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02/03/2007 02:22:14 AM · #101 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by faery:
It works BOTH ways...homeschoolers come under a lot of scrutiny, and somehow always need to prove that they are doing an exemplorary job. They have to be more accountable in a way. Their counterparts, the parents in mainstream education, are not asked to be as accountable.
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Evidently, from what I have read elsewhere in this thread, in many areas, homeschoolers are under absolutely no scrutiny whatsoever.
Why would you say that mainstream parents are any less accountable? I could make exactly the opposite point, that homeschoolers are far less accountable than mainstream parents. Ultimately though, when it comes to educating our children, as parents, the only accountability we really have is to ourselves and our kids. |
It would actually be kind of funny to scrutinize them. They score higher on state tests; they typically are more involved in the arts and get support from lots of different types "teachers". I think you would find that it would only make the public school system look worse. I teach public school, and I am saying this! lol. Education isn't where home schools lack. Socialization skills are definitely an issue. I have been in and around both sides of this argument. My kids are not going to be home schooled, I was, I support home schools, but I also believe that children can get good educations in public schools. For once people should just leave well enough alone and quit trying to pass laws on people. America is become so "un-free" that we might have to sail away to undiscovered land and set up a free republic of some kind. |
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02/03/2007 02:55:59 AM · #102 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Evidently, from what I have read elsewhere in this thread, in many areas, homeschoolers are under absolutely no scrutiny whatsoever.
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Don't quite see how that is? they're still taking SATs to get into college. Some states require other periodic tests.
My brother-in-law is at Dartmouth. He also was on the reality TV show "The Scholar" came in 3rd place to win a $50,000 scholarship. Home school student. |
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02/03/2007 02:56:45 AM · #103 |
Originally posted by boomtap:
America is become so "un-free" that we might have to sail away to undiscovered land and set up a free republic of some kind. |
Look, I've been waiting decades in order to sail into space and colonize Mars.
:) |
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02/03/2007 05:54:18 AM · #104 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Why would you say that mainstream parents are any less accountable? I could make exactly the opposite point, that homeschoolers are far less accountable than mainstream parents. Ultimately though, when it comes to educating our children, as parents, the only accountability we really have is to ourselves and our kids. |
You're absolutely right about being accountable to ourselves and our kids only...I think I came across badly: I meant that HS parents are more accountable (not more "responsible" as I think the word implied)...because (I would imagine) those who HS make a conscious alternative decision and when they announce to someone "Oh we homeschool", then the questions follow: why, how, when, for how long...? and you'd better have all the answers ready or else you feel like a fool!! If you are speaking to a mainstream parent and say "where do your children go to school?", by and large they answer "x,y or z" and that's where that line of conversation ends. (I say "by and large" obviously that's not absolute).
I used the word "accountable" to mean ...you need to be ready to give and account of why you homeschool, and how etc whereas mainstream parents are not necessarily questioned so in depth about their choices to send their children to whatever school.I know that my own mother never really thought why she sent me to the school I went to, and she was a very responsible woman: it was nearby, my friends went there, easy..no questions asked. She didn't have to give an account of her decision.
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02/03/2007 12:37:27 PM · #105 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
My question is, who monitors the quality of the education that homeschoolers provide? Anyone? |
[/quote]
That varies from state to state (and country to country).
In NC (because that is the only one I am familiar with, homeschoolers must report to the Department of Non-Public Instruction with an intent to homeschool the summer before they start (legally required at 7 years of age, though obviously homeschooling can start before then).
Then, each year, there is a "lottery" where the NCDNPI "audits" the homeschoolers by requesting attendance records (must be able to prove 180 days, same as public schools), test records, and possibly somethign else.
Also, every homeschooler in the state of NC is required to take a nationally-normed standardized achievement test every year. The state publishes a list of what is acceptable. The most common ones are the Woodcock Johnson Test of Achievement III (that's the one I give), the Iowa Test of Basic Skills, and the California Achievement Tests.
NC is one of the "most free" states when it comes to homeschooling. There is not a lot of legislation telling us what we can and cannot do and I think that is due to the huge number of homeschoolers we have in the state.
+++++++++++++++++++
Local Homeschool trivia brought to you by karmat --
Four years ago (?), the top three counties in NC for homeschooling (based on number of homeschoolers [not homeschools]) were Mecklenburg County (home of Charlotte, NC), Wake County (home of the Raleigh/Durham area) and Haywood County (where I live and one of the smaller counties in the state). We have a huge contigency of homeschoolers in our area (and I wouldn't be surprised if the Buncombe County [Asheville area] was up there now), both religious and secular. |
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02/03/2007 01:01:59 PM · #106 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Evidently, from what I have read elsewhere in this thread, in many areas, homeschoolers are under absolutely no scrutiny whatsoever.
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Don't quite see how that is? they're still taking SATs to get into college. Some states require other periodic tests.
My brother-in-law is at Dartmouth. He also was on the reality TV show "The Scholar" came in 3rd place to win a $50,000 scholarship. Home school student. |
It was this post:
Originally posted by kashi:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
My question is, who monitors the quality of the education that homeschoolers provide? Anyone? |
That depends on where you are located - some places are very strict about monitoring homeschooling families, others are not.
I'm thankful that Ontario (where I live) - is not. |
Sure, some states require homeschool student to take tests, but others don't. Sounds pretty sketchy to me.
Congratulate your brother for me, that's great.
I never claimed that HS student were, overall, getting an inferior education. I would bet that many parents do a fine job homeschooling. I see many more opportunities for homeschoolers to miss something, intentionally or not.
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02/03/2007 01:19:49 PM · #107 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I never claimed that HS student were, overall, getting an inferior education. I would bet that many parents do a fine job homeschooling. I see many more opportunities for homeschoolers to miss something, intentionally or not. |
They are missing some things. Some of the negatives are crowded classrooms, boisterous students, lack of resources, bullies, strict schedules (that can be a positive and a negative, depending on your philosophy), and inept teachers.
Some of the positive things they are missing are extra-curricular activities, a large pool of people to choose friends from (this one is debateable), exposure to many different ideas and beliefs (again, this one is debateable, depending on the family).
BUT, I don't see it as missing something. I see it as trading off.
Two easy examples:
When we study US History, specifically the Civil War, I have the opportunity to actually put the family in the car and go visit Gettysburg and other historical sites, not just read about them, or watch it on a video.
In Science, I can actually take my students to see what we are studying, not just reading about it.
Things that public school teachers (a lot of them, anyway) would love to do, but it is next to impossible with 100 - 150 students. (Number figured on teaching 5 classes a day with 20 - 30 students in a class).
As I typed this, I realize you may have something else in mind that they are "missing," so if I am wrong, just let me know.
I can't speak to what kashi says of homeschooling. Each state within the US is different, and I suspect Canadian Homeschooling is as different from US homeschooling as our public systems are.
eta -- as far as testing goes, quite frankly, in NC if you can pass (meaning score a minimal score, barely within the Low Average range of most nationally normed tests) the End of Grade and End of Course tests, that is all that really matters. So I would say the requirements for both, in the end, come out to about equal.
Message edited by author 2007-02-03 13:21:31. |
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02/03/2007 01:46:56 PM · #108 |
If you're truly interested, here's a link to the laws, state-by-state, that affect homeschoolers.
HSLDA Homeschool Laws by State
And by the way, HSLDA is the Home School Legal Defense Association. You can read more about it on their website. :) |
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02/03/2007 05:55:31 PM · #109 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I never claimed that HS student were, overall, getting an inferior education. I would bet that many parents do a fine job homeschooling. I see many more opportunities for homeschoolers to miss something, intentionally or not. |
They are missing some things. Some of the negatives are crowded classrooms, boisterous students, lack of resources, bullies, strict schedules (that can be a positive and a negative, depending on your philosophy), and inept teachers.
Some of the positive things they are missing are extra-curricular activities, a large pool of people to choose friends from (this one is debateable), exposure to many different ideas and beliefs (again, this one is debateable, depending on the family).
BUT, I don't see it as missing something. I see it as trading off.
Two easy examples:
When we study US History, specifically the Civil War, I have the opportunity to actually put the family in the car and go visit Gettysburg and other historical sites, not just read about them, or watch it on a video.
In Science, I can actually take my students to see what we are studying, not just reading about it.
Things that public school teachers (a lot of them, anyway) would love to do, but it is next to impossible with 100 - 150 students. (Number figured on teaching 5 classes a day with 20 - 30 students in a class).
As I typed this, I realize you may have something else in mind that they are "missing," so if I am wrong, just let me know.
I can't speak to what kashi says of homeschooling. Each state within the US is different, and I suspect Canadian Homeschooling is as different from US homeschooling as our public systems are.
eta -- as far as testing goes, quite frankly, in NC if you can pass (meaning score a minimal score, barely within the Low Average range of most nationally normed tests) the End of Grade and End of Course tests, that is all that really matters. So I would say the requirements for both, in the end, come out to about equal. |
No, that's not what I meant by missing out. We do many similar things with my children.
What I meant by missing out is the possibility that some part of the homeschooled child's education would be missing or incomplete. If there is some oversight or minimal achievement measures, then that is unlikely to happen, but in areas without oversight, what is to stop a parent from just not teaching something essential, either through ingorance of the need, or just plain neglect?
Also, what happens when your child's educational needs go beyond your capabilities? My parents both never progressed in math beyond college algebra. I took algebra in 7th grade, after that, neither of them could have taught me anything in math or science. How could they have educated me on a subject like Vector Calculus, when neither of them even know what that means? My parents were always a great help in other areas like English, History, Politics, Econ etc. but Math and hard science were just never their thing.
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02/03/2007 06:37:19 PM · #110 |
Again, i can't presume to speak for all homeschoolers, but the mast majority that i deal with follow the state's guidelines of graduation requirements. 4 english classes, 3 math (one which much be algebra), 3 history classes (civics, us history, western civ), 3 sciences (2 must be physical science and biology), 2 health/pe, and electives.'
i think that is right.
also, going 'beyond' the parents knowldege is a very valid concern. for my family, i htink we've got it under control. I teach high school subjects to adults up through geometry, and my husband is a mechanical engineer, so if we decide to continue through high school, we're okay.
a lot of the homeschooler i know, joined the public school system in the ninth grade (and did very very very well) or went to a private school. others go to the community college and get their GED (and if you haven't seen a GED test recently, they are NOT easy), or join adult education programs that allow them to get their high school diploma through the community college. Also, a program that our CC has (and is becoming increasingly popular across the country) is a form of dual enrollment. at 16 years of age, a student (any student, public private, homeschool) can enroll in selected community college classes (for free!) and finish up that way. Others, whose parents can, continue on and graduate with a homeschool diploma. With the exception of UNC, most major colleges are clamouring to get homeschoolers to apply.
the questions and concerns you have are very common. homeschoolers have already dealt with them, either because of experience, or because they are on photography forums that discuss it (hahahahah).
I'm not saying all homeschoolers are adept at what they are doing. (when one family I worked with for about 3 years said they were going public, i rejoiced and strongly encouraged it) or that they should be doing it. but, i will venture that most of them run very well. not without their bumps and moments, but usually very well.
i apologize for the crazy punctuation and spelling. i'm on a new/used laptop (thank you kudzu!!) and i'm still tyring to get used ot the keyboard. ;P |
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