Learning thread - Photo Impact Pro.

12/07/2006 12:12:26 PM · #26

Anyone know how to change to a CYMK color space? I want to try this idea about adjusting skin color //www.smugmug.com/help/skin-tone

12/07/2006 12:16:57 PM · #27

Click Adjust: Data Type then select which data type to use from the submenu. You can also do this directly by clicking Data Type (image) from the status bar.
Tip: To convert between data types while leaving your original file intact, select Adjust: Data Type - Convert as New Image, or click Data Type (image) on the status bar and select Convert as New Image. Clear this command to simply replace the data type of the image you are currently working on.
2. Depending on what data type you are converting your image to, a dialog box may open where you can specify conversion options. After specifying the desired conversion options, click OK.

12/07/2006 12:17:15 PM · #28

Originally posted by Alienyst:

no, not trying to give equal weighting, trying to achieve the look I wanted in b/w and why I do the black and white on separate layers so when merged back to the base image I get the qualities I want from both in the merge.

All the values i gave in my example can/should be adjusted for the pic you are working with. The purpose of my example was just to show a different method for conversion. That is why I asked June for the original pic she worked with so differences in final outcome would be obvious.

OK. The looks of the result probably can't be done by math alone, there's a lot of art there.

I noticed that you both had the spiderweb as a series of dots. That's tougher (for me) than getting the strings as lines and I think the dots look better. Congrats!

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

12/07/2006 12:25:26 PM · #29

Originally posted by Alienyst:

The only setting I could find under adjust->convert data type was "split CYMK" which outputs four images, one each for cyan, magenta, yellow and black. I'm looking for a way to adjust colors based on CYMK, rather than RGB.

Or at least I'm looking for a way to find the CYMK values, like the eyedropper tool shows RGB

Message edited by author 2006-12-07 12:28:43.

wavelength

Nikon D300

12/07/2006 12:41:13 PM · #30

Originally posted by hankk:

Originally posted by Alienyst:
Click Adjust: Data Type then select which data type to use from the submenu. You can also do this directly by clicking Data Type (image) from the status bar.
Tip: To convert between data types while leaving your original file intact, select Adjust: Data Type - Convert as New Image, or click Data Type (image) on the status bar and select Convert as New Image. Clear this command to simply replace the data type of the image you are currently working on.
2. Depending on what data type you are converting your image to, a dialog box may open where you can specify conversion options. After specifying the desired conversion options, click OK.

The only setting I could find under adjust->convert data type was "split CYMK" which outputs four images, one each for cyan, magenta, yellow and black. I'm looking for a way to adjust colors based on CYMK, rather than RGB.

Or at least I'm looking for a way to find the CYMK values, like the eyedropper tool shows RGB

Not familiar with the program, but could you just layer them back together and adjust them individually. I know it's "destructive" editing, and probably a PITA, but..

12/07/2006 03:30:29 PM · #31

What I would like to do is successfully desat part of the image and maintain color in another part. I have tried hue shift by using the range setting, but can't get it in basic. I know it can be done in photoshop because I have done it, but in PI, I have succeeded in only doing it under advanced editing. Is there a trick to it, or is the program just not able to do that.

Here is the color image.

Here is the not totally successful desat.

What I would like to do is keep the shirt blue, but in my desat there is still some color in the hat and very subdued color in the flag.

Editing: First off I went to hue and saturation, chose range setting, put the slider across everything but the blue channels, then put saturation down to -180, which is the maximum I can do with my version. Then I adjusted brightness and contrast to make image more contrasty

Message edited by author 2006-12-07 16:28:26.

12/07/2006 03:54:08 PM · #32

Originally posted by ladymonarda:

What differentiates the two parts of the image?

12/07/2006 03:58:39 PM · #33

Originally posted by wavelength:

Originally posted by hankk:

Originally posted by Alienyst:
Click Adjust: Data Type then select which data type to use from the submenu. You can also do this directly by clicking Data Type (image) from the status bar.
Tip: To convert between data types while leaving your original file intact, select Adjust: Data Type - Convert as New Image, or click Data Type (image) on the status bar and select Convert as New Image. Clear this command to simply replace the data type of the image you are currently working on.
2. Depending on what data type you are converting your image to, a dialog box may open where you can specify conversion options. After specifying the desired conversion options, click OK.

The only setting I could find under adjust->convert data type was "split CYMK" which outputs four images, one each for cyan, magenta, yellow and black. I'm looking for a way to adjust colors based on CYMK, rather than RGB.

Or at least I'm looking for a way to find the CYMK values, like the eyedropper tool shows RGB

Not familiar with the program, but could you just layer them back together and adjust them individually. I know it's "destructive" editing, and probably a PITA, but..

I'd have to first change each image from monochrome to color, then change the color of each layer to C, Y, and M (ok, black stays grey-scale) then grab layers from each one and construct an image, all to get what I hope is the original color image. But there may be an issue: CYMK may not work with additive colors of light.

12/07/2006 04:32:22 PM · #34

bump

Message edited by author 2006-12-07 16:33:14.

12/07/2006 04:32:57 PM · #35

Originally posted by hankk:

Originally posted by ladymonarda:
What I would like to do is successfully desat part of the image and maintain color in another part. I have tried hue shift by using the range setting, but can't get it in basic. I know it can be done in photoshop because I have done it, but in PI, I have succeeded in only doing it under advanced editing. Is there a trick to it, or is the program just not able to do that.

What differentiates the two parts of the image?

12/07/2006 06:43:53 PM · #36

Originally posted by ladymonarda:

I don't know if I can answer the question, but when you call up the hue and saturation screen, there are three choices on mine near the bottom. One is Master, one is Range and one is Colorize. Under them is a bar with the various color channels. When you choose range and slide the slider to a certain area, that is the part of the range in your image that will be affected. For instance, if I want to add more saturation to an image in basic, I choose the channel I want, (say red) then adjust the saturation in the upper part. In my image only the red will be affected. I think this is legal in basic. I have used the technique on a few of my images and was never sited for doing an illegal manuever[quote=hankk] [quote=ladymonarda] What I would like to do is successfully desat part of the image and maintain color in another part. I have tried hue shift by using the range setting, but can't get it in basic. I know it can be done in photoshop because I have done it, but in PI, I have succeeded in only doing it under advanced editing. Is there a trick to it, or is the program just not able to do that.

OK, you want to desaturate all colors except a given range.

You're almost there, the trick is that you have to move at least one slider to the other side of the bar. Just grab it, move it off the end of the bar, and it ill reapear on the other side (you have to look hard for it).

Here's an example using the picture you posted before. For those who are not familiar with this feature, the range sliders show a dark region for the area that will be acted on, and white for the area that will not be acted on. The grey will be gradually acted on (if that makes sense) . In this case, reds were not acted on (desaturated) while greens were fully acted on (desaturated). Blues were acted on in a gradual manner--the blue shades near red were very slightly desaturated, while the shades near green were heavily desaturated.

Message edited by author 2006-12-07 18:47:56.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

12/07/2006 07:03:19 PM · #37

That is what I was referring to in earlier post on other thread about PS having more color capabilities. The method you describe works well, but it takes some getting used to. Once you get it though, the selective desat works great and is basic legal. One of the tools I have yet to get a good grasp on though. Hence, all my desats or selective desats have been in advanced. One of these days I will get it right though.

wavelength

Nikon D300

12/07/2006 07:07:58 PM · #38

Originally posted by hankk:

Oh, I thought it was creating color separation layers for large run files.

MaryO

Nikon Z8

Nikon NIKKOR Z 28-400mm f/4-8

12/07/2006 08:56:29 PM · #39

Originally posted by hankk:

Here's an example using the picture you posted before. For those who are not familiar with this feature, the range sliders show a dark region for the area that will be acted on, and white for the area that will not be acted on. The grey will be gradually acted on (if that makes sense).

The best way I've found to understand what these particular controls are doing is to create an image with several squares of pure color. So I can see when I move the saturation to -100 for cyan in the range, for example, that cyan goes to pure gray (the lower color bar shows the transformation below the sliders, but it's easier to see in the dual view window or if I have preview turned on). Hope that makes sense ;-)

12/07/2006 09:22:34 PM · #40

Originally posted by wavelength:

Originally posted by hankk:

I'd have to first change each image from monochrome to color, then change the color of each layer to C, Y, and M (ok, black stays grey-scale) then grab layers from each one and construct an image, all to get what I hope is the original color image. But there may be an issue: CYMK may not work with additive colors of light.

Oh, I thought it was creating color separation layers for large run files.

It is, which is why its not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a way (in PI) to measure the CYMK values because an article about skin tone color correction (well, for Caucasians) says to make sure the value of yellow is higher than the value of magenta (and gives a few other tips).

12/08/2006 07:24:41 AM · #41

I am in a territory I know nothing about, but what I did was first select an image, then I used the magic wand to move it. This creates a second image called untitled 1. Then I went to Object and changed the image to text path. After this, I went to Adjust, then converted data type to Split CMYK. Now I have four images. That is as far as I have gotten. Each image has its own code. One is c, one is m, the other is k. They are all black and white images. Now what do I do, and what is the purpose of having a cmyk split? Is this right so far?

Originally posted by hankk:

Originally posted by wavelength:

Originally posted by hankk:

I'd have to first change each image from monochrome to color, then change the color of each layer to C, Y, and M (ok, black stays grey-scale) then grab layers from each one and construct an image, all to get what I hope is the original color image. But there may be an issue: CYMK may not work with additive colors of light.

Oh, I thought it was creating color separation layers for large run files.
It is, which is why its not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a way (in PI) to measure the CYMK values because an article about skin tone color correction (well, for Caucasians) says to make sure the value of yellow is higher than the value of magenta (and gives a few other tips).

Message edited by author 2006-12-08 07:58:05.

12/08/2006 08:00:21 AM · #42

It appears I am the only one who knows very little about this program. I know I am getting some info, but all of you are already so advanced that I guess you won't get anything out of it. Do we continue, since I am the one who is the least familiar with it? I could just pm people to ask questions. Any thoughts?

Nikon NIKKOR Z 28-400mm f/4-8

12/08/2006 08:26:23 AM · #43

I am far from an advanced user, just not afraid to play with the tools and options. This is the only way to learn if there is not a thread like this. For the things I am unsure of I find another way to achieve the same thing and then usually just use that. But the tools made for the purpose is the best way to get the most from it. There are a lot of tools I have never used or even looked at. For example, the selective desat mentioned above, I never knew the slider would come around to the other end. Perhaps this is why it never worked as I wanted it to. Now I know and will work with it to get the technique under my belt.

CMYK is not a usual processing step and generally used for printing only. Since I have other tools I use for printing I never bothered to explore it.

MaryO

Nikon Z8

12/08/2006 09:00:38 AM · #44

I don't think I would dare call myself advanced! Not a beginner, though. I am quite positive there are many things I could learn. Should learn, really. There are quite a few tools I've never used, and others where I may know something someone else doesn't. So I can contribute more or less to the thread depending on which tools/techniques we're discussing.

The CMYK adjustments, for example, are something I played with and never did figure out how to do (I use SmugMug, too, and dutifully read their article on skin tones). So I've been watching to see if someone comes up with something useful, but I can't be the one :-( That's the risk with asking questions; it may be that no one has a definitive answer and the thread gets quiet.

12/08/2006 10:13:11 AM · #45

For CMYK files you can set the way PI opens them in preferences - either as separate images or combined.

Preferences > General > Open and Save , under CMYK specify whether to open as combined or separated.

12/08/2006 11:59:49 AM · #46

I'm not advanced either. I think everyone has found a trick or two that they use, and we could benefit by sharing them.

IMO, one of the biggest problems with PI is the lack of documentation (well, that and the instability when editing large files). The help screens aren't really all that helpful. Virtually all tutorials not produced by ULead are for PS, so what we need is a way to translate PS commands to PI :-)

On the other hand, ULead does have some good tutorials on PI, just not enough of them.

12/08/2006 12:35:43 PM · #47

The manual is not that bad for documentation. Lacking in some areas, yes, but general idea/direction/info is pretty good. I agree with the help screens.

There are a lot of sites with tutorials for PI, just not the current version. Mostly versions pre 10. PI's tutorials are kind of lame in that they cover areas that appear to be for beginners or at least they cover them not in enough depth for what we would like to do with it.

As far as PS tutorials and converting them to PI - this is what I have done from day one. Some are easier than others to transpose, but most I have found that don't use actions are fairly well transposed. And the actions can be converted as well if you create 'tasks' for them.

12/08/2006 12:41:55 PM · #48

Ok, back to CMYK - if you do open them as split images, do your adjustments on each individual layer then go back to Convert Data type and select COMBINE from CMYK and you will see a noticeable difference on the image.

if you study your original image and note where and what changes you would like, the adjustments are easier to make on the split images.

12/08/2006 09:12:55 PM · #49

Originally posted by Alienyst:

Thanks, but I'm looking for the easy way to do it :-)

The smugmug page mentioned a way to do the work in the RGB space (use levels and pull the middle slider of the blue channel to .90, then use hue & saturation to pull the reds down a bit) but I wanted to try the tip about making yellow > magenta.

I have a couple of fair skinned daughters, and one played basketball. During and after a game, there was a lot of red in her face and I wanted to tone it down.