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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> A question for network gurus!!
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 01/11/2007 08:56:33 PM · #1
We have 5 PC's networked in our house. 4 of these are wired directly to our router and one is via wireless. We promised our youngest son that when he turned 6 he could have his own computer. I'm finding that to connect via wireless to his computer isn't really working as his room is quite far from the router to run it wireless. The question I have is, is it possible to use a network splitter connector to run 2 wired connections into one port on the router? There is only 4 wired inputs for the router.

Many thanks!
 01/11/2007 09:06:37 PM · #2
Use one of those ports to go to a second router.
 01/11/2007 09:16:49 PM · #3
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Use one of those ports to go to a second router.


Ok, I never realised it was possible to run 2 routers in one network!! So if I put in another router near where his computer would be (his bedroom is next to his brothers who is wired up to our study) then I could just run them both on wireless?
01/11/2007 09:17:49 PM · #4
Well, I'm just an electronics guy, not a network Guru, but. . . .
Not a chance that that would work with a simple splitter like we use for phone lines. The router would get confused, and even if it didn't, it would try to assign both PC's the same IP address. The real problem with simply trying to use a splitter is that the data from the two PC's would combine into a gibberish signal.

In order to do this, you need a switch. (Basically a splitter on steroids, that has an uplink port to chain it into the router. :) You can then plug both computers into the switch and uplink the switch into the router.

Another option is to go ahead and go wireless on one of the computers closer to the router (freeing up a port on the router) and then run a wire to his computer.

Any network guys feeling a need to fix me on this, please pipe in. :)
 01/11/2007 09:21:25 PM · #5
Don't use a second router. It adds an extra layer of complexity to hour network that you don't need. Either use one of the ports on your router to connect to a network switch or pick up a wireless repeater.

If you go with the switch, you'll need a crossover cable to connect it to your router. A crossover cable is just a network cable that's wired differently, and for some unknown reason, they're usually yellow. The staff at your local computer store should know what it is.

ETA: If the switch has an uplink port, you won't need a crossover cable to connect it to your router, just a regular network cable.

~Terry

Message edited by author 2007-01-11 21:23:40.
 01/11/2007 09:22:02 PM · #6
Originally posted by Makka:
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Use one of those ports to go to a second router.


Ok, I never realised it was possible to run 2 routers in one network!! So if I put in another router near where his computer would be (his bedroom is next to his brothers who is wired up to our study) then I could just run them both on wireless?


Ouch. . . . No, I spent a couple of days not so long ago trying to make that work for a friend. The wireless routers won't talk to each other wirelessly.

I think that he was saying is that you need to use the other router basically as your switch, with two PC's connected to it, and it physically uplinked to the first router. (Did that make any sense?)
01/11/2007 09:22:57 PM · #7
You could add another switch. Another router could work, but it would be more work to set up properly. Depending on what wireless router you have, it might be possible to extend the range of it, I know linksys offers a range extending kit. A router is different from a switch in that it creates a new network to join up to an existing one. So in your case, it makes a home network joined from the ISP's network. A router can be expanded using switches which don't create their own network, but instead expand a router's by adding more available ports.

Edit to add: Too late, got beat by two people. A crossover cable is just a cable in which the wires are reversed on either end, so they go in the opposite order. You can make one yourself if you know how to make your own ethernet cables, or you can buy one and like scalvert said, your computer store will know what it is and can help you.

Message edited by author 2007-01-11 21:25:13.
 01/11/2007 09:23:21 PM · #8
Neil, what router(s) do you have right now. Some can be used as a switch or a router.
 01/11/2007 09:29:16 PM · #9
Originally posted by cryingdragon:
Neil, what router(s) do you have right now. Some can be used as a switch or a router.


It's a Netgear WGR614v5 Wireless Router.
 01/11/2007 09:35:41 PM · #10
It doesn't seem that particular one can act as a switch. Yeah, get a cheap switch and hook it up, then run the cat-5 into your son's room. In fact, I'd hook the switch to one of the ports and put all the kids on the same switch. It will slow their connection down a little, but nothing major and not affect the other computers.
 01/11/2007 09:37:45 PM · #11
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Don't use a second router. It adds an extra layer of complexity to hour network that you don't need. Either use one of the ports on your router to connect to a network switch or pick up a wireless repeater.

If you go with the switch, you'll need a crossover cable to connect it to your router. A crossover cable is just a network cable that's wired differently, and for some unknown reason, they're usually yellow. The staff at your local computer store should know what it is.

ETA: If the switch has an uplink port, you won't need a crossover cable to connect it to your router, just a regular network cable.

~Terry


What Terry said here is by far the easiest way either by using a wireless repeater or just add a network switch to your wired router and your good to go...

I have a router that connects to 2 gigabit switches and a Wireless Access Point (WAP for short) thats connected to one of the switches, all my puters are running on the gigabit switches and the WAP if for my PDA and notebook.

-dave

*edit*

Or cheeper yet you could just get a longer network cable and place the current wireless router in a more central location in the house ;)

*sorry Edit again*

Have a look here also before doing anything rash ;)

//kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n101318.asp

//kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n101374.asp



Message edited by author 2007-01-11 21:46:37.
 01/11/2007 09:42:07 PM · #12
Yup! Looks like the switch is going to be my best option. Thanks for your help there guys!
 01/11/2007 09:47:47 PM · #13
Dumb question, but can you move the router to a more central location? I just moved ours onto our main floor (it was in my computer room in the basement before), and it's so nice to get a strong signal on all three floors of the house now. Granted, I had to buy an extra wireless adapter for my basement computer, but it was definitely worth the effort.
 01/11/2007 09:56:27 PM · #14
Better to use a switch then another router. Most of them now don't need to deal with cross-over cables, so just plug it into a port on the router and you are set (cable/DSL into router and switch into router).

I would suggest a gigabit switch - You need an ethernet card on the PC's to also be gigabit to get the speed (optional as the slower speed card are still fine - @$20) but then all the machines on the switch can transfer a lot faster then ones on the old router.
 01/11/2007 10:02:05 PM · #15
Originally posted by alanfreed:
Dumb question, but can you move the router to a more central location? I just moved ours onto our main floor (it was in my computer room in the basement before), and it's so nice to get a strong signal on all three floors of the house now. Granted, I had to buy an extra wireless adapter for my basement computer, but it was definitely worth the effort.


Having a large family our house is quite big! Unfortunately our study where the router etc is located is at the very front and the kids rooms are at the very back. I'm very limited as to where I can place it. 3 of the kids rooms we had networked properly using faceplates etc and the cables run through the roof into another faceplate in the study.
 01/11/2007 10:20:22 PM · #16
Originally posted by Makka:
The question I have is, is it possible to use a network splitter connector to run 2 wired connections into one port on the router?


Yes, it's called a hub. You can buy a 4 port hub pretty cheaply. Then plug the hub into one of your router ports.
 01/11/2007 10:24:02 PM · #17
Linksys Wireless G Range Extender
 01/11/2007 10:33:13 PM · #18
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Linksys Wireless G Range Extender


This looks interesting....will see if I can source one locally! Cheers Leroy!
 01/11/2007 10:33:32 PM · #19
Depending on which model of linksys wireless router you have (wrt models) you can get an open source firmware downloaded into the router which will allow you to pump up the power of the wireless. That may help your range issues.

But if you are ready to string Ethernet cable to the computer that that will give you the best performance.

//www.dd-wrt.com/dd-wrtv2/index.php

Message edited by author 2007-01-11 22:34:38.
 01/11/2007 10:35:59 PM · #20
Originally posted by Makka:
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Linksys Wireless G Range Extender


This looks interesting....will see if I can source one locally! Cheers Leroy!


Just trying to save ya some trips into the attack :-)
 01/11/2007 11:27:51 PM · #21
You guys are making this way more complicated than it really is. Just get a 4 port hub for about $20, hook it into his brothers room and run off that. Unless his brother or both of them want to run pay for view TV or some other bandwidth hogging connection, it won't hardly be noticeable from the normal internet slowdowns. I run a 15mps fiber link, and sometimes the internet is no faster than my old DSL connection.

Also, make sure you are using security on your wireless, or half your neighbors (and anyone that wants to park outside your house) can tag along on your internet connection and slow you down and use up your bandwidth... not to mention do all kinds of things you don't want over your connection.

If you need to run cable, heating ducts are very good for this to get from room to room or between floors.

Mike


01/11/2007 11:55:01 PM · #22
Originally posted by MikeJ:
You guys are making this way more complicated than it really is. Just get a 4 port hub for about $20, hook it into his brothers room and run off that. Unless his brother or both of them want to run pay for view TV or some other bandwidth hogging connection, it won't hardly be noticeable from the normal internet slowdowns. I run a 15mps fiber link, and sometimes the internet is no faster than my old DSL connection.

Also, make sure you are using security on your wireless, or half your neighbors (and anyone that wants to park outside your house) can tag along on your internet connection and slow you down and use up your bandwidth... not to mention do all kinds of things you don't want over your connection.

If you need to run cable, heating ducts are very good for this to get from room to room or between floors.

Mike


Isn't that exactly what I said? The only difference is I recommended a switch instead of a hub, since the performace is better. Switches have gotten so cheap that it's silly to buy a hub.

~Terry
 01/12/2007 12:26:37 AM · #23
Networking is so much fun.

There are multiple ways in which you can extend your network. Ofcourse each with its own level of complexity.

Router behind router does work... and can be configured in three different ways. I wouldnt illustrate it here cos it would confuse you.

Club Juggle has the best alternative (if you want to go wired) and Fotoman has the best wireless option (except you cant use the Linksys product and would need to get a wireless access point (wap)). WAPs can act as wireless repeaters too thereby extending the range of the wireless network.

Third option and often not tried due to too much experimentation is fiddling with the Router's settings. They have a set of advanced settings which if played around a bit with, cn extend your network a bit more and even increase signal strength. Ofcourse you have to know more about each setting and what it does to make it work for you. Hence its most often ignored. Also for this to work you have to have been placed at just about the edge of the present network cos this will only extend your network so much.

Another tid bit most of us forget are other devices (e.g. cordless phones, microwave ovens) which might interfere with your networks. Where you place your router and receivers (wireless NICs) will also affect your wireless networking capabilities.

Hope this helps.
 01/12/2007 12:44:20 AM · #24
I wouldnt use a hub at all ... for anything... EVER...
In high speed networks above 10-base-T hubs cause contention (packet collitions) which equals much decreased network performance a switch (even a cheap one) is a better answer than a hub.

A router behind a router is not a good option for several reasons ...

saurablv said it about clubjuggle and fotoman they are right on.

BTW in my past life I did networks for a living ...
Cisco certified internetwork expert (CCIE) Microsoft certified network engineer (mcse) and a bunch of other alphabet soup


01/12/2007 02:23:05 AM · #25
Really I think that the best solution is the one that involves getting a longer piece of cat5 to go all the way from the existing router to the boy's computer upstairs, and then just give one of the currently wired-in boxes a wireless connection instead of taking up a port.

That way you don't have to buy a switch/hub.

Otherwise, yeah, get a cheap switch and use that. You probably won't need to worry about crossover cables, most devices auto-sense these days and fix it themselves.
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