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02/07/2007 02:01:48 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by Ristyz:
Now where in my post did it say I was in favor of killing them? I did mention that we (my parents at the time, I lived elsewhere then) had a problematic one but that it actually created a bigger problem when it was exterminated. Lesson learned.
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Sorry, I didn't mean to infer that YOU favoured killing them. I should have separated the comments I was making directly to your quotes from the ones I was making as a general response to the thread :) |
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02/07/2007 02:22:47 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by ellamay:
It's ignorance like this that threatened the wolf population.
if we had not killed all the wolves, we would have a natural predator left to manage the coyotes.
We humans are so smart. |
Yup, we'll just deal with what's bothering us right now by killing it off then complain about the overrun of something else.
Oops, we killed all the predators of the new threat. |
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02/07/2007 02:36:16 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by Ristyz:
Now where in my post did it say I was in favor of killing them? I did mention that we (my parents at the time, I lived elsewhere then) had a problematic one but that it actually created a bigger problem when it was exterminated. Lesson learned.
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Sorry, I didn't mean to infer that YOU favoured killing them. I should have separated the comments I was making directly to your quotes from the ones I was making as a general response to the thread :) |
Sorry to you too... had my hackles up! Easy to do when sorta defending both sides of the story. Cheers! |
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02/07/2007 03:05:59 AM · #29 |
Apparently the coyote population is on rise in the Texas' hill country however I've yet to see one venture near the house. The thing is we have a high concentration of white tail deer in the area, which I believe is the most in the world so that's probably keeping the coyote from looking for alternative food sources. Naturally the people here want to kill the deer because they can't maintain pretty gardens since the deer will eat the flowers. Nice!
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02/07/2007 03:09:19 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by ellamay:
It's ignorance like this that threatened the wolf population.
if we had not killed all the wolves, we would have a natural predator left to manage the coyotes.
We humans are so smart. |
Yup, we'll just deal with what's bothering us right now by killing it off then complain about the overrun of something else.
Oops, we killed all the predators of the new threat. |
Or Oops, we killed all the prey of one of the local predators. Better kill those predators now since they're going after new prey, the local livestock. |
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02/07/2007 03:10:31 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by Shecoya:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
[quote=BradP] So, if mice or rats invaded your house, you wouldn't set out traps or call an exterminator?
What about insects? Why should insects be any different from animals? Better not swat any flies or mosquitoes, or step on any ants.
How about germs? Don't they have rights too? Better throw out that disinfectant spray and for God's sake, stop showering and brushing your teeth, just think of all the innocent bacteria... |
Ive used and advocate the use of live traps for mice/rats.
I dont kill bugs in my house I catch them and put them outside.. yes even spiders although they terrify me.
I do kill mosquito's because i'm allergic to them and they threaten my health. I do try to avoid ants or other wee bugs / insects when outside.. if i see them I try to avoid them.
Germs can make me sick.. I try to keep my house hands life germ free but i'm not a fanatic about it... I think you are taking it to extremes here.. and I think Brads question was valid. What does give a coyote less of a right to live here than we have? In alot of situations now their habitat has been encrouched on.. they are just trying to get by and do what they do.. same as us. Basic needs.. food / water. The driving force for all creatures. |
I don't have a problem with coyotes in general and I don't advocate killing them indiscriminately. When they start threatening my livelihood, then that's going to take priority over the coyote. That really only happens when they are overpopulated for their regular food source (rats, mice, rabbits etc).
I am just continuing the same reasoning over it's logical progression. What gives you more of a right to exist than a mosquito? All she's trying to do is get by in her short life.
Is it just the cute creatures that deserve to live?
How do you decide that hey, I'm gonna kill mosquitoes, but coyotes are just dandy?
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02/07/2007 04:35:27 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Is it just the cute creatures that deserve to live?
How do you decide that hey, I'm gonna kill mosquitoes, but coyotes are just dandy? |
Oh I totally got where you were coming from.. just think you were taking it to extremes... and mosquitos.. i mentioned for me pose a health risk because of my allergy. (if there are too many around) But working at the wildlife center we rehab everything from snakes, bats and salamanders to raptors, songbirds, coyote, fox and bears.. its not just the typical cute critters.
I get your point but there again.. I go out of my way to not harm any bugs / insects etc.. personal choice perhaps a bit extreme but its how I work .. and it works for me.
Thank you for not advocating killing coyotes indiscriminately.. My original rational for this thread was to educate people on how coyotes are often blamed for things that they often arent guilty for. There are many misconceptions out in the world and people have trigger reactions and mass label .. which if not challenged leads to tunnel vision and actions. I hope you get that as well. |
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02/07/2007 07:02:34 AM · #33 |
Well I think it is great that people can quote all these things that say coyotes don't do this and they don't do that and they rarely do this or that and only under extreme circumstances will they do this or that. I live in a farm community. My property is surrounded by farms. Coyote (as well as the rest of the wildlife in the area) use the pass next to my yard routinely to get to the river which is about 100 yds. in front of my house. I just did a quick scan of the Farm bureau newsletter for this area, here are some article titles from the past 8 months:
Coyote caught killing calf, shot by farmer (had picture)
'Pack' of Coyote kill cow, filmed by farmer (had stills)
Coyote kill sheep at local farm.
Tips to keep the Coyote from harming your livestock.
Coyotes sited raiding local farm. Two shot. Two get away.
Oblong area new warnings: Coyote seen at three area farms.
Coyote caught red handed, sheep in tow (had pictures)
Prize winning calf taken down by coyote...insurance flap continues.
There are at least a dozen more but I think you get the idea. Perhaps in ideal conditions or for the researcher who only looks at one region/area, the 'rare' occurrence is true. But the REALITY of it is they are a menace in a lot of areas. Farmers here go to great lengths to protect their livestock from Coyotes. The farmer around the corner swears they took down one of his baby llamas. This same farmer made the local rag with a picture of two coyote, dead, along with the dog and the baby llama that were killed.
Rare? Around here, no. Normal? Around here, yes. Perhaps the person who did the research or came up with the ideas that Coyote don't do this or that or rarely do this or that only looked at a local area and applied his observations to the whole population in general (not unheard of in research). But if you came in my neighborhood and said "Coyote just don't do that" you would be run off the farm and that right quickly.
Message edited by author 2007-02-07 07:04:58. |
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02/07/2007 07:46:55 AM · #34 |
| I know several ranchers in eastern Colorado who get rid of mommy cows that do not protect their calves from coyotes. If the cow does not chase the coyotes off, they become dinner or are sold to someone who owns a feedlot. These ranchers used to shoot, poison, and kill all coyotes on their property, now they have no problem with losses do to coyotes and have had no losses in years. Culling of dumb human bred cows has work very well for thses ranchers. I have seen coyotes and great horned owls eating domestic cats more than once. Van. |
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02/07/2007 08:44:26 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by Shecoya:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Is it just the cute creatures that deserve to live?
How do you decide that hey, I'm gonna kill mosquitoes, but coyotes are just dandy? |
Oh I totally got where you were coming from.. just think you were taking it to extremes... and mosquitos.. i mentioned for me pose a health risk because of my allergy. (if there are too many around) But working at the wildlife center we rehab everything from snakes, bats and salamanders to raptors, songbirds, coyote, fox and bears.. its not just the typical cute critters.
I get your point but there again.. I go out of my way to not harm any bugs / insects etc.. personal choice perhaps a bit extreme but its how I work .. and it works for me.
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Since you obviously can draw the line that some life is worth saving and some life is not, why are you so apalled that others can make the same kind of distinction, though not in the same way as you?
Message edited by author 2007-02-07 08:44:54.
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02/07/2007 09:09:13 AM · #36 |
| Hey, dont leave the plants out! Doesn't that kudzu thats trying to grow up the side of your house have a right to live? No more cutting that back. |
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02/07/2007 10:31:06 AM · #37 |
We were doing a family shoot outdoors (in a grassy landcaped area in the middle of a neighborhood) last weekend and we saw a coyote trotting down the sidewalk. Didn't have a telephoto so no shots of it. A couple kids on bikes came around the corner and the two parties were heading right for each other. As soon as the coyote saw the kids it turned around and headed the other direction. We have a lot of coyotes here in Arizona, it's very comon to see them and the only problem (some people consider it a problem) is they kill cats and small dogs that people let roam the neighborhood at night. I've never heard the dairy or sheep farmers here complain about them either.
Now human coyotes (illegal immigrant smugglers), those are a huge problem here as they carry automatic guns and shoot at people. I much prefer the 4 legged coyotes.
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02/07/2007 02:13:24 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Since you obviously can draw the line that some life is worth saving and some life is not, why are you so apalled that others can make the same kind of distinction, though not in the same way as you? |
Spazmo: I detect some underlying tones of hostility..Of course I can draw the line... not once in any of my posts did I say I couldnt. The purpose of this thread was to dispell common misconceptions about one source of wildlife. It was never intended to be a pro life thread or anything like it (from my part anyway) I choose to make choices within my life that fit for me of course people who have other experiences will choose to make their own. All I am doing is sharing information i've been taught and some generalist points that coyotes get a bad rap.
As people play with different methods of population control, protecting some and not others you will get unbalanced populations.. ie: Kill all the coyotes potentially become overrun with rabbits. Kill all the cougars and wolves etc.. overrun with Coyotes... Nature has a balance but as people we have our needs and often mess up the natural process. In Banff they protected the Elk so much they became overrun with them so they had to start a culling process. I understand the need for that as well.
I also mentioned that I know hunters that I dont have a problem with because they process the entire animal as best they can and the meat from the animal feeds their families.. again that isnt what this thread was intended for. It was about dispelling common misconceptions about coyotes.
I understand the need for some farmers to have to protect their livlihood.. never once did I say I didnt and I dont appreciate you putting words into my mouth. Suggesting i'm apalled and dont understand the need for other view points than my own. But what is the harm in bringing forth other sources of knowledge.
You mentioned somewhere earlier in the thread that you had seen coyotes bring down a cow or something... if you noticed .. I didnt argue that point all I asked was if you were absolutely certain it was a coyote.. that I found it hard to believe that a 30 pound animal could down a full sized calf or cow.. finding something hard to believe.. does not make it impossible.
My points were:
A. That a lot of time (please read carefully I said A lot of time not all the time), loss of stock can be attributed to other animals and blamed on Coyotes.
B. That farmers can take many precautions and in fact have, to live peacefully with coyotes and other predators.. if people take the time to investigate the source of the problem changes can be made that dont result in mass killing off of breeds much like the wolves years ago which we are still recovering from.. it all comes down to education and choices. Sure its easier to see one and kill it.. threat resolved before it manifests itself..but many farming communities just like  vtruan mentioned just now, do things differntly and have good results.
These are my opinions.. and the information i've put in my posts come from a variety of geographical locations across the United States and Canada. The information also backs up what biologists who study coyotes here in alberta have shared with me as well in various seminars and workshops. But no its not the absolute and I never claimed it to be. Just offering different perspectives.
Message edited by author 2007-02-07 14:17:19. |
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02/07/2007 02:22:38 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by BradP:
Can anyone explain to me, why a Coyote (or whatever wild animal) has any less of a right to live on this planet than we do?
Please explain that to me - I've never understood it.
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So, if mice or rats invaded your house, you wouldn't set out traps or call an exterminator?
What about insects? Why should insects be any different from animals? Better not swat any flies or mosquitoes, or step on any ants.
How about germs? Don't they have rights too? Better throw out that disinfectant spray and for God's sake, stop showering and brushing your teeth, just think of all the innocent bacteria... |
I think you know exactly what I was getting at, and your response to this is, well, stupid!
(I'm not calling you stupid btw, just saying your response was)
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02/07/2007 03:04:29 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Shecoya:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Since you obviously can draw the line that some life is worth saving and some life is not, why are you so apalled that others can make the same kind of distinction, though not in the same way as you? |
Spazmo: I detect some underlying tones of hostility..Of course I can draw the line... not once in any of my posts did I say I couldnt. The purpose of this thread was to dispell common misconceptions about one source of wildlife. It was never intended to be a pro life thread or anything like it (from my part anyway) I choose to make choices within my life that fit for me of course people who have other experiences will choose to make their own. All I am doing is sharing information i've been taught and some generalist points that coyotes get a bad rap.
As people play with different methods of population control, protecting some and not others you will get unbalanced populations.. ie: Kill all the coyotes potentially become overrun with rabbits. Kill all the cougars and wolves etc.. overrun with Coyotes... Nature has a balance but as people we have our needs and often mess up the natural process. In Banff they protected the Elk so much they became overrun with them so they had to start a culling process. I understand the need for that as well.
I also mentioned that I know hunters that I dont have a problem with because they process the entire animal as best they can and the meat from the animal feeds their families.. again that isnt what this thread was intended for. It was about dispelling common misconceptions about coyotes.
I understand the need for some farmers to have to protect their livlihood.. never once did I say I didnt and I dont appreciate you putting words into my mouth. Suggesting i'm apalled and dont understand the need for other view points than my own. But what is the harm in bringing forth other sources of knowledge.
You mentioned somewhere earlier in the thread that you had seen coyotes bring down a cow or something... if you noticed .. I didnt argue that point all I asked was if you were absolutely certain it was a coyote.. that I found it hard to believe that a 30 pound animal could down a full sized calf or cow.. finding something hard to believe.. does not make it impossible.
My points were:
A. That a lot of time (please read carefully I said A lot of time not all the time), loss of stock can be attributed to other animals and blamed on Coyotes.
B. That farmers can take many precautions and in fact have, to live peacefully with coyotes and other predators.. if people take the time to investigate the source of the problem changes can be made that dont result in mass killing off of breeds much like the wolves years ago which we are still recovering from.. it all comes down to education and choices. Sure its easier to see one and kill it.. threat resolved before it manifests itself..but many farming communities just like vtruan mentioned just now, do things differntly and have good results.
These are my opinions.. and the information i've put in my posts come from a variety of geographical locations across the United States and Canada. The information also backs up what biologists who study coyotes here in alberta have shared with me as well in various seminars and workshops. But no its not the absolute and I never claimed it to be. Just offering different perspectives. |
There's no hostility, I assure you. If my post came across that way, I'm sorry.
I'm certainly not in favor of exterminating any species, but, when someone is relying on a herd of cattle to feed their family, you can't expect them not to address a problem directly and immediately. As was mentioned elsewhere in this thread, there are long term solutions that involve ways to control the population that are not lethal. Unfortunately, those methods are not perfect and when a predator population is under stress from a food shortage, they will go after more difficult food sources such as cattle.
I'm more curious about how you can draw your line in one place and expect others to draw their line in the same place or very close to yours. That's all.
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02/07/2007 03:10:15 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by BradP:
Can anyone explain to me, why a Coyote (or whatever wild animal) has any less of a right to live on this planet than we do?
Please explain that to me - I've never understood it.
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So, if mice or rats invaded your house, you wouldn't set out traps or call an exterminator?
What about insects? Why should insects be any different from animals? Better not swat any flies or mosquitoes, or step on any ants.
How about germs? Don't they have rights too? Better throw out that disinfectant spray and for God's sake, stop showering and brushing your teeth, just think of all the innocent bacteria... |
I think you know exactly what I was getting at, and your response to this is, well, stupid!
(I'm not calling you stupid btw, just saying your response was) |
I do understand what you were saying. I simply took your reasoning to the extreme. (and, yes, taken that far, it does seem silly, or as you put it "stupid".) My answer to you is another question. How do you draw the line between "Gee, it's unacceptable to kill this creature." and "It's OK to kill this creature."? Is it just the cute furry critters? or the ones you see as beneficial or pretty to look at? Why would you favor one form of life over another?
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02/07/2007 03:29:57 PM · #42 |
Simple.
If an animal threatens my health or safety, then it becomes an issue.
A Black Widow spider in my house is one such an example - it becomes really flat, really quick. Common household spiders such as a Daddy Longs Legs, or common garden spider I don't bother, as they rid my house of other bugs. If I do anything to them, it's to put them outside. Mice and Rodents carry disease and can be very harmful to the health & safety of those in my house, and they cannot be allowed to live in my house, by whatever means is necessary to remove or exterminate them.
Now someone with a BB gun or similar, be it any form of weapon for instance, sitting outside, plucking off a bird on a telephone wire just for fun, is totally unacceptable. When it comes to the animal instincts that even we have in us, and it's a survival of the fittest, then taking a life of an animal becomes necessary for our survival.
If a farmer can't protect his property and livestock with fences properly, then he needs to rethink the fences or another method of fending away those Coyotes, but bottom line, the farmer encroached on the Coyotes natural habitat, or man in general pushed it out of it's natural environment, causing it to seek food where it normally wouldn't.
Does the Coyote understand property lines? No
Is it simply operating on it's instincts for survival? Yes
Why does it not have the same rights to live it's life as we do?
Senseless kllings is what I am against.
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02/07/2007 04:07:49 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Simple.
If an animal threatens my health or safety, then it becomes an issue.
A Black Widow spider in my house is one such an example - it becomes really flat, really quick. Common household spiders such as a Daddy Longs Legs, or common garden spider I don't bother, as they rid my house of other bugs. If I do anything to them, it's to put them outside. Mice and Rodents carry disease and can be very harmful to the health & safety of those in my house, and they cannot be allowed to live in my house, by whatever means is necessary to remove or exterminate them.
Now someone with a BB gun or similar, be it any form of weapon for instance, sitting outside, plucking off a bird on a telephone wire just for fun, is totally unacceptable. When it comes to the animal instincts that even we have in us, and it's a survival of the fittest, then taking a life of an animal becomes necessary for our survival.
If a farmer can't protect his property and livestock with fences properly, then he needs to rethink the fences or another method of fending away those Coyotes, but bottom line, the farmer encroached on the Coyotes natural habitat, or man in general pushed it out of it's natural environment, causing it to seek food where it normally wouldn't.
Does the Coyote understand property lines? No
Is it simply operating on it's instincts for survival? Yes
Why does it not have the same rights to live it's life as we do?
Senseless kllings is what I am against. |
If the cattle that a rancher has represent survival for him and his family, wouldn't that justify shooting the coyote?
He may act responsibly in managing wildlife on his property, but his neighbor may not and may, in be the cause of that coyote attacking cattle. Should he just let the coyotes do their thing and declare bankruptcy when his income won't pay the bills?
As for the notion that a fence will keep coyotes out of an area, that's simply not practical. You'd need a fence 12ft high or higher. I've seen a coyote easily clear an 8 foot wall, snatch a puppy and bound back over the wall in seconds.
If a coyote is attacking cattle, that likely means that there is an excess population of coyotes and an inadequate supply of easy prey (rabbits, mice, etc), that will lead to starvation among the coyotes. Simply put, the population will die off anyway. The real question is, should people actively manage wildlife populations (this often means killing creatures), or let them run rampant, eventually becoming a threat to humans? I'd say that killings to control wildlife populations are not senseless. Part of active management is hunting, controlling limits, licenses and seasons, including those on predator species, like coyotes, which are typically not eaten.
Why should the coyote, or any other creature, have exclusive rights to not be displaced? By that same reasoning, we should give the country back to the Native Americans and move back to Europe, Asia or Africa.
What about animals that are raised to be killed, like cattle? Isn't that killing just as senseless? If not, why not? If so, do you eat meat? It's certainly not a question of survival, many healthy people are vegans and that steer in a Nebraska feedlot is certainly not a physical threat to anyone. People that eat meat, make a choice, consciously or not, that it's OK to kill that animal so they can dine on its flesh.
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02/07/2007 04:35:44 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I'm more curious about how you can draw your line in one place and expect others to draw their line in the same place or very close to yours. That's all. |
I havent asked nor do I expect anyone to draw their lines where I draw mine. again words in my mouth.
I have asked that people read what i'm writing with an open mind and perhaps admit that yes there may be some misconceptions about this specific animal and in turn also admit that perhaps there are other options to live peacefully with other creatures who are also just trying to get by. |
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02/07/2007 05:16:17 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Shecoya:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I'm more curious about how you can draw your line in one place and expect others to draw their line in the same place or very close to yours. That's all. |
I havent asked nor do I expect anyone to draw their lines where I draw mine. again words in my mouth.
I have asked that people read what i'm writing with an open mind and perhaps admit that yes there may be some misconceptions about this specific animal and in turn also admit that perhaps there are other options to live peacefully with other creatures who are also just trying to get by. |
If it wasn't  ellamay's account of witnessing someone shooting a coyote and your disapproval of where that individual draws their line, then what motivated you to start this thread at all?
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02/07/2007 05:17:55 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Simple.
If an animal threatens my health or safety, then it becomes an issue.
A Black Widow spider in my house is one such an example - it becomes really flat, really quick. Common household spiders such as a Daddy Longs Legs, or common garden spider I don't bother, as they rid my house of other bugs. If I do anything to them, it's to put them outside. Mice and Rodents carry disease and can be very harmful to the health & safety of those in my house, and they cannot be allowed to live in my house, by whatever means is necessary to remove or exterminate them.
Now someone with a BB gun or similar, be it any form of weapon for instance, sitting outside, plucking off a bird on a telephone wire just for fun, is totally unacceptable. When it comes to the animal instincts that even we have in us, and it's a survival of the fittest, then taking a life of an animal becomes necessary for our survival.
If a farmer can't protect his property and livestock with fences properly, then he needs to rethink the fences or another method of fending away those Coyotes, but bottom line, the farmer encroached on the Coyotes natural habitat, or man in general pushed it out of it's natural environment, causing it to seek food where it normally wouldn't.
Does the Coyote understand property lines? No
Is it simply operating on it's instincts for survival? Yes
Why does it not have the same rights to live it's life as we do?
Senseless kllings is what I am against. |
Didn't you also encroach on the black widow's turf? Shouldn't you also follow your advice for farmers by making your home more insulated from the threats of spiders and rats rather than killing them outright? Just curious on your logic here.
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02/07/2007 05:40:33 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
If it wasn't ellamay's account of witnessing someone shooting a coyote and your disapproval of where that individual draws their line, then what motivated you to start this thread at all? |
Spazmo.. if you read the first 5 lines of my first post here you would know what inspired me to start this thread.
Edit to add: For the record..I am allowed to disapprove of where people draw lines.. and I am allowed to try bring forth other points of view. I'm not saying I approve or disapprove.. but its my right to have a difference of opinion and to offer other ways of looking at things. Just as its another persons right to hear what i'm saying and buy in .. or not.
Message edited by author 2007-02-07 17:44:10. |
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02/07/2007 05:55:01 PM · #48 |
The same analogy for the coyote applies to the mouse and the black widow. Neither understand property lines and both are acting on instincts. The farmer has as much right to protect his herd as you do your family IMO. Why not proof your house so that nothing can get in. Impossible? Same with the farmer and the fence.
Originally posted by BradP:
Simple.
If an animal threatens my health or safety, then it becomes an issue.
A Black Widow spider in my house is one such an example - it becomes really flat, really quick. Common household spiders such as a Daddy Longs Legs, or common garden spider I don't bother, as they rid my house of other bugs. If I do anything to them, it's to put them outside. Mice and Rodents carry disease and can be very harmful to the health & safety of those in my house, and they cannot be allowed to live in my house, by whatever means is necessary to remove or exterminate them.
Now someone with a BB gun or similar, be it any form of weapon for instance, sitting outside, plucking off a bird on a telephone wire just for fun, is totally unacceptable. When it comes to the animal instincts that even we have in us, and it's a survival of the fittest, then taking a life of an animal becomes necessary for our survival.
If a farmer can't protect his property and livestock with fences properly, then he needs to rethink the fences or another method of fending away those Coyotes, but bottom line, the farmer encroached on the Coyotes natural habitat, or man in general pushed it out of it's natural environment, causing it to seek food where it normally wouldn't.
Does the Coyote understand property lines? No
Is it simply operating on it's instincts for survival? Yes
Why does it not have the same rights to live it's life as we do?
Senseless kllings is what I am against. |
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02/07/2007 05:59:43 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Just curious on your logic here. |
Oh you should know me better than that Richard - I have no logic.
 
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02/07/2007 09:59:34 PM · #50 |
Coyote Fencing:
I know many that have tried to fence out the coyotes. Problem is, coyotes have brains! they are clever creatures and adaptable. The climb them, break through them, dig under them. You have to check the fence on a daily basis. Smaller properties are easier. Properties for a herd of cattle.... not so much. In the west many of the ranchers have to run as little as 100 head of cattle on thousands of acres so fencing for coyotes is not practical and actually REALLY encroachs on thier freedom. Better policy to take care of the 'problem' coyotes instead of affecting ALL the coyotes.
The average coyote will not bother large stock but desperate coyotes will and once they learn, they can they become a problem and be repeat offenders and teach others. Black bears often face the same issues. Mostly they aren't dangerous unless provoked but also being clever when desperate they will learn a behavior that is dangerous. LIke the farmer/rancher that culls a cow for certain behavior (not naturally protecting its progeny) by sending it to the feedlot, you sometimes have to cull the predators that have learned a behavior.
Game wardens will help by removing and relocating bears that have developed these problems. Once. if it comes back and reoffends, or reoffends in its new location it is exterminated. They try to move the bear where there are few bears (and fewer people). It wouldn't be very fair to take a bear and plop it down right in the middle of some other bears territory.
Now this would be a great thing to do with coyotes too but there are a couple of problems. Coyotes are not tagged & tracked as well as bears. There are soo many more of them, no matter where you take the coyote there will be more coyotes. Not fair to disrupt so many other coyote family by moving one into it's territory. You may end up with many dead coyotes. They fight, if the new one wins it will likely kill all the other coyotes young. It may make the coyotes already in that area more desperate so they become problems... just to different farmers and ranchers or other people. Hard to get the game warden to help you with a coyote.... he'll just likely tell you to shoot the one that's a problem. He's got bears, mountain lions, elk populations and poachers to deal with. Coyotes are NOT a "game" animal, are not in any way shape or form endangered and are not regulated like the afore mentioned critters are.
I know I'm missing plenty of other points here but hopefully one can see that there is just not an easy solution. It's complicated, one solution just creates another problem so sometimes it just best to remove the offending animal. I have lots of ranching friends, it's a hard life. They only get paid at the end of the year when the cattle get sold to the feedlots. If there has been a bad drought, or flooding that one young cow can make or break you. In the year before the sale you have to feed them (over the winter when not in pasture), vaccinate them, brand and tag them, find them in their range to check on them, water them, buy them mineral salt blocks for electrolyes, buy grazing permits. In times of drought you have to continue to feed the, haul water to them, buy the feed and water to haul to them, more electrolytes, and sometimes sell them prematurely and sell more of them that you normally would have. And most of these guys are doing all of this while holding full time jobs so they can pay the house mortgage. So when you have one of those coyotes that has learned to kill your stock. Sometimes the farmers/ranchers out of desperation just shoot the offending animal. You could lose more stock while waiting for the game warden to help while hes' busy fixing other problems with other animals that have bigger problems and more regulations. |
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