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02/08/2007 11:07:14 PM · #26
Originally posted by mpeters:

Crayon,
I guess more to your original post...

Are you asking if people today are less gullible, but more easily fooled with technology? Or, 2000 years ago, people were less advanced(although that is a dangerous assumption) so therefore more susceptible to deception???


thanks for sticking on topic. my personal perception is, the way humans choose to believe something or not, is largely based on the "prove-it" mentality concept. taking this further, depending on the time or era, people have entirely different conditions/criteria to base their proving methods. the methods we have today to prove something differs largely with how people do it in the past. the more "lie detectors" we have in our arsenal, the more skeptical we are. we expect something to go PASS through all the tests before we acknowledge it. The rules get tighter as we advances.

Originally posted by mpeters:

I propose that hoaxes and fakes from any era are eventually exposed. It only takes time, and exposure doesn't necessarily happen right away.

would you be brave enough to destroy the pillar used by millions for support (read super-dave's post above) even though you finally uncovered it as a fake? this is indeed one question many has decided to avoid. But then again, this is another topic altogether.
02/08/2007 11:07:46 PM · #27
I don't think a messenger of God would immediately set up www.messagefromgod.com or would he/she go on CNN proclaiming I am the messenger ...

I would think our Creator would know our nature and know that "as a whole" we would dismiss the messenger. I think rather God would chose to have that messenger interact at a more personal level.

Even then, I don't think the messenger would proclaim I am the messenger...

Message edited by author 2007-02-08 23:10:46.
02/08/2007 11:10:40 PM · #28
All of the societies where messengers came were at the peak of their technological capacities. They were what we are today, arrogant enough in believing we've reached a high in science and what not..
There were a few who believed and quite a few who didn't.. Same thing here too.. It's stupid too imagine we're some how better than those ppl because they're exactly what we are... human..
Everyone needs some spiritualness now and then..Imo lack of religiousness is the easiest way to live and most ppl I know don't believe in god.. but even they end believing in the strangest spiritual stuff which frankly makes me giggle because they try so hard to be nonchalant abt the extra effort..

Message edited by author 2007-02-08 23:17:34.
02/08/2007 11:13:56 PM · #29
People will believe what they want to be the truth. I think some people are afraid to not beleive, just in case. If you asked me if i believe in God, the answere is no. If someone showed up today claiming to be christ, jesus, god or whomever....I would say they are either crazy or it's a hoax. I don't care what mystical powers they have. I've seen lots of things on TV that I can't explain, but I don't feel that I need to worship it or pray to it.

One thing that I've always wondered....How could anyone worship, pray to and turn thier life over to a "God" that would let such terrible things happen to innocent people day in and day out all over the world. I know, I know.....God works in mysterious ways, God is testing us, God needed another angel.................. I understand that all these answeres make some people feel better but if you ask me, it's only the people who are afraid to face the truth. Bad things happen.....bad people hurt good people. Natural disasters kill thousands every year.
In the end, we die. We go to the bottom of the food chain and a new cycle begins. I'm okay with that!!!!!!!
02/08/2007 11:17:07 PM · #30
Originally posted by crayon:

my personal perception is, the way humans choose to believe something or not, is largely based on the "prove-it" mentality concept. taking this further, depending on the time or era, people have entirely different conditions/criteria to base their proving methods. the methods we have today to prove something differs largely with how people do it in the past. the more "lie detectors" we have in our arsenal, the more skeptical we are. we expect something to go PASS through all the tests before we acknowledge it. The rules get tighter as we advances.


Some people are going to have a "'prove-it' mentality" and others are not with every level of proof required in between. I don't believe this has significantly changed throughout history.
02/08/2007 11:17:10 PM · #31
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

I don't think a messenger of God would immediately set up www.messagefromgod.com or would he/she go on CNN proclaiming I am the messenger ...

but of course, that is how it usually starts with - small groups.
for example, terrorist organizations (sorry for lack of better, more popular example). if you could begin to convince a few, that few will help convince more. it's usually some sort of chain-reaction.
02/08/2007 11:17:26 PM · #32
Originally posted by renegade1966:


In the end, we die. We go to the bottom of the food chain and a new cycle begins. I'm okay with that!!!!!!!


amen
02/08/2007 11:20:40 PM · #33
It will happen someday. I think he is called the Anti-Christ.
02/08/2007 11:21:01 PM · #34
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:

All of the societies where messengers came were at the peak of their technological capacities. They were what we are today, arrogant enough in believing we've reached a high in science and what not..


That is such a good point. 2,000 years from now, we will look even less technological to our progeny than our ancestors from 2,000 years ago look to us.

Message edited by author 2007-02-08 23:25:27.
02/08/2007 11:21:05 PM · #35
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:

Some people are going to have a "'prove-it' mentality" and others are not with every level of proof required in between. I don't believe this has significantly changed throughout history.

in the news, we often hear of people who became victims of scams - more often than not, the scams sounded really stupid, and you sometimes go "only a moron would believe that!" when you read about what the scam-artists were trying to sell, but yet, some people believed it. what do you think this could happen?
02/08/2007 11:25:01 PM · #36
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:

All of the societies where messengers came were at the peak of their technological capacities. They were what we are today, arrogant enough in believing we've reached a high in science and what not..


That is such a good point. 2,000 years from now, we will look even less technological to our progeny as our ancestors from 2,000 years ago look to us.


yes, this actually reinforces my very first post for this thread, and i would like to raise these questions:
- if a "messenger of god" (someone who claims) appears today, what would happen?
- if a "messenger of god" appears 2000 years in the past, what would happen (but isn't that history, today?)
- how can we prove something using today's technology (or future's) to prove history, when almost all hard evidence no longer exist?
02/08/2007 11:25:26 PM · #37
it would be difficult for someone to prove they are who they say they are... just watch bubba ho-tep
02/08/2007 11:32:24 PM · #38
You can't PROVE anything...

Let me give you an example crayon:

If you were to have access to a time machine and could go back to the moment Jesus was born, could you prove he was the son of God?

IF you could also witness the crucifixion, could you prove he died for the sins of humanity?

Even as advanced as we are over the people that existed in Jesus' time. We could not prove anything. I seriously doubt any science 2000 years from now will be able to prove/disprove the existence of God.

But, then again, there wouldn't be much need for faith, if it could be proven would there?
02/08/2007 11:48:16 PM · #39
we forget to look at religion as a metephor - all religions are true. Anyone read Joseph Campbell?
02/08/2007 11:53:15 PM · #40
Originally posted by crayon:

with all our technological capabilities to create magic, and all the hoaxes and scams in our modern world, what is your opinion, or rather, what do you think would happen, if someone claims to be god's messenger appeared today? imagine also, him performing some neat abilities or power.

next, what difference does it make, if that same person existed way back in the past? are people in the past more vulnerable?


It happens all the time, actually. They get sent to psychiatrists, or if they're really slick they become cult leaders.
02/08/2007 11:53:30 PM · #41
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:


Even then, I don't think the messenger would proclaim I am the messenger...


Jesus plainly stated that he was God's son even though several people still dispised Him. i think God would be just as upfront today as he was then. (sorry, i'm just trying to feed your conversation...)
02/08/2007 11:54:03 PM · #42
Originally posted by dsterner:

we forget to look at religion as a metephor - all religions are true. Anyone read Joseph Campbell?


A college friend once said, "God doesn't care what long distance carrier you use, just so long as you remember to call home."
02/08/2007 11:55:11 PM · #43
indeed
02/09/2007 12:22:43 AM · #44
Originally posted by Rebecca:

Originally posted by crayon:

with all our technological capabilities to create magic, and all the hoaxes and scams in our modern world, what is your opinion, or rather, what do you think would happen, if someone claims to be god's messenger appeared today? imagine also, him performing some neat abilities or power.

next, what difference does it make, if that same person existed way back in the past? are people in the past more vulnerable?


It happens all the time, actually. They get sent to psychiatrists, or if they're really slick they become cult leaders.


Thanks Rebecca - so how did those ones in the past made it so successfully? they aren't just cult leaders, they are religious leaders! now the next question to ponder, folks;

if religion wasn't "passed down" by our parents or friends, would you have one?"
02/09/2007 12:28:22 AM · #45
Originally posted by crayon:


if religion wasn't "passed down" by our parents or friends, would you have one?"


Who knows? I tend to think mine is based on convictions, but I know it is influenced.

Her mom is an atheist (or was).
02/09/2007 12:59:53 AM · #46
If he could walk into a hospital and everyone will be healed at once I suppose he will find many folowers

Message edited by author 2007-02-09 01:00:56.
02/09/2007 01:10:57 AM · #47
Originally posted by Oded:

If he could walk into a hospital and everyone will be healed at once I suppose he will find many folowers

well it could be black magic, lol! or it could be advanced science. or maybe just a large scale illusion. but the point is, is that all it takes to convince, especially in this modern day?

Message edited by author 2007-02-09 01:12:18.
02/09/2007 01:39:28 AM · #48
Originally posted by crayon:

Originally posted by Oded:

If he could walk into a hospital and everyone will be healed at once I suppose he will find many folowers

well it could be black magic, lol! or it could be advanced science. or maybe just a large scale illusion. but the point is, is that all it takes to convince, especially in this modern day?


If you have a man in your life tell you he loves you, how are you convinced? This isn't a sarcastic question. I'm serious. Answer for me, and then ask yourself if your own questions in the post could be asked about your own answer.

Nothing in this world is failsafe. All can be questioned. It does not mean, however, that truth does not exist.
02/09/2007 01:47:39 AM · #49
Originally posted by crayon:


if religion wasn't "passed down" by our parents or friends, would you have one?"


dunno dunno..Most of the ppl I know who don't have any religious convictions have semi religious parents so really can't say..
I wasn't religious the first 16 years of my life.. I am now.. dunno how much input other ppl had in that..my parents are very surprised to say the least..

I think cult leaders diffrentiate from religious leaders because religious leaders seem to be reaffirming the same ideas esentially.. Belief in God, not lying, cheating, all that jazz.. Ask anyone.. they will know whats 'good'.. that'll never change.. no matter how much filth ppl get used to they know it's dirty.. cult leaders are following that very thin line and asking their followers to do things that a person won't naturally believe to be the 'good'.. It takes persuation for ppl to integrate those ideas into their ideology.. For both leaders the first people to get involved are the ones rejected by society or those who reject society..

You don't need much of the walking on water stuff when people are so willing to believe in the first place... anything to get them feeling a certain way..

eh.. I don't think I make sense up there..
02/09/2007 01:50:16 AM · #50
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

If you have a man in your life tell you he loves you, how are you convinced? This isn't a sarcastic question. I'm serious. Answer for me, and then ask yourself if your own questions in the post could be asked about your own answer.


If he's not an immediate family member, i might think he's gay, and i'll tell him i'm straight. if it's a girl, i will judge (in not-so-nice term, test?) from her actions. dont we all do that? but if comes along a person claiming to be the messenger from god, i'm not sure...

you see, the difference is, someone who loves you wont ask you to do things his/her way, unlike someone who claims to be god's messenger, because he ask that you follow his ways and do things. that's what separates my example, with what you just said about a loving man (or woman, which i preferred).



Message edited by author 2007-02-09 02:01:00.
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