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02/04/2007 05:10:09 PM · #101 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
The Site Council has decided that saying the Military is a great career option is not inflammatory political speech, but speaking against joining the military during a time of war is inflammatory political speech. |
I think we are saying that you shouldn't highjack someone else's thread, but we've also not locked your thread, where you are free to continue expressing your opinion (within the site's Forum rules and TOS).
Message edited by author 2007-02-04 17:10:35. |
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02/04/2007 05:11:28 PM · #102 |
For the sake of fairness,  kirbic did tell me that I could start a thread of personal accounts myself in General Discussion (after I suggested it to him), but after my recent vilification, I'm not sure that a thread like that, started by me, would do any good. Nor am I qualified to start such a thread.
Message edited by author 2007-02-04 17:11:51.
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02/04/2007 05:14:29 PM · #103 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by posthumous:
The Site Council has decided that saying the Military is a great career option is not inflammatory political speech, but speaking against joining the military during a time of war is inflammatory political speech. |
I think we are saying that you shouldn't highjack someone else's thread, but we've also not locked your thread, where you are free to continue expressing your opinion (within the site's Forum rules and TOS). |
Hijack means going off topic. I was on topic, just in disagreement. And I was very brief and courteous. I never once called anyone an asshole, nor directed any comments directly at anyone.
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02/04/2007 05:17:33 PM · #104 |
John cant totally disagree with your points. I really feel the media is a huge problem. One of my co-workers husband is there, about a year ago he asked if we could donate as much baseball equip. we could get our hands on to help the kids take there mind off the situation. You wouldn't believe how much equip. we sent over. He contacted us back and told us it was a huge success. We contacted the media & guess what? It didn't even hit our local papers or local news stations on tv.
As far as terrorists. We experienced it for the first time in our history on our home land. In my opinion we totally screwed up after 911. We started in the right direction going after Bin Laden. But for some reason Bush went to Iraq. Bin Laden is still out there. Again just my opinion. We should had finished the job with Bin Laden and continued the course to any country which supports terrorists. Which in time would had taken us to Iraq and other countries in the region. Under this plan I believe we would had the support of most of the free world.
I do believe if we pull out of Iraq, we just seeded the terrorists a place to prosper in that region. Bush has made many mistakes, I hope he doesnt make another by pulling out until there is some peace and order in the country.
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02/04/2007 06:09:18 PM · #105 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by posthumous:
The Site Council has decided that saying the Military is a great career option is not inflammatory political speech, but speaking against joining the military during a time of war is inflammatory political speech. |
I think we are saying that you shouldn't highjack someone else's thread, but we've also not locked your thread, where you are free to continue expressing your opinion (within the site's Forum rules and TOS). |
You may not have locked it, but it is in the rant forum. If it didn't appear on the first front page i would have never have seen this thread which i've been following. I don't think this thread deserves to be in the rant forum, and I think posthumous has been nothing but civil within this thread. |
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02/04/2007 09:29:43 PM · #106 |
If anyone would like to read some statements made by Iraqi women that I have PERSONALLY been in contact with, feel free to PM me. You might gain a tiny bit more information on the war (and I truly believe that is the reason we invaded) and the cruel men who were running the country. It was done for a class so everything is accompanied by a URL to reliable news sources.
Moving on:
For the OP: My husband is currently in the ARMY National Guard. He has spent time in Bosnia and Iraq. We left active duty just 3 years ago. I can tell you that as a military wife, it is hard having your husband gone for long periods of time (and scary too) but if I didn't support him, where would he be? A SUPER QUOTE: "Behind every successful soldier, is a good woman."
;-)
If people stopped joining, how long do you think it would be before this country was weakened and conquered?
If you want, we can all take our military families and move out of the country... we will come and re-claim it after all the people who are adverse to killing have been run out, sold into slavery, or been killed themselves.
A country needs it's military and the reason so many people here are angry with you has been stated above. If we have no military, we become weak. You are, in effect, trying to talk people out of joining and (by no directly malicious part of yours I am sure) attempting to weaken the very fibers that hold the USA strong.
On a more personal note, I do have 4 sons. I know that one day they will all join. Probably my daughter too. Not because I push them to, but because they have a deep seeded pride in our beautiful country and they want to do their part (just like thier Mom [FRG co-chairperson] and Dad). When that day comes, I will kiss them and tell them how proud I am to be their mother (that would be done no matter what though).
Perhaps this post would have been better received if you had stated both sides of the coin?
I don't know... I am not yelling or arguing, just trying to help you understand why people reacted the way they did and giving you a military wife's POV.
Have a lovely evening.
Jojo |
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02/04/2007 11:37:00 PM · #107 |
My last post on this topic-
I feel like you, 'posthumous' pulled a sentence in my 'My son is in Iraq' thread OUT OF CONTEXT. I was merely making a comment on how much the Marines has done for my son, and how I think it was a good choice. My thread title wasn't promoting military as a career choice, but rather 'hey, my son made it to Iraq and I'm a proud mother'. You chose to over dramatize my concerned thoughts about my son and make it an excuse to launch your own anti-military/political platform. I think your thread may have been fine alone without the direct connection to me and my thread.
Message edited by author 2007-02-04 23:40:24. |
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02/04/2007 11:55:54 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by kyebosh:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by posthumous:
The Site Council has decided that saying the Military is a great career option is not inflammatory political speech, but speaking against joining the military during a time of war is inflammatory political speech. |
I think we are saying that you shouldn't highjack someone else's thread, but we've also not locked your thread, where you are free to continue expressing your opinion (within the site's Forum rules and TOS). |
You may not have locked it, but it is in the rant forum. If it didn't appear on the first front page i would have never have seen this thread which i've been following. I don't think this thread deserves to be in the rant forum, and I think posthumous has been nothing but civil within this thread. |
Well, I didn't personally move it or hide any posts in the other thread -- as a rule I don't try to "moderate" threads in which I have an interest/opinion or have posted in (like this one). I was just trying to explain what those who took action may have been thinking, whether or not I agreed with the action. |
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02/05/2007 12:37:25 AM · #109 |
From a friend in Iraq. He's a major in the marines and emails occassionaly. This arrived tonight (I have edited full names) and thought it might be interesting. I believe it qualifies as 'veterans experience' as well as being the sort of tales you simply never see on tv or read in US media (though the following is fairly typical of what I hear routinely from the men and women on the ground).
Greetings from the Fallujah Peninsula,
The marvelous Marines of Alpha Company 1/24 have experienced every
emotion imaginable; they have encountered the utmost of danger; they
have stared terror in the face. Throughout they have experienced
unthinkable success in their mission all while continuing to steadfastly
serve others - both Marine buddies and courageous, peace-seeking Iraqis.
Most of you got my email that recounted Cpl N's unselfishness and
obvious service to others. He was prepared to serve in the Marine Corps
as an aviator;but even more importantly he came to serve with his buddy
LCpl M T after they made a pact in boot camp to go to war
together. We conducted the memorial service for Cpl N this past
Wednesday and the Marines made me so proud of their love and fondness
for Cpl N.
Le me also share something with you about one of our Iraqi friends. The
night that Cpl N was killed I had a meeting with one of our local
contacts from the main tribe that has been dealing with a tremendous
amount of pressure from Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQIZ). They have seen their
share of death and pain over the past 2-3 years as well. But the first
thing out of this man's mouth when I shook his hand was that he was
deeply sorry for our loss and that he was going to help us find who did
this horrible thing. He gave me a sturdy handshake and a firm hug after
he spoke. This is the 1st Iraqi to show any type of sympathy or emotion
in regards to a Marine's death since I have been here. He then
proceeded to tell us everything about the insurgents responsible and he
said that he does this because he knows how we hurt when a Marine is
killed. This man has lost several of his family as a result of the
fighting and his courage and resolve are unlike anything that I've ever
seen. But he remains focused on serving others despite the adversity
and danger he and his family is experiencing daily. As a result of the
information gathered, I can proudly report that at least 3 of the
terrorists responsible for Cpl N's death are now in our custody as a
result of a raid that Weapons Platoon conducted just the other day.
We've lived on a roller-coaster of emotions over the past couple of
weeks but the Marines have stayed focused and professional throughout.
The Marines of Weapons Platoon wanted to ensure that they took care of
Cpl N even though he is not with us anymore.
Let's also take LCpl N B for example. Here's a tall,
lanky Marine from the eastern hills of Tennessee who literally patrolled
for 3 days with appendicitis because he said he didn't want to let his
squad down! Simply stunning! He is recovering well from his surgery but
he told me he just wants to be back with his buddies.
Then there's HM3 V and HM1 Z (both Navy Corpsman) while
both over at ECP-5 delivered a few babies, stabilized multiple Iraqis
suffering from gunshot wounds and various other trauma as well as
holding and trying to comfort an elderly Iraqi lady while she breathed
her last breaths here on earth. They didn't have to do this - all they
had to do was let them pass through the ECP and continue on to Fallujah
General Hospital less than 1 mile away. But they knew that these people
were suffering and were in need of immediate care and they took it upon
themselves to show genuine love and compassion for others.
I can tell you that to a man, every injured Marine from Alpha Company
that is back in the US healing, yearns to be back here with their fellow
warriors. They have this deep burning within themselves to continue to
serve others even in their current situations. Some even hurt deeply
because they cannot come back here.
Early on in this deployment I struggled to find something to focus
myself on; some 'big event' or 'accomplishment' that we could point to
as a group over the course of the 7 months in Iraq. Well, I wasted my
time worrying and wondering what that would be. I didn't have to look
any further than those around me who have stayed focused on serving
those around them. So many times throughout a given day I've seen
things happen but they didn't totally register until later. The utter
magnitude of what these astonishing young men are accomplishing for
others leaves me speechless sometimes. ;
We now have 100's of gigabytes of information on our area and especially
information on the insurgents and terrorists that we hunt everyday.
With the success that our area has seen, more locals are giving us
information, even to the point that they are handwriting us statements
in their own hand and naming the insurgents by name and tribe.
Additionally, we have had Iraqis point out improvised explosive devices
to us - actually putting their lives in danger in order to protect the
lives of your Marines.
The other night ;we signed a contract with a local Iraqi contractor to
pave a road nearby our base. This is a heavily traveled dirt road used
by thousands of Iraqis everyday. The contractor told us the other night
that this is the first time anyone has done something for them in this
area by way of employment for Iraqis. The road project will employ
close to 150 who currently do not have jobs. We will then move to
another road and pave that one - it will employ close to 250. We are
close to signing an agreement for a medical clinic in a very needy area
of the Peninsula. But we are rewarding those brave and courageous
Iraqis who have given us information in the fight against terrorism.
The cycle is contagious.
We have received the hundreds of boxes of medical supplies that we
requested for Fallujah General Hospital. We will take a trip up there
next week to deliver these supplies. I know the people working at the
hospital will appreciate these and I know the patients who will receive
better care as a result of these supplies will truly appreciate this. I
sincerely appreciate all of those who had a part in this project - large
or small. Thank you for serving others - even though you didn't know
who they were. |
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02/05/2007 12:53:01 AM · #110 |
| no way for me to respond to routerguy's post other than "wow!" |
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02/05/2007 01:01:18 AM · #111 |
Fantastic post Routerguy... kept me glued to my chair, notwithstanding the fact that this old geezer should be in bed by now. It truly was very thought provoking.
Ray |
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02/05/2007 02:15:55 PM · #112 |
Just awesome. Thanks for sharing...Its this kinda of stuff the media needs to hear & hopefully share with the world.....
Message edited by author 2007-02-05 16:11:18. |
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02/05/2007 03:20:59 PM · #113 |
Originally posted by CalliopeKel:
My last post on this topic-
I feel like you, 'posthumous' pulled a sentence in my 'My son is in Iraq' thread OUT OF CONTEXT. I was merely making a comment on how much the Marines has done for my son, and how I think it was a good choice. My thread title wasn't promoting military as a career choice, but rather 'hey, my son made it to Iraq and I'm a proud mother'. You chose to over dramatize my concerned thoughts about my son and make it an excuse to launch your own anti-military/political platform. I think your thread may have been fine alone without the direct connection to me and my thread. |
Yes I would agree. Unfair. Had your thread posthumous mentioned been about your son's washout from the military, a better analogy would have been made for the good and patriotic intentions posthumous had in mind by bringing this valuable topic to our attention. |
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02/05/2007 07:45:22 PM · #114 |
Clearly routerguy's marine is pushing an agenda, and I don't blame him. He's in an extremely difficult situation and has to get motivated. Still, I would be happy to see that account in a thread about veterans' experiences. I'm thinking I would like to hear the experiences of Iraqis as well.
And as to ace flyman's concern about the media, at least you can be comforted knowing that they're also not headlining the stories of Iraqi security forces, you know, the "good guys", shooting at U.S. soldiers.
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02/05/2007 09:16:42 PM · #115 |
Don̢۪t understand what you want. Pushing an agenda? This Marine is living it right now. You will not be happy until you hear something negative.
Dude watch the National news. Just last week some imposters raided a committee using our vehicles and uniforms. Took hostages and killed several Marines. (just one example)
The problem with terrorists, you don̢۪t know who the enemy is. But we have to fight fair, yet they don̢۪t. Geneva Convention...hmmmmmm
Originally posted by posthumous:
Clearly routerguy's marine is pushing an agenda, and I don't blame him. He's in an extremely difficult situation and has to get motivated. Still, I would be happy to see that account in a thread about veterans' experiences. I'm thinking I would like to hear the experiences of Iraqis as well.
And as to ace flyman's concern about the media, at least you can be comforted knowing that they're also not headlining the stories of Iraqi security forces, you know, the "good guys", shooting at U.S. soldiers. |
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02/05/2007 09:28:38 PM · #116 |
Originally posted by ace flyman:
Dude watch the National news. Just last week some imposters raided a committee using our vehicles and uniforms. Took hostages and killed several Marines. (just one example) |
I'm not talking about impostors wearing the uniforms of Iraqi security forces. I'm talking about Iraqi security forces.
p.s. I don't have to wait to hear something negative. I hear something negative all the time. And it's not making me happy.
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02/05/2007 09:37:35 PM · #117 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Clearly routerguy's marine is pushing an agenda, and I don't blame him. He's in an extremely difficult situation and has to get motivated. Still, I would be happy to see that account in a thread about veterans' experiences. I'm thinking I would like to hear the experiences of Iraqis as well. |
So you've had numerous vets post their positive experiences in this thread, and now you've read first hand the experiences of a soldier on the ground, on the front line - and still you are dismissive of the lot of it.
The person clearly pushing an agenda is you, my friend. Perhaps you are one of the numerous hypocrits who 'supports the troops' but is 'against the war'. Here's some news - most of the troops believe in what they are doing. They aren't cynical people watching TV half a planet away drawing conclusions based on third hand information. They are betting their lives on what they believe to be a just cause. If you don't support the war, you are calling them fools at best and agenda-pushing liars at worst who are just wasting their time and risking their lives for nothing.
I'm sorry, but if you've already got your mind made up then why even start the thread and posture it as an open minded call for the real-life experiences of people who've actually served. You're able to spend time on this site solely because of the men and women before you who got themselves 'motivated' and believed in self-sacrifice and other such agendas and went out and tried to change the world.
Pathetic. |
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02/05/2007 09:43:50 PM · #118 |
My last words here:
Having a difference in opinion is Ok, it‘s America. Most people don’t know how well they have it, until they lose it. Hopefully the city of Tranquility won’t be the city of Terror some day.
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02/05/2007 10:59:23 PM · #119 |
Posthumous is not pathetic, he's thoughtful and reasoned and well-meaning (and he doesn't need my support :P). I continue to be alarmed and saddened by the vitriol in response to anything he says. What's the point indeed when reasoned argument is swept away in favour of bashing someone's brains out. Not just in Rant either, smart guy, but all over the place.
Tonight I watched a relevant movie. |
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02/05/2007 11:06:40 PM · #120 |
We like to bash brains Louis. We are brawling Americans making bad military career choices remember? ;)
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02/05/2007 11:15:19 PM · #121 |
posthumous' comment about the ACLU doing more for his freedom than the troops in Iraq was the funniest thing I've ever read !!!
Haaaaaaaaaahhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !
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02/05/2007 11:21:11 PM · #122 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Posthumous is not pathetic, he's thoughtful and reasoned and well-meaning (and he doesn't need my support :P). I continue to be alarmed and saddened by the vitriol in response to anything he says. What's the point indeed when reasoned argument is swept away in favour of bashing someone's brains out. Not just in Rant either, smart guy, but all over the place.
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Out of hand dismissal of first hand account because it doesn't suit your agenda is not 'reasoned argument' smart guy. My friend was retired and left a wife and kids to re-up to serve in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Dismissing his account as 'an agenda' is insulting.
Posthumous asked for first-hand accounts of life in the millitary, and he got it.
Message edited by author 2007-02-05 23:22:34. |
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02/05/2007 11:21:24 PM · #123 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
posthumous' comment about the ACLU doing more for his freedom than the troops in Iraq was the funniest thing I've ever read !!!
Haaaaaaaaaahhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ! |
Your thoughts are presented with the lucidity and reasoned intelligence I've come to expect. |
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02/05/2007 11:27:43 PM · #124 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
So you've had numerous vets post their positive experiences in this thread, and now you've read first hand the experiences of a soldier on the ground, on the front line - and still you are dismissive of the lot of it. |
Dismissive because I am not convinced? And you think DPC is my only source of information?
Originally posted by routerguy666:
The person clearly pushing an agenda is you, my friend. |
If by "agenda" you mean "peace," you do a far better job than I do, by exposing the attitudes underlying American jingoism. I like how you lay it on the line. There's an honesty to your vitriol that makes it easier for me to read than that of many other conservatives.
Originally posted by routerguy666:
Perhaps you are one of the numerous hypocrits who 'supports the troops' but is 'against the war'. |
You nailed me. I support the troops by trying to bring them home. You support them by sending them out to die.
Originally posted by routerguy666:
Here's some news - most of the troops believe in what they are doing. |
I don't pretend to speak for the troops, nor do I think any group of people can be so easily summed up.
Originally posted by routerguy666:
They aren't cynical people watching TV half a planet away drawing conclusions based on third hand information. |
Based on the things you say, you seem to be one of the most cynical people I know.
Originally posted by routerguy666:
They are betting their lives on what they believe to be a just cause. If you don't support the war, you are calling them fools at best and agenda-pushing liars at worst who are just wasting their time and risking their lives for nothing. |
Once again, it is you who have decided to speak for the troops, not I. Am I supposed to base my opinion on my overgeneralization of what other people believe instead of on facts? Fascinating.
Originally posted by routerguy666:
I'm sorry, but if you've already got your mind made up then why even start the thread and posture it as an open minded call for the real-life experiences of people who've actually served. |
I've been finding the accounts of veterans on this thread very enlightening. I learned some things. Do you learn things?
Originally posted by routerguy666:
You're able to spend time on this site solely because of the men and women before you who got themselves 'motivated' and believed in self-sacrifice and other such agendas and went out and tried to change the world. |
They are soldiers following orders. I have great admiration for them. I do not have great admiration for people who try to change the world by invading it and plunging it into chaos.
Originally posted by routerguy666:
Pathetic. |
Somehow I don't imagine you shedding a tear as you wrote this. But again, thank you. I don't know if you're serious or a brilliant parody, but either way you are a brilliant parody.
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02/05/2007 11:30:24 PM · #125 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Once again, it is you who have decided to speak for the troops, not I. Am I supposed to base my opinion on my overgeneralization of what other people believe instead of on facts? Fascinating.
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You have troops posting all over this thread!!! Their words!!! By all means feel free to form an opinion based on that. If your opinion is thus 'they have an agenda' then, fine. Best of luck to you. |
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