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 12/15/2006 07:20:16 PM · #1
Hi there guys, I just was trying out my new Abs 800 x2 and a 400 studio setup and the results seem to be ok (some of the shots are posted in the portraits thread) anyways i just had a few questions after shooting,

Im using the 20D with a sync cord to one strobe at this point (no pocket wizards or anything yet)

first what mode do you shoot in most when in studio or on location? Tv Av or M?

also is there a way in auto mode to turn off the on board flash so it wont fire without having to put on my 580ex?

and what way is the best way to connect the strobes so that they wont fire as a result of someone else's flash firing.

and is there a way i can use my 580 as a back light ect without having it connected to the camera?

I know to make some of this work i might have to buy some more things i just need to know what and how.

Im sure i will have more questions soon but ill start with these.

Thanks for all your help everyone
Lee

12/15/2006 07:41:33 PM · #2
- I shoot in M with strobe or flash it's just easier.

-I think it's in the settings menu, but I could be wrong. I figured out how to turn it off when i first got my camera and have never missed it since.

-A radio setup (Pocket Wizard, MicroSync etc) is the best way to keep other flashes from triggering yours.

-Yes, you need a optical sync that has a shoe to trigger the flash. You'll also nned to keep the flash in Manual.
12/15/2006 07:48:59 PM · #3
Spazm got it covered for you...

Here's the thing about M mode as the best choice.

Aperture is going to control your exposure (as well as the settings on the strobes).

Your shutter speed is irrelevant, set it and forget it. I'd put it at 1/90 to 1/200 and leave it.

You Av and Tv modes or Auto hav eno way of metering your strobes since they are non-TTL. So, getting the exposure is up to you.

If you don't have a light meter, you need to do some test shots to determine correct exposure. Start at around f/11, take a test shot and determine from the histogram which way you need to go.
 12/15/2006 07:58:49 PM · #4
There is another way to trigger your AB's without other flashes interfering, but it's more complicated. Hardwiring. That means that you use sync cables to physically wire all the trigger circuits in parallel.

I don't know what the sync connector on AB's is like, but this is very easy to do with a pack that uses H-Plug connectors since all you need is a standard 2 wire household extension cord.

I used to do this all the time. It's a lot more reliable that optical slaves. A lot of the new strobes use a monoplug and not the H-Plug. I suppose you could build a custom cable if you're feeling handy.
 12/15/2006 08:04:59 PM · #5
ok so i was just testing in M and set for f11 and set the shutter to 1/100 however when i frame up the shot i get the exposure meter on the camera way to the left 2 stops down under exposed, do i need to look at that or can i just ignor it? I tried work on f11 to f16, how will i know whether it is exposed correctly? or am i doing something wrong?

btw i am getting the 358 light meter in the next few days

Thanks
Lee Mann
 12/15/2006 08:08:24 PM · #6
This might help until you get your meter Guide Number. You will need the Guide number for your AB's but they have that info on their site.
 12/15/2006 08:09:22 PM · #7
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
There is another way to trigger your AB's without other flashes interfering, but it's more complicated. Hardwiring. That means that you use sync cables to physically wire all the trigger circuits in parallel.

I don't know what the sync connector on AB's is like, but this is very easy to do with a pack that uses H-Plug connectors since all you need is a standard 2 wire household extension cord.

I used to do this all the time. It's a lot more reliable that optical slaves. A lot of the new strobes use a monoplug and not the H-Plug. I suppose you could build a custom cable if you're feeling handy.


Yea I was thinking about that the ABs use a 1/8 plug just like a headphone jack for say a ipod, only it looks to be mono. So are you saying i could just use some standard 1/8 connectors to all the strobes and as long as they only connect to the sync in the camera? that would do the trick? if so i could try that for now till i get the pocket wizards.
 12/15/2006 08:14:07 PM · #8
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
There is another way to trigger your AB's without other flashes interfering, but it's more complicated. Hardwiring. That means that you use sync cables to physically wire all the trigger circuits in parallel.

I don't know what the sync connector on AB's is like, but this is very easy to do with a pack that uses H-Plug connectors since all you need is a standard 2 wire household extension cord.

I used to do this all the time. It's a lot more reliable that optical slaves. A lot of the new strobes use a monoplug and not the H-Plug. I suppose you could build a custom cable if you're feeling handy.


Sorry, but that's not quite right. You use a sync cable to connect the camera to one light - the others will be triggered by the one wired one. Only one wire is necessary for any number of ABs. The synch wire is $7 for ABs.

12/15/2006 08:22:34 PM · #9
I already have sync cords for each strobe i was just wondering if there is any way i can hardwire them all together so they don't get triggered by other peoples flashes? also my M camera setting question about exposure got lost up there, if someone could shed some more light on that that would be great (no pun intended)
 12/15/2006 08:31:07 PM · #10
I shoot in studio in M mode only - but that's because I use a light meter to meter the space, then set the camera to the meter's settings & go.
12/15/2006 08:36:03 PM · #11
Originally posted by Lee_Mann:
ok so i was just testing in M and set for f11 and set the shutter to 1/100 however when i frame up the shot i get the exposure meter on the camera way to the left 2 stops down under exposed, do i need to look at that or can i just ignor it? I tried work on f11 to f16, how will i know whether it is exposed correctly? or am i doing something wrong?

btw i am getting the 358 light meter in the next few days


Yes, that's what you need the light meter for. Your camera's meter will never have a chance to see your AB output. So until you get a light meter, do this:

- Get an 18% gray card and hold it where the subject will be
- Zoom in fairly tight on the card and take a shot (firing the strobes)
- Adjust your aperture up or down until there is a bump (probably almost a straight line) right in the CENTER of your histogram. If it's on the right, it will overexpose, on the left, under.

Your shutter speed doesn't matter (at least anything below sync speed) because the flash duration is less than the shutter speed. So you speed up the shutter to let in less ambient light, or slow it down to let in more.

Message edited by author 2006-12-15 20:36:39.
 12/15/2006 08:53:39 PM · #12
irrelevant reply removed, note to self written about reading furthe rback in the thread

Message edited by author 2006-12-15 20:54:22.
 12/15/2006 09:04:27 PM · #13
Originally posted by Lee_Mann:
ok so i was just testing in M and set for f11 and set the shutter to 1/100 however when i frame up the shot i get the exposure meter on the camera way to the left 2 stops down under exposed, do i need to look at that or can i just ignor it? I tried work on f11 to f16, how will i know whether it is exposed correctly? or am i doing something wrong?

btw i am getting the 358 light meter in the next few days

Thanks
Lee Mann


Ignore it. Until you get your flash meter, you're just gonna have to either:

a) do test shots and look at the histogram
b) do the math from the guide numbers Wazz showed ya
c) pray you get it right ;-)

It's actually good that your camera's meter is showing under-exposure, becaus e that means you are not having much influence from the room's available light.
 12/15/2006 09:10:13 PM · #14
and once i do get a flash meter then it doesn't matter about the meter on the camera? how would i go about metering each light and setting the camera with the meter? i will be getting it in a few days so i guess i should know how to meter properly.
 12/15/2006 09:11:59 PM · #15
This is the reply I received from Scalvert awhile back. It really helped me get started. Thanks again Scalvert. :)
I now have a light meter, but generally just do a couple test shots and adjust as needed.

Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Marjo:
I just tried them out in the garage and I'm in a panic. I don't know what the heck I'm doing. I need a cheat sheet or something.


The down and dirty approach: Set your Bees to about 1/4 power. Put your camera on manual, with an aperture of f/10 or so, and a shutter speed of 1/160. Take a test shot and look at your histogram. Adjust the aperture (or your lights' power) up or down until the exposure comes out right.
12/15/2006 09:19:12 PM · #16
Originally posted by Lee_Mann:
and once i do get a flash meter then it doesn't matter about the meter on the camera? how would i go about metering each light and setting the camera with the meter? i will be getting it in a few days so i guess i should know how to meter properly.


No the camera's meter doesn't matter.

How do you go about metering each light? Whew! Ummm, that depends on what kind of lighting ratios you want, what effect you are looking for, etc.

Since you are newbie, it'll be best to tell you to meter for which ever light you want to be your main light and experiment from there. I'd go so far as to tell you to work with only one light to start and work your way up.

Really though, you really should pick up a book on lighting, because not even the best of the photogs here could answer that question in any detail in a forum post.

But, here is a site that might help ya get started: //www.photoflexlightingschool.com/index.html

Message edited by author 2006-12-15 21:21:01.
 12/15/2006 09:33:26 PM · #17
Thanks, i was just doing some more test shots (on a little stuffed Santa since its hard to get a model on a Friday night haha) anyways i was wondering why you need to work with such a high fstop i was using f11 and was getting some good exposure from it. Then i tried going to f16 and found that even near full power the lights it wasn't enough to get a good exposure. so i went back to f 11, but im wondering why you cant use a lower fstop and thus save power on the lights and get a faster recycle time and not have to push the lights so far. (im shooting bounce off of two umbrellas) should i try taking the black off the outside and shooting though them?
 12/15/2006 09:39:28 PM · #18
Just decreaase power on the lights and open your aperture. Remember that each stop of your camera is twice the amount of light (half if you are closing the aperture). So, if you put the lights at half power and swtich to f/8, you should get the same exposure at you would at f/11 full power.
 12/15/2006 09:40:27 PM · #19
use a IR remote and M you can get a good remote off TRADEME for about $30/40 NZ
12/15/2006 09:52:03 PM · #20
Originally posted by idnic:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
There is another way to trigger your AB's without other flashes interfering, but it's more complicated. Hardwiring. That means that you use sync cables to physically wire all the trigger circuits in parallel.

I don't know what the sync connector on AB's is like, but this is very easy to do with a pack that uses H-Plug connectors since all you need is a standard 2 wire household extension cord.

I used to do this all the time. It's a lot more reliable that optical slaves. A lot of the new strobes use a monoplug and not the H-Plug. I suppose you could build a custom cable if you're feeling handy.


Sorry, but that's not quite right. You use a sync cable to connect the camera to one light - the others will be triggered by the one wired one. Only one wire is necessary for any number of ABs. The synch wire is $7 for ABs.


The way you describe still depends on the optical syncs on the other lights, something the OP was trying to avoid. Your way will certainly trigger all of the lights, but so will anyone else shooting with a flash. ANY flash will trigger the lights. The OP was inquiring about ways to trigger all lights while making it impossible for other flashes to set off his lights.

In my first post I suggested wireless radio triggers, which are a popular option. However, a cable that simply connects all of the lights to the camera in parallel will allow triggering of all lights. without relying on the optical sync.

Looking at the AB website, I see they even sell the hardware to do just what I'm suggesting, look for the "sync hardwire kit".

Why would anyone want to do this? Well, it's more reliable than optical methods and won't permit someone else's flash to set off yours. It also doesn't require line of sight to work. It's cheaper than Pocket Wizards or other radio methods and I've been on shoots where RF usage is restricted.

12/15/2006 09:54:32 PM · #21
I would suggest you consider the new Alien Bees wireless flash trigger. (LINK) The trigger and one receiver run about $80 plus shipping and work very well.
 12/15/2006 10:11:02 PM · #22
When using non TTL or eTTL flash you have to shoot in M mode - full manual.
set the shutter at 1/125 - that is what is recomended by every strobe company. Yes, your X-sync for flash is higher, but you need to allow time for ALL the flash to be recorded, and studio strobes can have long flash durations (compared to speedlite type flash units).

you use a flash meter to read each flash at the subject location (usually with the meter's dome in and pointed at the flash you're measuring), and then all of them combined with the dome out and pointed at the camera.

the reason being you want say an F8 total exposure - you set the main light to read f5.6 and the fill to read F4 (1 stop lower for good modeling is about normal). that will read about F8 at the camera as the two lights add up. The third light, assuming you use it to light the BG needs to be at F8 for a normal BG exposure - you can set it up or down depending on what you want the BG to be - lighter and brighter for a more hi-key look or darker for lower key look. If you're using the third light as a kicker or hair light set it at 5.6 or 4 - the same as the main light (so some say) or 1 stop less (as others say) - the light on the subject is more specular in nature do to the angle and will appear brighter than it's setting would indicate.

Knowing theory is necessary, as it a flash meter - sekonic was giving away an instrucional DVD for free earlier this year - check their website. also, over at amazon search for a book by christopher grey on studio lighting (under $20) - it covers all the standard lighting types and layouts and shows how to do them with diagrams and sample photos of what's correct and not - great book for beginner or reference.
 12/15/2006 10:52:05 PM · #23
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
set the shutter at 1/125 - that is what is recomended by every strobe company. Yes, your X-sync for flash is higher, but you need to allow time for ALL the flash to be recorded, and studio strobes can have long flash durations (compared to speedlite type flash units).


By the way, I ran into this when I upgraded my studio strobes a couple of months ago.

I've had a pair of low end strobes for about 3 years now which have served me well, but which had slow recycle times ... 6 seconds at full power, a setting too often needed as they were under powered. I have used these strobes with my Canon 20D at 1/250th and with my 5D (which has a sync speed of 1/200th) with no problems.

My new strobes, which I love for their output, their consistency, and their recycle times, apparently behave differently in just the manner you described.

When I got the new strobes, I began shooting at 1/200th with my 5D and thought things were going well, until I noticed that the bottom edge of all of my images were darker than the rest of the image. As if a vignette had been applied to just one edge of the image. When I changed my shutter speed to 1/160th of a second, the edge went away.

So... even though the 5D says 1/200th sync speed, I now shoot at 1/160th whenever I use my new strobes. Lesson learned!


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