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11/05/2003 10:17:45 PM · #51 |
I actually think it was a very good contest. I gave over 40 7 plus votes. Was there a ton of enties that really had no business being there? Yes.
Vote them low if you want (and I did), but appriciate the good photos that are there.
Message edited by author 2003-11-05 22:20:08. |
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11/05/2003 10:19:33 PM · #52 |
I voted on all the shots now, it was painful to get thru. I agree many were just plain bad shots. I gave much lower scores than I have been lately. I am glad I am done voting. I not even looking forward to going thru my top marks to sort those higher. : ( maybe next one will be better : ) |
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11/05/2003 10:31:37 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by SkiJumpNose: This is crazy, how hard is it to look up still life in the dictionary? ... I thought still life would have some amazing possibilities, but I've been proven wrong. |
Look up the word "still"
Look up the word "life"
Look up the word "art"
If the only way you can put these words together is to take a picture of a bowl of fruit lit softly from the side, then I think you are limiting yourself ...
BTW: you were "all over" my photo, so I know I'm on "the list." But thanks for leaving me a comment so I know something about what/why you disliked .... |
I'm sorry that you don't understand what I'm saying. I do not expect nor do I want to see 500 photos of a bowl of fruit lit softly from the side. I think still life encompasses many possibilities, but I haven't seen any pictures in this challenge that are great, or even really good (including mine) I was expecting to see some creative composition and some good quality pictures that took some thought and preparation. I at least attempted in my shot to capture an interesting composition with some lighting that I hadn't tried before, and I'm totally open to any comments on it because I'm obviously still learning. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be creative, but I just think that you can be creative within the theme, otherwise you shouldn't bother being in challenges. Sorry if I've offended you in any way. I'm not out to make ennemies. |
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11/05/2003 10:40:28 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by achiral: i think what it comes down to is this is a challenge site, we can all look at photos and see what it takes to win challenges here. wouldn't logic say that people would look at what is successful and work to at least emulate styles and themes, techniques and processes that have been proven to produce high quality photos? i just don't get all the rebellion against the idea of a narrow view of a challenge topic |
If everyone were to emulate another's style just because the masses found it appealing at a particular time, where would art go? There would be 300 of the same image in these challenges. Similarly , a narrow view of the challenge topic leads to endless boring photos. If we all took Still Life and went in the direction you want us to, we would all take a picture of the same objects. Where's the fun and interest in that?? Art is about expression and personal interpretation. Even if you don't see how a photo fits the challenge in your eyes, it met the challenge to the photographer. Tell them what they did wrong in the technical aspects of their shot, not how they should have interpreted the topic to please you. I'm not here to learn how to please you with my interpretations, but how to improve my photos technically. My interpretation of a subject is mine and it is what makes art so interesting to look at. Art is supposed to make you think.. to wonder how it was done and what the artist was thinking and feeling. What was going through the model's mind to produce that particular expression? To marvel at the artist's ability to take something ugly or ordinary and display its beauty. To make you think twice about the world around you and see it with new eyes.
Now, my image isn't doing all that great, and I expected that. In fact, the very things people say they don't like about it are exactly what make it so special to me. Does that mean it's a poor shot? Nope. It just means we like different things. It just means they don't see where I was going with the shot. Oh well. To each his own. Other then not liking the color (which was done on purpose), however, I have not gotten any comments on it being lacking in technical merit, therefore I think it is just fine.
Just my 2 cents (well, a little more then 2 but...) |
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11/05/2003 10:45:27 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by SkiJumpNose: I'm not saying that you shouldn't be creative, but I just think that you can be creative within the theme, otherwise you shouldn't bother being in challenges. Sorry if I've offended you in any way. I'm not out to make ennemies. |
I'm not offended. I am interested in the give and take of ideas.
I also didn't mean to imply that there's anything wrong with the "bowl of fruit" shot -- just I know if I did one like that, mine would likely end up near the bottom of the similar shots. This way, I'm near the bottom of the overall rankings, but am likely to have the very best shot of my interpretation.
Message edited by author 2003-11-05 22:46:35. |
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11/05/2003 10:45:33 PM · #56 |
not everyone starts out as an artist...i don't claim to be or claim to be even close, my point is people can take pointers from viewing other's photos that will help them develop an eye for something better, because no matter how good you are, there is always someone to look up to somewhere. it's just about improvement. just because someone can't think of anything creative to do in a "studio" setting doesn't mean that sunsets now fit the challenge because they are "still" and happen the night of the challenge entry deadline. what is the point of a challenge site if no one believes in defining anything? well at least 50% don't i guess
Message edited by author 2003-11-05 22:52:43.
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11/05/2003 11:32:33 PM · #57 |
A lot of submissions seem to have lighting and background problems. Maybe because a lot we are amateurs and still life is more or less a studio task...
I have been through a third and I think is gonna be another low scores challenge :( |
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11/05/2003 11:38:19 PM · #58 |
To all you 'artist' out there... if this was a college photography course and you were given an assignment to do a 'still life' shot, and you turned in a sunset shot or portrait shot and got an F, would you argue with the prof that it was your interpretation of still life?
This site is to help you learn concepts and techniques. The challenges are often based upon sound photographic backing. To put up something in a CHALLENGE because you think you can somehow shoehorn it in, although it isn't at all what a standard photographer would think of for the theme, then you're doing yourself an injustice. In just over one year I have gone from a point and shooter, to a hired out accomplished photographer. I'm not saying all my stuff is good, or dead on, but I try to take something as simple as still life, and use it to perfect that aspect of my portfolio. It's all these challenges added up together that make me feel confident enough to go out and try and sell my services and photographs.
Do it for the betterment of your photography. Even if your score tanks, but you have perfected a new technique, then you are better off for it.
-danny
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11/05/2003 11:45:51 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by danrm:
Literally speaking though, 'still life' should translate to a frozen impression of life - so can surely be an animate object? |
In that case every photograph ever taken is, by your definition, still life, as it has captured a moment in time. To me that is ludicrous. The term still life therefore becomes meaningless, both for photos and for the same reasons paintings etc.
Oops, well, every photo except those speaking ones in Harry Potter.
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11/05/2003 11:59:34 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by crabappl3: To all you 'artist' out there... if this was a college photography course and you were given an assignment to do a 'still life' shot, and you turned in a sunset shot or portrait shot and got an F, would you argue with the prof that it was your interpretation of still life?
This site is to help you learn concepts and techniques. The challenges are often based upon sound photographic backing. To put up something in a CHALLENGE because you think you can somehow shoehorn it in, although it isn't at all what a standard photographer would think of for the theme, then you're doing yourself an injustice. In just over one year I have gone from a point and shooter, to a hired out accomplished photographer. I'm not saying all my stuff is good, or dead on, but I try to take something as simple as still life, and use it to perfect that aspect of my portfolio. It's all these challenges added up together that make me feel confident enough to go out and try and sell my services and photographs.
Do it for the betterment of your photography. Even if your score tanks, but you have perfected a new technique, then you are better off for it.
-danny |
Funny you should mention college classes. this challenge happens to fall 3 weeks after our similar lesson in class. I darn sure would argue with him... although when he gives out assignments, he is extremely specific as to how they are expected to be interpreted and as they have a direct effect on both my grade in his class and my overall GPA I stick to what he wants... just as you stick to what you client wants when you do a shoot. This site, however, has no such effect on my outside life. It is just for FUN. Therefore, I CHOOSE to go for the outer edge of what a Still Life is classically defined as. I'm not about to give you or anyone else what you want or expect just to get a high mark when I am doing this as a fun thing. Anyone can sit down, look up Still Life in a book or online and give you people EXACTLY what you would think of as still life photos. How many people can make you rethink your definition of something? That to me is the true test of any photographer's skills. Can you think outside the box? Can you give me a Still Life photo that isn't a boring cliche?
Lastly, just for the heck of it, let's take a good look at what all your sacred techniques are. Do you think the photographers of the past sat down and said, Gee I'm gonna shoot a still life today? Heck no. They said shoot, that bowl of fruit would look really neat if I put it on that table with a complimentary colored cloth to really set it off. Just like poets don't sit down and say I think I'll write in iambic pentameter today. They just wrote what they felt and someone came along later and tore it apart because they couldn't do it themselves. "Techniques" were developed to teach the masses who didn't have the natural ability and talent how to imitate those who do. When I'm out shooting, ROT and DOF don't even enter my mind. I look at a scene and see a beautiful photo... so I take the shot. I like the way a leaf is contrasted by the others on which it lays so I shoot it. I take the beauty I see and try to share it with someone else. I'm sorry if photography isn't to you what it is to me, but that doesn't mean my interpretations are any less valid then yours. |
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11/06/2003 12:08:17 AM · #61 |
I don't know about any of you guys, but I can't wait to reread this thread after the challenge is over so I can compare the people talking about not being a "still-life" or giving low scores and find out what picture they submitted.
For the people scoring really low I hope to see a great photo from you or at least a comment of why it isn't a still-life.
Message edited by author 2003-11-06 00:11:49.
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11/06/2003 12:08:40 AM · #62 |
I agree to a point with you there MrsFuzzButt...
But if someone were to take a photo of something as they believe it is still life, and 100 people were then asked what they thought and NONE of them could agree that it was still life, then is the photographer's interpretation realistic?
One might argue that if the photographer has set out to take a photo of something that is "still life" and fails to convince anyone at all that it is "still life" then they have "failed" (for want of a better term) in getting their message across.
Or would all the 100 people be in the wrong for disagreeing?
(This is not aimed at all at MrsFuzzButt, but something to generally throw into the boiling pot here).
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11/06/2003 12:19:30 AM · #63 |
Originally posted by MrsFuzzButt: [quote=crabappl3] Lastly, just for the heck of it, let's take a good look at what all your sacred techniques are. Do you think the photographers of the past sat down and said, Gee I'm gonna shoot a still life today? Heck no. They said shoot, that bowl of fruit would look really neat if I put it on that table with a complimentary colored cloth to really set it off. Just like poets don't sit down and say I think I'll write in iambic pentameter today. They just wrote what they felt and someone came along later and tore it apart because they couldn't do it themselves. "Techniques" were developed to teach the masses who didn't have the natural ability and talent how to imitate those who do. When I'm out shooting, ROT and DOF don't even enter my mind. I look at a scene and see a beautiful photo... so I take the shot. I like the way a leaf is contrasted by the others on which it lays so I shoot it. I take the beauty I see and try to share it with someone else. I'm sorry if photography isn't to you what it is to me, but that doesn't mean my interpretations are any less valid then yours. |
Well, they aren't MY sacred techniques, if so I'd shoot that for the next challenge ;-)
I try to express myself in my photography, even if it is for something as cliche and boring as still life. My shot has great meaning to me, is well lit and executed, and isn't score sub 6. So I think I have achieved pleasing myself AND the voters, for it's not just for me that I enter images here... it's also so that others can enjoy what I create and don't, on a weekly basis, wonder why the heck I keep entering these silly contests.
I do intend to make money with my photography, and if I can't please my clients then I won't ever achieve doing anything more than wasting my time and money. The voters here, are to me, my clients. I try to please them with good quality shots that show more than the same ol' same ol'.
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11/06/2003 12:24:18 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by MrsFuzzButt: ...Just like poets don't sit down and say I think I'll write in iambic pentameter today... |
Actually, I think I HAVE actually done that ... but I'm in strong agreement with everything else. |
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11/06/2003 12:30:09 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by crabappl3: I try to express myself in my photography, even if it is for something as cliche and boring as still life. My shot has great meaning to me, is well lit and executed, and isn't score sub 6. So I think I have achieved pleasing myself AND the voters, for it's not just for me that I enter images here... it's also so that others can enjoy what I create and don't, on a weekly basis, wonder why the heck I keep entering these silly contests.
I do intend to make money with my photography, and if I can't please my clients then I won't ever achieve doing anything more than wasting my time and money. The voters here, are to me, my clients. I try to please them with good quality shots that show more than the same ol' same ol'. |
But if you are shooting something which pleases you, aren't you doing the same thing as I am?
This is NOT a site where the winning photograph gets published and the artist gets royalties. So why should we apply the same criteria? If the challenge is "Commercial Photo -- Trees Only" then you have a right to expect most of the shots to look roughly the same.
But if the challenge is "use your creativity to show us your interpretation of ___" I think it's unfair to expect everyone to submit commercially-viable shots; we are not (all) in class or training to be commercial photographers, and it saddens me that that's the only framework within which you want to judge photos.
Message edited by author 2003-11-06 00:31:05. |
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11/06/2003 12:36:55 AM · #66 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
But if you are shooting something which pleases you, aren't you doing the same thing as I am?
This is NOT a site where the winning photograph gets published and the artist gets royalties. So why should we apply the same criteria? If the challenge is "Commercial Photo -- Trees Only" then you have a right to expect most of the shots to look roughly the same.
But if the challenge is "use your creativity to show us your interpretation of ___" I think it's unfair to expect everyone to submit commercially-viable shots; we are not (all) in class or training to be commercial photographers, and it saddens me that that's the only framework within which you want to judge photos. |
B i n g o !
This is not spc (Stockphotochallenge).
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11/06/2003 12:38:31 AM · #67 |
Originally posted by GeneralE: But if you are shooting something which pleases you, aren't you doing the same thing as I am?
This is NOT a site where the winning photograph gets published and the artist gets royalties. So why should we apply the same criteria? If the challenge is "Commercial Photo -- Trees Only" then you have a right to expect most of the shots to look roughly the same.
But if the challenge is "use your creativity to show us your interpretation of ___" I think it's unfair to expect everyone to submit commercially-viable shots; we are not (all) in class or training to be commercial photographers, and it saddens me that that's the only framework within which you want to judge photos. |
You are mistaken if you think that I only vote high on 'stock' quality shots. There are often many images that move me in a challenge that use unique photographic techniques in their images. I can see photography as more than a 'stock' vs. 'art', but when someone takes a picture of little Susy, and puts it in a still life challenge, they are wasting theirs and my time. I don't spend my time and effort in judging and taking images to compete against anything and everything, even if it may, in the photographers vivid imagination, fit the challenge. Give me a break. You can't say that to you still life is a sunset over a lake! That's a landscape shot. A portrait of anyone, is not a still life. A photo of your pet, is not a still life. There really is no point in this drivel. The 'artist' must have a place to express themselves! So go ahead, express away... and I shall watch from the sidelines as you all exchange your vacation snapshots.
Message edited by author 2003-11-06 00:39:42.
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11/06/2003 12:42:50 AM · #68 |
Details: This is a classic subject for many forms of art. Be creative, and have fun.
This challenge did not say show us your interpretation. It says, it is a classic subject. Yes be creative, but it seems to me you could make a classic art still life, and still throw in your artistic flare.
-danny
Originally posted by faidoi:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
But if you are shooting something which pleases you, aren't you doing the same thing as I am?
This is NOT a site where the winning photograph gets published and the artist gets royalties. So why should we apply the same criteria? If the challenge is "Commercial Photo -- Trees Only" then you have a right to expect most of the shots to look roughly the same.
But if the challenge is "use your creativity to show us your interpretation of ___" I think it's unfair to expect everyone to submit commercially-viable shots; we are not (all) in class or training to be commercial photographers, and it saddens me that that's the only framework within which you want to judge photos. |
B i n g o !
This is not spc (Stockphotochallenge). |
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11/06/2003 12:50:26 AM · #69 |
i don't know about you but if the next challenge is water, i am going to take a picture of a person. hey we're made up of mostly water, right?
oh, and remind me to take a picture of my dog when road signs III comes around. |
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11/06/2003 12:51:34 AM · #70 |
hm... I think if anyone cannot make up their mind about what is still life, he or she can actually see things in reverse... As in... lets say if I should wonder if a landscape or portrait shot can be that of still life, then I should ask myself whether I can submit a bowl of fruits and declare it a portrait of fruits or a small landscape...
or perhaps we can require those who votes 1s or 2s to leave comments before their votes are counted...
Just some ideas...
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11/06/2003 12:57:00 AM · #71 |
If I carve a face into the apple, then it's a portrait right? :-D
Good perspective on it.
Truely y'all, we all have our own ideas and opinions. I will score as I see fit on whether or not the shot meets the challenge or not. That's all we can really do, right?
-danny
Originally posted by guobin: hm... I think if anyone cannot make up their mind about what is still life, he or she can actually see things in reverse... As in... lets say if I should wonder if a landscape or portrait shot can be that of still life, then I should ask myself whether I can submit a bowl of fruits and declare it a portrait of fruits or a small landscape...
or perhaps we can require those who votes 1s or 2s to leave comments before their votes are counted...
Just some ideas... |
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11/06/2003 01:10:46 AM · #72 |
Staying on task is a skill and noteworthy. Is it just me or are just about half the Still's actually Still's. Though it seems as if some folks are submitting for all sorts of reasons albeit as subjective as it is, I just don't see it appropriate too submit a great photographic work of a landscape or sunset under a theme of Still Life. I just don't think it is in the sprit of things! |
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11/06/2003 01:15:48 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by jefalk: Staying on task is a skill and noteworthy. Is it just me or are just about half the Still's actually Still's. Though it seems as if some folks are submitting for all sorts of reasons albeit as subjective as it is, I just don't see it appropriate too submit a great photographic work of a landscape or sunset under a theme of Still Life. I just don't think it is in the sprit of things! |
:-D
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11/06/2003 01:20:51 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by jefalk: I just don't think it is in the sprit of things! |
this is my whole point in one sentence.
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11/06/2003 04:51:04 AM · #75 |
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