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 02/09/2007 03:26:07 PM · #1
i was asked at the last minute to do group photos of the local chapter of Phi Mu sorority on my campus, and i'm not very happy with the turnout, but it's what they were looking for. But still, i want to improve. First off, i'm mainly into single portrait photography and have focused all my knowledge on that, but i am getting more into group work and was wondering if you all could check somethings out for me.

i sent my Sigma 18-50mm EX DC f/2.8 lens back for repair b/c some of you told me on here it seemed to have a lens alignment problem...

//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=465669&highlight=alignment

well, i got it back and here's my problem.



i know now that my problem was that i was shooting in shutter priority mode, so that put my aperture at 2.8 but would that account for THAT much blurryness, especially on the left side, where the problem was in the past as well? i was using my sigma 500DG Super flash as well.

i'm very curious what mode most of you shoot in for instances such as this.

here are the settings:

aperture : 2.8
ISO 400
shutter 1/160th

any tips or help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks so much
02/09/2007 03:30:34 PM · #2
I shoot av mode 99% of the time. As for your problem with softness at the edge - what was the focal length? was it wide open at 18?

Edit to add - I would have used f8 for this shot


Message edited by author 2007-02-09 15:33:19.
 02/09/2007 03:31:18 PM · #3
f2.8 is pretty narrow but it should be a slice through of correctly focused ..
what were you mm ? you should beable to find your hyperfocal for F2.8 & see if you were close
(for a group like that i would have been f8 ... )
02/09/2007 03:32:49 PM · #4
F2.8 is very narrow for a group photo.

this thread might help you a bit (not exactly the same situations, but the same problem)

//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=540638
 02/09/2007 04:02:26 PM · #5
As soon as my flash becomes the "primary source of light", I switch from Av mode to Manual mode where I can manually set the shutter speed that I want as well as the aperture to control the depth of field.

If my flash is only playing the role of "fill flash" then Av works perfectly because the camera sees the ambient light and sets an appropriate shutter speed.

But in this case, I'm guessing ambient lighting was not what you wanted and that you wanted the flash to illuminate the people. So that's why I'm suggesting the switch to manual mode and then dialing in at least f/5.6 and probably f/8 would be better for a group.

Remember this when shooting groups... it's NOT JUST the distance from the camera to the person in the front row - it's ALSO the distance from the camera to the person in the back row at the far left or far right that you need to have in focus. And the bigger the group, the longer than far left or far right "diagonal distance" becomes. That's why I'm suggestion f/8.

Message edited by author 2007-02-09 16:02:50.
 02/09/2007 04:41:08 PM · #6
to answer your questions, this was taken at 23mm

here's a link to the 4mb unedited JPG

//www.jrowephotography.com/images/testfull.jpg

thank you all so much. f/8 huh, i'll definitely keep that in mind

:D

much appreciated
 02/09/2007 06:00:17 PM · #7
wow that sucks. I have problems with getting groups in focus too. its usually the people on the very edge of the frame that become less focused..but its usually not so terrible once the image has been sharpened...it is very slight.

I shoot groups with 1/50 or 1/60 at f6.7 or f7.3..depending on the lighting in the venue. ISO is 400. Sometimes the camera just wants to focus on the background. Drives me nuts!

It looks like your camera focused to the far right of the image. But even then, nothing seems to be extremely sharp. Did you take multiple shots? if so, do you have another shot that has a better focal point?

I will take multiple shots of each group, knowing that a few will be blurry all over because the camera's autofocus likes to get loopy on me. And because someone is always closing their eyes. I cross my fingers and hope for the best. Group shots are my most challenging in a technical sense.
 02/09/2007 11:45:58 PM · #8
Hmmm... well, first of all, 23mm is an awfully wide angle to be using for portraits, however, being that wide *should* have given you greater depth of field! At 23mm, if you focused 10 feet away, you should have had 6 feet worth of in focus area. At 6 feet, it slims down to just 2 feet of DOF, but your picture looks far worse than that. So that makes me think it's not just a DOF problem. It makes me wonder if the lens isn't messed up? Or maybe the sensor isn't parallel?!?

What if you pick a wall that has a pattern on it (such as a brick wall) and put your camera straight at it (don't angle the camera), and shoot wide open? You should see the CENTER in focus and the left and right edges go out of focus. But I'm guessing (based on the image you posted) that the left side will go out of focus first and that the most in-focus area will be on the right.

Anyway, give it a try and let us know what you find out.

Also, here are a couple of useful links:

Online depth of field calculator
Testing Lens Focusing Accuracy
 02/09/2007 11:55:21 PM · #9
Well, the answer is so simple.

The two PHI MU's in question were drunk, and moved during the shot.

Thanks gawd that they weren't DELTA ZETA'S, the whole bunch would of been out of focus.
 02/10/2007 12:02:09 AM · #10
Originally posted by grigrigirl:
someone is always closing their eyes.


Here's a trick I learned from the pro photographer at my agency: tell everyone to close their eyes and then open them when you count to 3. Shoot at 3 1/2.

I also tell people to smile on 3 and set my camera to burst mode. I press the shutter at 2 and hold it until 4 (I don't say 4, though!). I rarely get the best smiles at exactly 3.
 04/15/2007 11:57:49 PM · #11
Set camera at 18-20 feet from subject.
Use 1/60 at F11.
Manual focus on middle person, second row.
Set strobe to output f11
Use 65 - 75mm lens
Don't use autofocus, manual focus only
Take at least 2 shots of every group
Make sure camera is "square" with the group.
Results: sharp, properly exposed groups every time.

.
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