Learning thread - Photo Impact Pro.

12/06/2006 11:52:10 AM · #1

I have taken the liberty to copy the last few comments on the previous thread. This is the official learning thread for Photo Impact Pro. First question comes from Mary O

12/06/2006 11:53:06 AM · #2

12/06/2006 10:31:32 AM From Mary O.
I got a free version of PI (I think it was called something else then, but don't quote me) and have stuck with it ever since. I'm on v.11 at the moment; I think I upgraded to get the RAW processing.

I don't feel I've even begun to scratch the surface of what PI can do. I look at PS tutorials and then go mess with PI and most of the time end up smacking myself for not noticing some feature that would have made my life easier ;-)

Can't see shelling out the bucks for PS when I haven't exhausted the limits of what I've got.

BUT, since we have this thread ;-), can we start the learning with a huge question that has been driving me batty and could push me over the edge to PS: how do you get PI to recognize different monitor profiles? XP sees them, but when I try to softproof in PI it never lists any monitor profiles. Lots of printers, only "default" for monitors ... argh!

12/06/2006 11:54:00 AM · #3

This comment came from Alienyst in answer to Mary O's question.

12/06/2006 10:45:28 AM
My monitor profile is on the PC and in use all the time - it is not separate profile for use in PI. The printer profiles, however, like you said, are monitored in PI and selectable depending on which printer I am using. Hope this helps

Nikon NIKKOR Z 28-400mm f/4-8

12/06/2006 11:57:42 AM · #4

Okay, since I have never done one of these before, I am hoping to get some help from others who have used the program. Not sure how to start, but I figure one of the ways is to start with an unedited image, then the edited version and then we can discuss the workflow and the steps used to process the image. I think we need to start with a basic editing process first as to what is legal and not legal. Let me see if I have an images that I can do this on, then set one up. Any other ideas or ways to approach this would be greatly appreciated.

MaryO

Nikon Z8

12/06/2006 11:58:09 AM · #5

Thanks for moving this topic over :-)

The issue is that I can't use the color management features to softproof unless I can pick a monitor profile, and PI isn't seeing any.

12/06/2006 12:07:57 PM · #6

I think this might be an issue for some of the IT folks who come here. I have a feeling that you need to set up the monitor in another part of the hard drive. I think it may be something you need to set up before photo impact can read it. I have looked through my computer set up and can't find anything yet, but I think that is why you see nothing. I see nothing as well.

Nikon NIKKOR Z 28-400mm f/4-8

12/06/2006 12:21:06 PM · #7

Hey mary, I think I got something. I just went into my computer display and called up monitor, set it to sRGB color management, and now I get a monitor choice in the preferences under PI.

MaryO

Nikon Z8

12/06/2006 12:54:38 PM · #8

Lost ya'. I'm running XP Pro and have the "Color" management program downloaded and installed in my Control Panel, but there's no "Monitor" per se in the Control Panel. The Color program lets me merrily select all sorts of profiles (sRGB, Adobe RGB, Huey, etc.) for my display and those change how my monitor displays colors, but they never show up in the PI dropdown.

None of this matters much for web pix but it's an issue with prints. For me, anyway ;-)

12/06/2006 01:29:42 PM · #9

Go to control panel, and call up Appearances and Themes. when that screen comes up go to display. At this point you will get another screen. There should be several sub titles on the top. I went to settings, then went to advanced and got another bunch of subtitles. Then I went to color management, set it to sRGB and that I think was it.

12/06/2006 01:31:23 PM · #10

Okay, I decided to start with a black and white conversion. I use a method which some of you may or may not have tried. Here are the two images, the unedited one and the edited one.
Web unedited.

Web edited.

Here are the steps I used. The image isn't exactly like my entry, but there may have been a few more things I did, like play with toning map or levels. Can't be sure.

Steps -
1.)Crop

2.)Open up High Dynamic Range. You need to set a camera curve unless one already exists on the list. I applied the preset under Minolta DImage 5. Then adjusted contrast by 13.

3.)Go to enhance and change to monochrome.

4.) Go to enhance again and change to duotone. In that screen enable sepia toning and then highlight Duotones 1 preset. At this point you adjust your black and white slider to something you find pleasing.

5.) Go to brightness and contrast screen and fine tune. My settings, brightness - 9, Contrast - 6, gamma - 0.92

5.) Save as jpeg.

6.) Open neat image and open up the file. Do profile. I applied the following filter - Filter more of thin lines (residual high frequency JPEG artifacts)Apply and process in queue, then save.

7.) open up filtered version. Go to sharpen once more and refine further. I used a setting of 28 for sharpen and 4 for reduce noise.

8.) Resize
9.) Do one final sharpening if needed.

There is still some noise issues, but you can try reducing noise through PI, or trying the advanced settings under neat image to reduce your noise in the red and yellow channels. Many ways to approach an image like this. Just wanted to share this unique way, by using duotones. If anybody wants to try the method, take your best shots and use it. Then share with all of us your approach to handling black and white conversion.

Message edited by author 2006-12-06 13:36:41.

12/06/2006 01:39:27 PM · #11

I have no software here to follow steps, but when I get home I will add another B/W conversion technique for comparison. June - for continuity, can you send me the original image you used? PM for email if you need it.

12/06/2006 01:56:39 PM · #12

I use PI but am considering switching to PS CS2. Elements seems a lot faster than PI on big files, does anyone know how the speed of CS2 compares to PI?

12/06/2006 02:00:51 PM · #13

I'm using an Nvidia GEForce TI4600 with dual monitors. PI has trouble with color management (it won't allow me to select a monitor) and also has issues with some controls. Does PS CS2 have issues with dual monitors?

Here's the support request and response from Ulead:

Question/Problem: Photoimpact doesn't handle dual monitors 100% correctly.
i have two monitors -- monitor 1 is on the left,and 2 is on the right. only monitor 2 is calibrated, so that is my main workspace. I put the layer manager on monitor 1 on the left.

When I change the percentage transparancy of a layer, the slider shows up on the right monitor (it should be on the left monitor, under the control box). The mouse, however, stays on the left monitor and the slider is set to the leftmost position.

Other boxes do this, but the transparancy is the one I use most.
-------------------------------------------

Hi Hank,

This is alread a limitation of the overlay capabilities of your video card or video card drivers. Please contact your video card manufacturer for support.

Thank you and have a nice day!

Message edited by author 2006-12-06 14:01:36.

12/06/2006 02:03:59 PM · #14

What do you mean by speed? Truthfully, I used cs2 for a month, and I believe that if you want to do an edit quickly, cs2 does go faster. I found that I couldn't control as many details using cs2, but I have the time to put into a lengthy edit. Of course, I only had a month to play with it. I am sure I did not even scratch the surface of cs2. Anyway, since dp is pretty much the only place I play, I don't need to invest in cs2. I am doing some volunteer work for churches and towns photographically, and I run an open gallery in my yard in the summer, but find that PI suits my needs currently. Once you can start doing batch processing, etc, in PI, I think it is comparable in time to cs2.

12/06/2006 02:05:43 PM · #15

Originally posted by hankk:

I use PI but am considering switching to PS CS2. Elements seems a lot faster than PI on big files, does anyone know how the speed of CS2 compares to PI?

One way to increase the speed of PI is to do a partial load before editing. This will make the editing much quicker.

Anyway, I would like to keep the thread more to editing processing. I don't need people saying in this thread that ps is better. That is not the purpose of this thread. We are simply trying to learn new or better ways to process using PI.

If you can offer something through PS that might be similar, by all means add it. However, no comparisons of the two programs please, just information regarding technical tips and tricks. Thanks. (Listen to the teacher, or you'll be put in the corner.)

Message edited by author 2006-12-06 14:22:31.

12/06/2006 02:10:22 PM · #16

You can do batch processing in PI, at least in ver. 12.

hankk - I run three monitors on my main system at home. I have no problems with speed - PI is very fast on my machine anyway, in fact faster than PS on my other machine which has a faster processor and more memory. As for the controls, I don't think it is an issue of your card, but your monitor/workspace set-up. PI defaults to the #1 monitor for controls. if you switch the monitors around, you will find all works well. I use the #1 monitor for workspace, #2 for all panels and controls, #3 for all previews. never had a problem. Also, once you move a control or panel somewhere, if you do not update your workspace layout, it will always go back to PI's default location.

What version of PI are you using? I have separate profiles for all three monitors and PI allows me to select then just fine. In fact, once selected it will always use that profile for the related monitor.

Hmm...I think I mis-spoke in the other thread about monitor profiles...what was I thinking?

Message edited by author 2006-12-06 14:19:34.

12/06/2006 02:13:36 PM · #17

The image is sent. Have fun.

Originally posted by Alienyst:

12/06/2006 02:17:44 PM · #18

received and responded...thx!

Nikon NIKKOR Z 28-400mm f/4-8

12/06/2006 04:10:39 PM · #19

Originally posted by Alienyst:

I'm using PI 12. The issue may be that it doesn't support the graphics card I use, but then my system is four years old, and getting a bit long in the tooth.

Thanks for the info about PS SC2, I guess that PI is more in its class than PS elements.

The tough thing about switching to PS is the price, both the initial price and the recurring upgrade price. After a few years, you could have a very nice lens collection with the money you save.

MaryO

Nikon Z8

12/06/2006 05:17:48 PM · #20

Two things: you *can* do batch processing in PI. I've done it many times. In v.11 the command is under Window - Batch Manager, and you need to have the batched files open, then you select which ones you want to execute the command on. You have a pretty wide range of editing options.

There are some ways to do batch conversions, too, hidden under Save/Save As and then invoking the Options dialog box, at least for JPG. That's the only format I've converted to.

And I think there are batch possibilities with the File Browser utility if you use that. Haven't used it in awhile, though.

Second, while I have Neat Image I haven't used it since I started playing around with Photo - Noise - Reduce Noise. You can specify the amount of noise to reduce and the amount of sharpness you want. There's also a slider for Image Opacity but I haven't figured out what difference that one makes yet. I've been pretty happy with the noise reduction when I've used this tool.

Will go back and look at my monitor stuff again in a bit ...

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

12/06/2006 06:44:52 PM · #21

ok, I tried to get as close to June's crop as I could. Steps involved (and this is legal in Basic):

With image open, duplicate image in layer manager so there are three layers (including base image):

layer 1: 100% desat, levels 50/1/255 - black adjustment only; 35% transparency; merge normal
layer 2: 100% desat, levels 0/1/200 - white adjustment only; 35% transparency; merge normal

I do these on separate layers because I want what my eye tells me is the right amount, so the values certainly can vary. But I have found doing the black and white separately allows me to concentrate on the areas I want to emphasize or de-emphasize with better control.

base image: contrast 50%; levels 5/1/249. On this level I adjust the contrast to where I like it knowing the final result will be in b/w and not color.

merge all layers - all set to normal - allowed in basic

sat -25, gets rid of any remaining color tones from the base image layer
levels 5/1/250 - shouldn't take much at this point depending on the look you are going for. on this image I wanted the background muted so the fly and web stood out.

Cropped - tried to match June's crop as close as I could. resized to xxx x xxx at 96dpi (display default).

Sharpen 10
Neat Image - default
Sharpen 10
USM .5/150/0
NI default
Sharpen 10
Save for web

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

12/06/2006 07:24:23 PM · #22

You can alter transparency of layers in basic?

12/06/2006 09:51:13 PM · #23

Originally posted by routerguy666:

You can alter transparency of layers in basic?

yes, you just have to make sure they merge in normal mode ('Always' in PI as seen on the layer manager).

Message edited by author 2006-12-06 22:17:15.

12/06/2006 11:17:12 PM · #24

Originally posted by Alienyst:

Are you trying to give each layer about equal weighting?
I thought you had to give each layer a different transparency to make them all equal--the bottom would be 100%, the next layer 50%, the next 67%, then 75%, and so on

the formula for each level would be 1 - (1/layer#) where layer# is the number of the layer, base layer is 1, next layer is 2, and so on. See //episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/99609816/m/114007712831 and remember that PS opacity is in the opposite direction of PI transparency (fully transparent is 0 in PS, 100% in PI)

Message edited by author 2006-12-06 23:17:32.