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02/03/2007 09:42:16 PM · #176 |
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
Originally posted by formerlee:
Most religious festivals are not Christian, but Pagan. Early Christians tied their festivals into Pagan festivals to attract non-believers into their churches. By tying festivals from Christianity to Pagan festivals, they could ensure full 'churches' in the hope to convert heathens.
Most churches have been built on either Pagan worship sites or burial sites. That way, Christian priests could rely on 'Pagan' or Heathens to attend because these were their religious sites.
In UK and Europe, this was a common practice for the conversion of Pagans/Heathens. |
That's one version. The other is that in order to celebrate their Christian beliefs without being persecuted or killed, they established their celebration on the same Pagan days. This way they could have their own celebration and would not standout and be so visible. It was a way to blend in and not be killed as being Christian. |
That would be incorrect. The date of the major Christian feast, Easter, was established at the Council of Nicea in the fourth century, after Christendom had already conquered Rome. It was presided over by Constantine, reputed to be the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity. At that point, Christians were enjoying tolerance in the empire. Christianity sought to supplant paganism. The easiest way to do this was to establish Christian holy days overtop pagan holy days, simultaneously legitimizing the former and eradicating the latter. |
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02/05/2007 08:42:49 PM · #177 |
Originally posted by nemesise1977:
Originally posted by jackal9:
Okay, I must say this is a very interesting thread, and I most say at this point I do believe in "God" how I define "God" may be a bit different than most...I define God as the life giving force in nature...as for the monothiestic nature of christianity, On this point have to disagree, to me any entity that is "supernatural" ie an angel or "Devil" is a god by definition, Satan is eternal, correct? the ex-right hand of god? I am not saying he should be worshipped but....still by how we (myself at least) define a "god" he would qualify, he is (as do the angels) an entity that isn't mortal and has the power to change the natural course of events in human relations or actions in those people that are weakminded or impressionable, so to say that Christianity is monotheistic to me is incorrect...the holy trinity debate aside.
I have another basic dispute with traditional Christianty...why are most of the Christian holidays based on Pagan festivals and holidays?? these predate Christianity by (in some cases) thousands of years? The Yule celebration for example, with it's mistletoe and the burning of the Yule log predate Christ by a good 2-3000 years...and of course there is also the mayday celebration, and easter, yeah Easter, the spring celebration of life with it's colored eggs and bunnys, both a Pagan symbol of rebirth and life. I was raised in a Seventh day adventist atomsphere so may that explain some of this...I don't mean to offend anyone but I am curious what everyone thinks.... |
Ok these are both pretty easy really. Accoring to Christianity we humans are all imbued with an eternal spirit that will never die, so we to are eternal beings like angels and God (except we have a starting point and I don't think God does) but we are not God nor are angels ect because he is the one sourse of everything, without him nothing else exist, eternal life is not a good Measure of God. And further more in the 10 commandments God instructed "I am the Lord your God and you sall worship no gods Before me" which sould make the others false gods or Other gods but not the one all Powerful God.
As for the hoildays, you are right most of Christian holidays are adaptations of pagen ones. The reason is simple though...to convert the pagens. The early church had a tough sell with somme pagen faiths so they adopted pagen holidays and put a christian twist on them in order to make pagen folloowers more comfortable, others wre brout in by pagens who became christians and wanted to keep their traditions alive to so they brought their holidays in and they spread to other areas. End result the Pagens and the early church blended familiar things to help convert the pagens. |
Okay, I wasn't as clear on my meaning in the original post as I should have been. First the monotheistic nature of Christianity....what I was driving at is that if we look at the major Pagan religions of the time we find for the most part the same basic hierarchy that exsists in Chirstianity, a main or creator god (Zues for example) and many lower or lesser gods that wouldn't be around were it not for the main god. In regards to the comment that we humans are eternal also, this is also understood in most pagan or animist (nature) religions (Valhalla, Nirvana) and these religions they address the gods as above them and the main or creator god above the rest of the gods...I see it as a matter of semantics nothing more. As an aside, very few pagan religions have a bad god all are capable of reprimands and punishment, but few pagan religions have a pure evil god....
Next the Holiday issue, I understand why the early church blended the holidays, to fill the pews so to say, my point was that it clearly states in the bible that God in no uncertain terms told his followers they were NOT to worship other gods, or participate in pagan rituals or holidays, yets every year (at least in this country, U.S.) pretty well the entire Christain population hunts easter eggs and has a Christmas tree and goes trick or treating, etc....
One last point...and I know it's going piss some people off which is not the point, I only want people to stop for a second and think about this with an open mind. The Bible. According to the Bible humanity began around 6000 years ago, where are the dinosaurs? We know they existed right so...which brings me to my point...they were before written word the accepted start of civilsation, the early books of the Bible were passed down through oral tradition...for generations, have you ever done the thing where like in high school the entire class of 40 or 50 people line up single file and the first person in line whispers a story or statement to the person next to them and then they pass it on to person next to them until it makes it to the last person in line? We did this in high school, trust me the resulting statement was hell and gone from the original...I think you see my point here good book yes...words to live by very much so...actual factual history? I can see no way that is possible. Once again I don't mean to offend anyone and all I ask is that you stop for just a second and think about it....
If anyone is interested there are a couple of books dealing with these subjects that you might want to check out, A History of God written by an ex-catholoic nun, she is a bit opininated but if you sift through her musings there is quite a bit of history there.
Also one called the Wheel of the Year this book goes into detail on the history of the major pagan holidays and what they represent on a religious level.
Jack |
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