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02/03/2007 03:34:29 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by yanko:
How many lawyers here have joined the ACLU? FWIW, there are many that also have an aversion to the ACLU yet I don't recall seeing a thread about that. Maybe I missed it?
Edited for clarity. |
How could I possibly know how many lawyers here have joined the ACLU? And if such a thread started --"Hey I just joined the ACLU!" "Great! Thank you for defending my freedom!" -- I can only hope the people with opposing opinions would be as polite about it as I have been. Yet I am consigned to Rant. And people are asking to have my post removed from the other thread. |
It was a rhetorical question. Point being there are probably few if any ACLU laywers on this site who posts to the forums let alone any that just signed up.
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02/03/2007 03:41:52 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Chiqui:
So, that time was spent working a few 12 hour shits a week in our ER as a Corpsman/EMT/Ambulance driver. |
this sentence alone is enough to keep me from signing up. i would get SO BORED just sitting there for a 12 hour shit. i mean, can you bring your own reading material? |
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02/03/2007 03:48:52 PM · #28 |
As mentioned, the military is a VOLUNTEER organization. It's wonderful, posthumous, that you have the freedom not to join and yet that very freedom is paid for by the lives of those who do choose to. I just love the "I have an aversion to killing" as if people who join the military have an afinity for it. I thank God that there are enough people who don't think like you to fight and die for his country. And I am disgusted by people who presume to speak for those grown men and women who decide they want to join the military for WHATEVER REASON.
I would and do encourage any of my kids to join - even if I was a Politician! Would I worry about them if they were sent to a foreign country to fight? Hell yes. Would I be devastated if they were killed? Unquestionably. Would I think it was a waste if it was a war I did not agree with? No. What I think is a waste of young lives are the things young people die of in numbers that are orders of magnitude greater than our military casualties - drug overdoses, alcohol related accidents, gang violence, random crime, etc. If you really want to "help" protect young adults from making bad decisions, why don't you focus on these areas, none of which have any positive side to them, unlike a career in the military.
I can't even comprehend the OP's point or purpose - would you want nobody to be in the military? What about cops?? Please enlighten me on what you would hope to get out of trying to convince people not to join the military? I respect that you aren't willing to serve, but if it is your wish that nobody did, you would quickly find yourself in a country where everyone may be forced to serve and nobody may even have the right to even express their opinion about it. |
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02/03/2007 03:49:04 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Chiqui:
So, that time was spent working a few 12 hour shits a week in our ER as a Corpsman/EMT/Ambulance driver. |
Originally posted by muckpond:
this sentence alone is enough to keep me from signing up. i would get SO BORED just sitting there for a 12 hour shit. i mean, can you bring your own reading material? |
LMAO - my face hurts now.
Oh, and thank you Ken, fore saying what I was thinking as well.
I may not agree on why our armed forces end up in places they do, but know that of all the places I have been in this world, the US is still a pretty damned good place to live, and so many would (and do) give anything to live here, for all it's faults.
Message edited by author 2007-02-03 15:56:06.
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02/03/2007 03:55:30 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Originally posted by muckpond:
Originally posted by Chiqui:
So, that time was spent working a few 12 hour shits a week in our ER as a Corpsman/EMT/Ambulance driver. |
this sentence alone is enough to keep me from signing up. i would get SO BORED just sitting there for a 12 hour shit. i mean, can you bring your own reading material? |
LMAO - my face hurts now. |
OK, I should have specified that the 12 hours shifts were spent....well.....surfing the web.....hehe. We did have patients but we weren't as busy as the stateside civilian EMS, not even remotely.
June
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02/03/2007 03:56:38 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by BradP:
Same here, Vietnam Era, though I saw no combat. |
my apologies to both of you, though I would like to hear from vets who have seen combat, since combat seems likely for people joining the military today. |
You do realize that most people on the military never see combat action, right? Don't let the media fool you!
June
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02/03/2007 03:57:19 PM · #32 |
Go back and look again June. 12 hour shits.
:))
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02/03/2007 04:03:12 PM · #33 |
:rofl DUH!!!! That would have been painful!
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02/03/2007 04:18:49 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
As mentioned, the military is a VOLUNTEER organization. |
Of course it's a volunteer organization. The whole purpose of this thread is to inform the *choice* of people to join. Two people have mentioned this fact as though I weren't aware of it. Where is the logic, people?
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
And I am disgusted by people who presume to speak for those grown men and women who decide they want to join the military for WHATEVER REASON. |
Who is doing that?
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
If you really want to "help" protect young adults from making bad decisions, why don't you focus on these areas, none of which have any positive side to them, unlike a career in the military. |
If someone started a thread along the lines of -- "Hey my son just joined a gang! He's going to sell drugs!" "That's great!" -- and nobody was saying anything against it, I would indeed focus on that.
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I can't even comprehend the OP's point or purpose - would you want nobody to be in the military? |
That would be great. Then countries could declare war on each other and nothing would happen.
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
What about cops?? |
What do cops have to do with this? I have to say I'm having trouble making sense of your connections. Perhaps they are due to some sort of prejudging on your part?
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Please enlighten me on what you would hope to get out of trying to convince people not to join the military? |
happier people.
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I respect that you aren't willing to serve, but if it is your wish that nobody did, you would quickly find yourself in a country where everyone may be forced to serve and nobody may even have the right to even express their opinion about it. |
If we had the draft in the U.S., we wouldn't go invading countries halfway across the world under false pretenses, because the sons of Senators and Congressmen and perhaps even the President would be in the military. So bring it on.
And how this would keep us from the right of free expression is another one of your leaps of logic that is well beyond my comprehension.
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02/03/2007 04:37:32 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
... that is well beyond my comprehension. |
From what I have read to date it would seem that the whole subject matter is beyond your comprehension. If you don't understand something, do some research on it, and instead of making generalizations, try to gain an appreciation of the issues at hand.
Your initial comment that the Googled articles were biased would at first glance seem to suggest that you have already adopted a certain mindset, and considering the comments you have made since, one get the distinct impression that you do not have any liking for the military establishment.
Perhaps I am misreading your comments, but I truly do get the impression that you have mounted a campaign to inform the great masses of the unwashed of their "choices". Thank GOD you are here to tend for these poor sheep, lest they be led to the slaughter house.
Ray |
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02/03/2007 05:41:51 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
If you really want to "help" protect young adults from making bad decisions, why don't you focus on these areas, none of which have any positive side to them, unlike a career in the military. |
If someone started a thread along the lines of -- "Hey my son just joined a gang! He's going to sell drugs!" "That's great!" -- and nobody was saying anything against it, I would indeed focus on that.
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That is a very, very bad comparison. Joining the military is nothing like joining a gang. I think you have gone a bit too far with that one.
June
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02/03/2007 06:09:54 PM · #37 |
Not sure if all are gang related, but I imagine quite a few were.
There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January. In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq .
So, who goes where, joins what, to kill whom?
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02/03/2007 06:13:39 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
As mentioned, the military is a VOLUNTEER organization. |
Of course it's a volunteer organization. The whole purpose of this thread is to inform the *choice* of people to join. Two people have mentioned this fact as though I weren't aware of it. Where is the logic, people?
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Your original post makes it sound as though you were ignorant of that fact. Glad to see that's been rectified, at least on that point.
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02/03/2007 06:14:34 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
And I am disgusted by people who presume to speak for those grown men and women who decide they want to join the military for WHATEVER REASON. |
Who is doing that?
[ |
You.
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02/03/2007 06:17:00 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
If you really want to "help" protect young adults from making bad decisions, why don't you focus on these areas, none of which have any positive side to them, unlike a career in the military. |
If someone started a thread along the lines of -- "Hey my son just joined a gang! He's going to sell drugs!" "That's great!" -- and nobody was saying anything against it, I would indeed focus on that.
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It's a truly addled mind to equate joining a gang that sells drugs to enlisting in the military. I'm sorry.
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02/03/2007 06:19:37 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I can't even comprehend the OP's point or purpose - would you want nobody to be in the military? |
That would be great. Then countries could declare war on each other and nothing would happen.
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You're to be admired for your faith in the goodness of humanity if you think that would be the case. It's also an indication of an incredibly naive understanding of human nature.
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02/03/2007 06:23:42 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Please enlighten me on what you would hope to get out of trying to convince people not to join the military? |
happier people.
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Hmmmm yeah, we'll all live together like one big commune man. It'll be groovy.
This is the most laughable statement you've made yet. Given your original post, that's really saying something.
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02/03/2007 06:26:23 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I respect that you aren't willing to serve, but if it is your wish that nobody did, you would quickly find yourself in a country where everyone may be forced to serve and nobody may even have the right to even express their opinion about it. |
If we had the draft in the U.S., we wouldn't go invading countries halfway across the world under false pretenses, because the sons of Senators and Congressmen and perhaps even the President would be in the military. So bring it on.
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The draft has never stopped our country from going to war in the past. Were you paying attention in history class or were you out in the commune garden harvesting herbs?
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02/03/2007 06:41:38 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I can't even comprehend the OP's point or purpose - would you want nobody to be in the military? |
That would be great. Then countries could declare war on each other and nothing would happen.
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It would be nice if human nature would make a statement like this true. However, fanatical and authoritarian leaders will always try to take from others without the military to stop them. Should we have just let Hitler do what he wanted to do???
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Please enlighten me on what you would hope to get out of trying to convince people not to join the military? |
happier people.
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Would you be happier if you lived in China or Cuba, and were arrested for voicing your opinion as you have done so here?
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I respect that you aren't willing to serve, but if it is your wish that nobody did, you would quickly find yourself in a country where everyone may be forced to serve and nobody may even have the right to even express their opinion about it. |
If we had the draft in the U.S., we wouldn't go invading countries halfway across the world under false pretenses, because the sons of Senators and Congressmen and perhaps even the President would be in the military. So bring it on.
And how this would keep us from the right of free expression is another one of your leaps of logic that is well beyond my comprehension. |
I feel you may be mis-directing your feelings here. If you don't agree with why the Unites States is at war, that is not the military's fault. It is the civilian leadership that put the military into this war. The American military has never declared war on it's own. It has always followed the orders of the freely elected civilian leaders that you and I have chosen, and bestowed this power to.
I don't think anyone would complain if there were not a need for a military. If people and nations would always respect the beliefs and values of their neighbors, then we really wouldn't need a military. However, this is not the world we live in. There are people in this world that hate you because of your beliefs, there are people in this world who will force you to suffer in order to secure more power for themselves. The men and women who join the Unites States military are taking a stand against these people, and do so out of the love they have for human freedom. |
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02/03/2007 06:51:41 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by BakerBug:
[...] Would you be happier if you lived in China or Cuba, and were arrested for voicing your opinion as you have done so here? [...] |
Not just china or cuba... even today in western europe you can get jailed for stating your beliefs (not, i don't agree with what the individual in that case has stated, but i certainly do not think it is something that one would be jailed for) |
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02/03/2007 06:55:37 PM · #46 |
Ya' know posthumous, I get a bit hot under the collar when anyone go and criticizes the military, and though it has it faults, we wouldn't have what we have without it.
I'm always reminded of a very powerful scene from "A Few Good Men", with probably the most appropriate part of that quote in bold text at the end:
Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have more responsibility here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you don't want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!
Be the politics of war & the military be right or wrong, I'll still say thank you, and I'm proud to be a Veteran.
Message edited by author 2007-02-03 19:11:25.
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02/03/2007 07:38:02 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by BakerBug:
There are people in this world that hate you because of your beliefs, there are people in this world who will force you to suffer in order to secure more power for themselves. The men and women who join the Unites States military are taking a stand against these people, and do so out of the love they have for human freedom. |
I was the cause of bleeding tongues in the other thread. Let's hope I don't have the same effect here. Not being from the US it was assumed that I misunderstood the situation because of being fed biassed media. I've read some of the responses in these threads and to be honest, I am starting to believe there is something I am missing.
I obviously can't believe my biassed media any more. So I'll ask you informed people to explain this one small thing to me; The mission, the objective, the goal in Iraq... What is it? You were wishing the soldiers success in their mission and hoping that they 'win this thing' in the other thread. Win what?
What I see (sorry, what I've been fed by my media) is 140,000 US soldiers sitting in the middle of a bunch of Shia nutcases on one side, and a bunch of Sunni nutcases on the other, hell bent on destroying each other. What I see is 300,000 dead Iraqis, suicide bombs going off on a daily basis (another 130 killed today), destroyed infrastructure, mass exodus, and in-fighting in the US administration as to how best to handle it all.
I don't want to hear the usual tripe about 'freedom', 'our way of life', or that they're fighting to free the Iraqis from the terrorists or some undefinable rubbish like that (or that nonsense about fighting the 'terrorists' over there so you won't have to fight them at home). What I would like to understand is what is the final goal of all this action in Iraq, and how that will benefit the American people. |
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02/03/2007 07:48:12 PM · #48 |
Brad,
As a fellow veteran I just want to say thank you.
If it wasn't for the military in its infancy we'd all still be English Citizens, or been tossed off the continent by the Native Americans. |
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02/03/2007 07:52:05 PM · #49 |
Jhonan,
As an American, I too am curious what the specific "Mission" is.
However, I think it's about stopping the country from being a breeding ground for terrorists.
Unfortunately, I think the country is currently beyond our help since it is in the middle of a civil war. We're trying to stabilize a country that isn't ready to be stabilized. I also think that for us to leave the country would be a catastrophic mistake; in that the country needs some stabilizing force if it's ever going to get beyond the problems it is facing. |
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02/03/2007 07:53:50 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by NathanW:
... I think it's about stopping the country from being a breeding ground for terrorists. |
It's pretty well-documented by now that it wasn't one before the US invasion.
Sorry, but I guess I'm helping get the thread off-track ... : (
To re-focus a bit, does anyone want to comment on the recent stories about lies, fraud, and deception perpetrated by military recruiters?
Message edited by author 2007-02-03 19:56:17. |
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