a site photographer and do something representative of his or her style or of her or his personna, though I'm not sure how this would work, i.e. would the title indicate the photog in question, or would we make the commenter guess? |
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02/10/2007 06:07:47 PM · #30 |
I don't try to guess but there are some that are easier to recognise then others - just the way it is. So what; I like what I like and some are more consistent at producing images that appeal to me. On the other hand, I keep picking favs from people I have not before. It also changes by challenge - the best of's, I would be able to guess a better percentage then other challenges but I don't see what that proves.
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02/10/2007 06:26:05 PM · #31 |
Yes well some of us lack models where we live don't we?
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02/10/2007 06:29:02 PM · #32 |
I understand what Jon is talking about. For me, the first time I saw a certain picture, "Wow, that's nice." Then the same thing a second time, "once again nice work." and by the fifth or sixth time, "OK, I've seen that before, move on to the next one."
Not to take anything away from those photographers or their pictures, but I'd like to see what else they can do. |
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02/10/2007 06:42:56 PM · #33 |
That's it! It is settled! ... Next Self Portrait Challenge I am gonna take a picture of my foot so I can't be accused of begging for votes with my handsome face!
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02/10/2007 07:29:52 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Greetmir:
That's it! It is settled! ... Next Self Portrait Challenge I am gonna take a picture of my foot so I can't be accused of begging for votes with my handsome face! |
You mean those other's weren't your foot already? Damn, I thought I had it figured out. ;-) |
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02/10/2007 07:44:25 PM · #35 |
We all have the power to simply vote the picture down. If we are talking ribbon range, it doesn't take too many votes of 4- to put it out of contention.
If you don't like that Alex has been going to his deer park a lot, vote it low. (I'm only picking on Alex as we have been WPL teammates and I'm sure he can take it.) If you think I've gone to the beach too many times, vote it low as well. Right now, either people a) don't care about repeats or obvious styles and vote them up because they are excellent pictures (meaning the OP is in the minority and should take that into consideration) or b) people aren't exercising their voting power.
Like the stock market, DPC voting is "efficient". What works will work, what doesn't won't. Currently styles work. It doesn't mean they always have to.
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02/11/2007 03:49:36 AM · #36 |
HA!!! won't recognize my schooldays entry!
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02/11/2007 04:27:50 AM · #37 |
ok, i have to say this, and maybe i'm being a little nit picky and will be torn apart by those who do not agree, but i do not mean this to be mean at all. i see this site as a place to learn and further your photographic skills...as it has everyone that's participated. but i've noticed quite a few people that apparently have a fan club going around here that enter photos of themselves on a regular basis, or of certain things that they are known for, and i really find that to be rediculous. is it just me? when i'm voting on a picture, and i know without a shadow of a doubt whos photo that is...i find that unfair, mainly because i've seen pictures w/ 6+ scores in the middle of unbelievably outstanding pictures in the high ratings because of who it is or who they are known by.
once again, i do not mean this to offend. but where the anonymity in the voting if you set your photo up with the hopes to get a higher score b/c your fans know you, or recognize your overly-used prop / backdrop/ etc?
i guess the way i see it is that's not a way to grow as a photographer, but a way to play the statistics game, but is that fair? i'm not griping b/c i think my photos are better, that's not the issue.
i just think it's great that Pedro, one of my favorite photographers on this site, thinks he sold out for his Nude ribbon winner, when all he did was take a subject and make her look good (she already looked good, but you know what i mean). that's not selling out at all to me. putting yourself in multiple challenges as a self portrait, or putting a prop / background in that makes a lot of people know who you for that, that's selling out to me. i see that as a lack of originality. i have a lot of respect for everyone on this site, it's just i've seen this going on over and over again, and it really struck a wrong chord with me.
i was just wondering if anyone else was bothered by this. self portraits have their place, they're artistic...they're beautiful, and challenging. but overuse for the sole purpose (as it seems) to get a higher score really gets to me.
i hope i haven't offended, for this is just my opinion. offending is not my goal
What a load of old nonsense!
Sorry - you just sound bitter. Good photographers like good painters have their own distinct style. Bad ones too if you can pick out the odd whiterook pic! Don't take it all so seriously and if you recognise a great picture by the subject or actual model be a... what do you call it? Yes, a troll and give it 1!
It's only a game. |
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02/11/2007 04:42:49 AM · #38 |
I guess I see DPC in a slightly different light, and while some may also feel the way I do, this is not intended to come across as the way everyone should think here. It is just my humble two cents.
This is a contest site, and while I have seen this topic approached from time to time, DPC has other deeper purposes to me. While the hope for a ribbon, honorable mention, top ten, etc - as many profile bio checklists would indicate - my real reason for being here is twofold.
1. Knowledge - as a relatively new photog myself (4 years), I gain appreciation from seeing the work of others, especially when some (many who have posted here) have a definite/clear expertise and submit similar works. I have found myself experimenting with similar subjects and environments based on what I have seen them do. Certainly I may recognize some work before voting is over, but many times, I have also been quite surprised to find the work belonged to another photog. Don't get me wrong, I hit the update button as much as anyone, and I secretly hope to achieve some color along the left hand side of my profile, but I also try not to allow any final score or placement of my work to be a reflection of my worth in comparison to anyone else. I am here to learn. Maybe one day I may be able to offer some valuable tidbits of experience and expertise.
2. Community - the DPC forums have taught me more than any challenge has to date. The community we have here, from the Admins to the SC to the Members in general, have contributed more to my growth than any score I have achieved. While I admire those who continually ribbon or place high in the challenges, I remind myself these are virtual accolades. DPC's true value (IMHO) comes from the interaction of its members and their willingness to share their skills, comments and feedback with us all. Scores and accolades are just the gravy. |
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02/11/2007 10:52:38 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by bood:
ok, i have to say this, and maybe i'm being a little nit picky and will be torn apart by those who do not agree, but i do not mean this to be mean at all. i see this site as a place to learn and further your photographic skills...as it has everyone that's participated. but i've noticed quite a few people that apparently have a fan club going around here that enter photos of themselves on a regular basis, or of certain things that they are known for, and i really find that to be rediculous. is it just me? when i'm voting on a picture, and i know without a shadow of a doubt whos photo that is...i find that unfair, mainly because i've seen pictures w/ 6+ scores in the middle of unbelievably outstanding pictures in the high ratings because of who it is or who they are known by.
once again, i do not mean this to offend. but where the anonymity in the voting if you set your photo up with the hopes to get a higher score b/c your fans know you, or recognize your overly-used prop / backdrop/ etc?
i guess the way i see it is that's not a way to grow as a photographer, but a way to play the statistics game, but is that fair? i'm not griping b/c i think my photos are better, that's not the issue.
i just think it's great that Pedro, one of my favorite photographers on this site, thinks he sold out for his Nude ribbon winner, when all he did was take a subject and make her look good (she already looked good, but you know what i mean). that's not selling out at all to me. putting yourself in multiple challenges as a self portrait, or putting a prop / background in that makes a lot of people know who you for that, that's selling out to me. i see that as a lack of originality. i have a lot of respect for everyone on this site, it's just i've seen this going on over and over again, and it really struck a wrong chord with me.
i was just wondering if anyone else was bothered by this. self portraits have their place, they're artistic...they're beautiful, and challenging. but overuse for the sole purpose (as it seems) to get a higher score really gets to me.
i hope i haven't offended, for this is just my opinion. offending is not my goal
What a load of old nonsense!
Sorry - you just sound bitter. Good photographers like good painters have their own distinct style. Bad ones too if you can pick out the odd whiterook pic! Don't take it all so seriously and if you recognise a great picture by the subject or actual model be a... what do you call it? Yes, a troll and give it 1!
It's only a game. |
excuse me, but i already stated that i vote on content. i do not vote on personal bias, so no trolling going on here.
pardon me for stating an opinion. sheesh. |
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02/11/2007 12:15:48 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
Okay, I admit I have gone grumble grumble when I've seen comments that specify the reason for the ten to a pic as being the profilic model/photographer...
I don't think this is too widespread an issue though..ppl are usually honest voters and the majority isn't too active too recognize each and every time.. |
Can you show an example of this? I've seen plenty of comments identifying a photographer (I get a lot of those myself when I enter shots from "my" marsh) but I can't recall ever seeing one that baldly states "Hi Joe! You're a great photographer, I'm giving you a 10!" or words to that effect...
R.
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02/11/2007 01:11:19 PM · #41 |
Absolutely not a concern. DPC voters are notorious for being fickle and they are so inconsistant that it is difficult to predict any sort of voting pattern. Even the very best of DPC photogs have some stinkers in their portfolio according to the voters.
That said, I seem to have stumbled on the formula for consistantly mediocre scores! |
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02/11/2007 01:38:25 PM · #42 |
i agree that it all evens out in the end. i was never saying that a ribbon winner won b/c of a fan club. if it was taken that way, i'm sorry. it's a game, a contest, and one that is voted on by the people, so you have to put out a photo that you believe will be liked the most by the highest majority of the people, if you're doing it for that reason. maybe sometimes it'll also be a photo style you like, and will please the masses, then i suppose that would be the great feeling ;)
i appreciate all the input. i never was really pissed off or anything, just something that got me thinking "wow, this is somewhat annoying...oh well, it's well composed and techcnically well, 6 it is." i'm over it, just wanted to know if anyone else shared my thoughts.
good luck with your submissions.:D:D:D |
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02/11/2007 01:51:15 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
Okay, I admit I have gone grumble grumble when I've seen comments that specify the reason for the ten to a pic as being the profilic model/photographer...
I don't think this is too widespread an issue though..ppl are usually honest voters and the majority isn't too active too recognize each and every time.. |
Can you show an example of this? I've seen plenty of comments identifying a photographer (I get a lot of those myself when I enter shots from "my" marsh) but I can't recall ever seeing one that baldly states "Hi Joe! You're a great photographer, I'm giving you a 10!" or words to that effect...
R. |
This doesn't quite fit the bill, but it's close ("the bit L" is an Icelandic phrase meaning "Larus"), and certainly evidences a little hero worship. Larus Lord knows I've made similar comments when I thought a photo was  jjbeguin's:
this is amazing. judging from the lighting and the overall greatness of this image, i would have to say this is a 10. could it be the bit L coming out for another ribbon? :D very nice job. this type of image really motivates me to do better. 10
oh wait... it's by the O.P.!! Oops...
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02/11/2007 01:57:31 PM · #44 |
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02/11/2007 02:06:00 PM · #45 |
Well, I got three references to  Scalvert on my last entry. And, it won the Yellow! Maybe this isn't such a bad thing. All I have to do is pretend to be someone else for the rest of the challenges I enter!
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02/11/2007 02:15:39 PM · #46 |
My Harsh Environments image recieved many comments thinking it was Joeys. And 4th place wasnt too bad.
Message edited by author 2007-02-11 14:17:07. |
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02/11/2007 02:16:32 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by EBJones:
Well, I got three references to Scalvert on my last entry. |
Hmmm... I did get ANY. What's your secret? |
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02/11/2007 02:23:47 PM · #48 |
Sigh. Nobody even thinks I'm me, let alone someone else. I'm gonna go sit in the corner and pout....
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02/11/2007 02:24:55 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Sigh. Nobody even thinks I'm me, let alone someone else. I'm gonna go sit in the corner and pout.... |
Hey, Deb? I've MET you can I can testify you are definitely you. Does that help?
R.
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02/11/2007 02:27:29 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by EBJones:
Well, I got three references to Scalvert on my last entry. |
Hmmm... I did get ANY. What's your secret? |
Well. . . I have this new hat that I wear whenever I start taking pictures.  |
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