Bah i dont understand, help - DPChallenge Forums

12/12/2006 06:21:59 PM · #1

Ok can someone explain how exactly you find the shutterspeed and aperture you need for any situation, cuz i have no flippin clue how, something to do with AV and TV? Can someone tell me the steps as simply as you can cuz im going crazy. All my photos are turning out blurry and junk.

12/12/2006 06:25:55 PM · #2

you could shoot in full auto mode... (P)
or you could decide which is more important to you, stopping the action (shutter speed) or depth of field (aperature priority)
that's where i begin....

12/12/2006 06:33:17 PM · #3

ok im reading my manual about TV setting, so im looking at the subject and i set the shutterspeed to 100 but the aperture doesn't change! it just stays at 3.5, i hold the AV +- button while scrolling to change the aperture but it stays at 3.5 no matter if im at -2 or +2! This is the part that confuses me cuz in the manual it says that in TV mode you set the shutterspeed and the camera adjusts the aperture accordingly.

Edit: forgot to add that the 3.5 IS blinking and i cant adjust it so its not. I have the flash up and everything.

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 18:34:39.

12/12/2006 06:34:11 PM · #4

Originally posted by KaDi:

you could shoot in full auto mode... (P)
or you could decide which is more important to you, stopping the action (shutter speed) or depth of field (aperature priority)
that's where i begin....

Im usually aiming for shutterspeed but i cant balance the aperture (see my last post for the reason why)

12/12/2006 06:35:36 PM · #5

Quick rule of thumb for shutter speed. (Which may help counter some of the blurriness). You can only hand hold your camera at speeds that are faster than the inverse of your focal length. So if you have a 18-55 mm lens when you are zoomed right out (18 mm) you can hand hold at 1/18 of a second or faster. When you are zoomed right in (55 mm) you can only hand hold at 1/55 of a second or faster. If you can't hand hold use a tripod or a monopod. When I learned about this rule I quickly realized how many time I should have been using a tripod when I wasn't.
e.g. Pretty much anything indoors with regular lighting needs a tripod.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/12/2006 06:37:34 PM · #6

Originally posted by kawana:

3.5 is probably about as wide as you can go with your lens. It is likely blinking on your camera because of this. Its trying to go wider but can't. (Remember smaller number wider aperture)

Keep in mind that your flash is only good for so far. (another thing I've learned the hard way).

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 18:39:36.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

12/12/2006 06:38:04 PM · #7

Originally posted by kawana:

In TV, "the aperture adjusts accordingly" when you press the shutter release.

12/12/2006 06:45:58 PM · #8

so if you've set Tv and the shutter is trying to open as wide as it can (begging for light) then you've got to increase your ISO setting to something "faster" go from 100 to 200 to 400 etc... knowing that you're compromising image quality every time you do...

or use a flash...
or increase light in some other way...
or set Tv slower...

you've only got 3 variables here.
1. how long the shutter is open
2. how wide your shutter is open
3. how fast your recording medium (film, in the old days) is...i.e. "ISO"

edit to say, if you're taking pics of the kids in front of the christmas tree, then you could also intentionally "underexpose" by 1 or 2 stops since the room is dark anyway and you may want to preserve the "ambiance"

what's hard to remember is that cameras try to meter to an average grey...they try to make the world all acceptable and the same...but if it's dark and you want it dark, then underexpose a little...if it's light (out sledding in the snow or playing on the beach) overexpose a little...geesh! who wants a grey beach?!

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 18:49:04.

12/12/2006 06:46:06 PM · #9

Ok i didn't realize this room was too dark for it, i thought it just wasn't adjusting like it should (thought it was broken or something) but i tried it outside where its bright and it seems to adjust. So for now as im still learning would you say its better for me to use TV for taking pictures rather than manual so i know what ap and ss to use? and the whole 1/18 1/55 thing helps too thanks. I wish i had known this earlier more shots would have turned out lol. This bloody camera is starting to make more sence but its still confusing. Grown too used to my damn P&S camera over the years.

Im gunna go take some pictures of this forest near my house, for something like that where its relatively dark in the shade should i use AV or TV?

edit: for AV do i only use that when i want to set the dof? I thought it had something to do with brightness or something?? bah so many functions!

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 18:47:05.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-140mm f/3.5-5.6G VR

12/12/2006 06:49:23 PM · #10

Originally posted by KaDi:

arg more information! lol Ok so your saying that say i look at the subject while in TV mode, i have the shutterspeed to like i dunno.. 60 but the aperture is still blinking, that means i have to either open my flash, or if that still doesn't work, then i have to increase my iso from like 100 to 200 or more until it the aperture stops blinking?

Baxter

Nikon D500

12/12/2006 06:52:16 PM · #11

Spend the money and take a photography course at a local collage or buy a beginners guide to photography or trade in the DSLR on a point and shoot.

John Pahl

Nikon Coolpix AW 100

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

12/12/2006 06:56:09 PM · #12

Check this out and see if it helps.

12/12/2006 06:56:16 PM · #13

One thing to try out is using the auto settings then looking at what the camera "thinks" should be the aperture and shutter speed. Usuually the camera will try to do a combination that is sort of middle of the road. You can then adjust it from there. (i.e wider/narrower aperture; faster/slower shutterspeed).

So to sum up what the effects are:
Wider aperture: shorter depth of field (when you want just the subject in focus usually)
narrower aperture:
Deep depth of field. (When trying to get more elements in focus.)
fast shutter speed: Trying to freeze action or get a sharper picture
slow shutter speed: Show more blur. (Quite useful for things like waterfalls)

Obviously you'll want to adjust these things to simply allow more/less light into the camera but this just what it'll look like generally.

alfresco

Nikon D700

12/12/2006 06:58:07 PM · #14

Originally posted by Baxter:

... or buy a beginners guide to photography ...

Good advice.

Read Jodie Coston's online course (it's free).

Play with your camera, go slow and don't get frustrated.

I whole-heartedly disagree with 'trade in for a P&S'.

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 18:58:51.

12/12/2006 06:59:00 PM · #15

Originally posted by Baxter:

Spend the money and take a photography course at a local collage or buy a beginners guide to photography or trade in the DSLR on a point and shoot.

Amphoto's Complete Book of Photography: How to Improve Your Pictures With a Film or Digital Camera is a great book thats helped me a lot.

here

As for the point and shoot? Nah. You can go auto on your current camera and do P&S. Just shoot and shoot. Read books. Shoot some more. It'll come. Does it ever arrive though?...I wonder....

:)

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 19:00:18.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

12/12/2006 07:03:21 PM · #16

these are the basics of operating photographic equipment
we have all struggled with the concepts
but you have to do that too if you want to gain control of the "beast"

a camera is a light-eating beast
too much light and it begins to spew out pale images
too little and its images fade away into the black recesses of shadow and gloom
so...you need to learn how to "feed your beast"

if it's begging for light (the sensor's blicking) then you can:
1. give it a wider mouth (open aperature)
2. slow down the eating time (lower shutter speed)
3. give it steroids (increase ISO)

and reverse the procedure for brightly lit scenarios

(forgive me, i was a creative writing major)
:)

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

12/12/2006 07:13:53 PM · #17

Originally posted by kawana:

Im gunna go take some pictures of this forest near my house, for something like that where its relatively dark in the shade should i use AV or TV?

Aperture controls how much light is coming in. A smaller number = more light.

Shutter speed controls how long the light is coming in; higher number = faster shutter speed.

ISO controls how sensitive the sensor is to the light. Higher number = more sensitive.

That's all the information you need right now. Your basic approach is this: unless you have a tripod, in darkish lighting you need to work in Tv so you can set a shutter speed you can comfortably hand-hold and lock it in. The longer the lens (the more telephoto) the faster the shutter speed needs to be. For all practical purposes you need a shutter speed of 1/60 second or faster to hand-hold. With practice, you can hand-hold at 1/30 or 1/15 with a wide angle lens, but it's not easy.

So in your forest, with a widish lens (50mm or wider, say) set camera to Tv, set shutter to 1/60, and see what aperture it is giving you. If the light blinks, you need to increase the ISO to make the sensor more receptive to the low light level. With your 350, you can get nice results at ISO 200 and even at ISO 400. But in general, where you have the option, use the ISO 100 setting for best quality.

In bright situations this is reversed: you will tend to use Av and set an aperture in the middle of the range (f/11 say) and let the camera pick a shutter speed. You want your aperture in mid-range mostly, because lenses tend to perform better in that aperture range; stop then down too far and they are not as sharp, open them wide and they have inferior performance in the corners of the image. This is a rule of thumb, of course; every lens has its own characteristics.

R.

Apple iPhone 5

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

12/12/2006 07:22:15 PM · #18

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

In bright situations this is reversed: you will tend to use Av and set an aperture in the middle of the range (f/11 say) and let the camera pick a shutter speed.

That's interesting - I'm always reverting to f/8 for my 'mid-range' (don't ask me why!) For some reason I steer clear of the smaller apertures (f/11 - f/22), I adjust shutter speed instead.

In fact, I think I've only used f/22 a handful of times.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

12/12/2006 07:26:11 PM · #19

Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
In bright situations this is reversed: you will tend to use Av and set an aperture in the middle of the range (f/11 say) and let the camera pick a shutter speed.

That's interesting - I'm always reverting to f/8 for my 'mid-range' (don't ask me why!) For some reason I steer clear of the smaller apertures (f/11 - f/22), I adjust shutter speed instead.

In fact, I think I've only used f/22 a handful of times.

F/8, f/11, those are the midrange basically. On longer lenses, f/11, on shorter ones f/8. If you're using an f/5.6 tele lens, for example, f/8 is only one stop down :-)

R.

ETA: on longish telephotos, f/22 actually may be very usable. Since f/stop is the ratio between physical size of the aperture and focal length of the lens, f/22 on a 200mm lens is actually a reasonably-sized hole. One of the big problems with small apertures is the diffraction they cause as the holes get tiny. At 200mm, f/22 = approx 9mm. At 16mm, f/22 = .73 mm, a very small physical aperture that plays havoc with the light rays. And of course DOF is dependent on the physical size of the aperture, not the f/stop ratio, so if you want decent DOF with long lenses you simply have to stop them down. They are designed with this in mind, don't be afraid to do it.

R.

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 19:31:32.

12/12/2006 07:27:17 PM · #20

Ok thanks everyone this has cleared things up alot! I was going about this the wrong way lol. Well its way too dark now so first thing tomorrow im gonig out and putting this knowledge to good use, i do have a good tripod so ill try to take some nice pictures and post them here for further tips and stuff. Right now im gunna go down to the library and stock up on digital photography books and read till my eyes hurt, ill check out that free course you suggested too. wish me luck lol

12/12/2006 07:29:15 PM · #21

Originally posted by jhonan:

For some reason I steer clear of the smaller apertures (f/11 - f/22), I adjust shutter speed instead.

thats another thing that was throwing me off when you guys say use smaller apertures and what not, when i think smaller im thinking like 1 or 2, not the other end f/11 and f/22 lol im slowly starting to understand all this jazz.

alfresco

Nikon D700

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

12/12/2006 07:30:16 PM · #22

Best thing to do (imo) is to read and shoot. Shoot. Shoot. Read. Shoot. etc.

Good luck!! :)

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

12/12/2006 07:33:53 PM · #23

Originally posted by kawana:

Originally posted by jhonan:
For some reason I steer clear of the smaller apertures (f/11 - f/22), I adjust shutter speed instead.

thats another thing that was throwing me off when you guys say use smaller apertures and what not, when i think smaller im thinking like 1 or 2, not the other end f/11 and f/22 lol im slowly starting to understand all this jazz.

As per my last post, f/stop is the ratio between physical aperture and focal length of the lens. For this reason, it helps to think of aperture as a fraction: when you see "f.8" think 1/8; when you see "f/2", think 1/2. Obviously 1/2 is a larger number than 1/8, and thus f/2 is a larger aperture than f/8....

R.

Apple iPhone 5

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

12/12/2006 07:34:41 PM · #24

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

On longer lenses, f/11, on shorter ones f/8. If you're using an f/5.6 tele lens, for example, f/8 is only one stop down :-)

Ah, good info (including your edit)

Well, I've had the 50mm f/1.8 glued on for the past 6 months. Plus I'm a bokeh addict, another reason I don't use the smaller apertures! :)