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11/29/2006 09:02:44 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by sherpet:
It just peeves me that some people just arn't very nice, and I think that is what really upset me the most.
Life is just to short, not to be nice.....
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So, if i give you a ten, I'm nice, but if I give you a one, I'm mean? |
If you give a one and a constructive comment on how to improve, you're still nice. If you just hit and run, you're not only a troll but a coward. |
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11/29/2006 09:05:04 PM · #27 |
I don't believe "trolls" exist. It is a myth. There is no statistical evidence to support their existence.
That is not to say that there aren't people who occasionally vote low, there are, but not enough of them and not often enough to be statistically significant.
The real truth is that average DPC voters give horribly low scores. The average score given submissions is somewhere around 5.1-5.2 which is pathetically low.
If anything, I'd called that institutionalized "troll" voting.
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11/29/2006 09:05:57 PM · #28 |
| My average vote cast is a little less than "nice" (5.43) - but that is an accurate reflection of me. :) |
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11/29/2006 09:10:49 PM · #29 |
oooh, didn't realize mine was at 4.9, even though I have been more considerate lately. I guess I'm just a critical gal. Also I tend to score people low and high, but not so much in the middle, so that's probably why. Don't worry y'all, it's goin' up :)
Message edited by author 2006-11-29 21:11:08. |
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11/29/2006 09:31:25 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Blue Moon:
oooh, didn't realize mine was at 4.9, even though I have been more considerate lately. I guess I'm just a critical gal. Also I tend to score people low and high, but not so much in the middle, so that's probably why. Don't worry y'all, it's goin' up :) |
I know I'm being rude and I apologize, but I might suggest that what you call being a "critical gal" is what others in this discussion might call "troll" voting.
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11/29/2006 09:39:30 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by Blue Moon:
oooh, didn't realize mine was at 4.9, even though I have been more considerate lately. I guess I'm just a critical gal. Also I tend to score people low and high, but not so much in the middle, so that's probably why. Don't worry y'all, it's goin' up :) |
I know I'm being rude and I apologize, but I might suggest that what you call being a "critical gal" is what others in this discussion might call "troll" voting. |
Which is completely ridiculous! Just because someone has a 4.9 (4.8 in my case at the moment) and doesn't vote the same as you, does not make them a troll.
In all honesty, everyone seems to be somehow stuck on the fact that 5.5 is the mean of 1-10. Big friggn woop! That doesn't mean we have a statistical mean of 5.5 in the quality of photo's here. In fact, it's much easier to make a bad photo than it is a good one, especially with short challenge time frames we have here. So the fact that the average vote here is below the somehow mystical "mean" of 5.5 is not surprising.
If you feel the need to keep whining that everyone is a troll who votes below five, I feel you need to step away from photography and this site and get a grip on yourself!
Message edited by author 2006-11-29 21:43:05. |
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11/29/2006 09:40:03 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I don't believe "trolls" exist. It is a myth. There is no statistical evidence to support their existence. |
Just to satisfy my curiosity, I went to user profiles and randomly looked at ten users. Don't even know who they are. Two of them had average votes of less than 5.0, and one was 3.8! I've never gotten a comment from that particular user (3.8) but probably some very low votes (lots of my photos are pretty sucky anyway, so no big shocker there). Who knows what that person's motivation is? I was a little surprised (this person had also cast a lot of votes and regularly enters challenges, it turns out), but figure there are enough high voters to even it out. Still kind of sad, though. |
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11/29/2006 09:43:05 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I don't believe "trolls" exist. It is a myth. There is no statistical evidence to support their existence.
That is not to say that there aren't people who occasionally vote low, there are, but not enough of them and not often enough to be statistically significant.
The real truth is that average DPC voters give horribly low scores. The average score given submissions is somewhere around 5.1-5.2 which is pathetically low.
If anything, I'd called that institutionalized "troll" voting. |
So given a situation in which week after week a few hundred people submit photos upon which a few hundred other people pass judgement, and the judgement is consistently one of 'mediocre', you draw the conlusion that this is indicative of some fault in the voters. Interesting.
There are very, very few professional photographers submitting work on this site. With that in mind, I don't see why the opinion of the masses would not equally reflect glowing reviews for very, very few photos and an enthusiastic yawn for the bulk of the rest.
My avg vote cast is very low. I look forward to being presented the opportunity to vote on work that will raise it. |
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11/29/2006 09:45:50 PM · #34 |
Don't put too much emphasis on averages between the 4-7 range being nice or not nice. It's just how different peoples voting scales are built. Main thing is to be fair, honest and consistent from one challenge to another.
I get a little more annoyed by people that vote down photos because they don't like the subject or because they've seen it a million times before. People boldly admit to doing this in threads, almost to a point of bragging. I think that is just plain trollish to not give a photo reasonable consideration. |
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11/29/2006 09:48:45 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
My avg vote cast is very low. I look forward to being presented the opportunity to vote on work that will raise it. |
I think the issue may be that what one person deems an appropriate score for mediocrity is different for another. Based on your average, Router, you give what you deem mediocrity a 3 or 4. I give what I deem mediocrity a 5. I think the only real problem with giving scores below average for what is deemed mediocrity is that it is very discouraging for the photographer who receives the score. |
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11/29/2006 09:49:34 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by noraneko:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I don't believe "trolls" exist. It is a myth. There is no statistical evidence to support their existence. |
Just to satisfy my curiosity, I went to user profiles and randomly looked at ten users. Don't even know who they are. Two of them had average votes of less than 5.0, and one was 3.8! I've never gotten a comment from that particular user (3.8) but probably some very low votes (lots of my photos are pretty sucky anyway, so no big shocker there). Who knows what that person's motivation is? I was a little surprised (this person had also cast a lot of votes and regularly enters challenges, it turns out), but figure there are enough high voters to even it out. Still kind of sad, though. |
You are right, tis true there are people that regularly vote low but that there are not enough of them to be statistically significant.
As an aside, 3.8 is only about 1.3 points below the average DPC voter. On a 1-10 scale that is not all that far removed from everyone else.
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11/29/2006 09:51:31 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
As an aside, 3.8 is only about 1.3 points below the average DPC voter. On a 1-10 scale that is not all that far removed from everyone else. |
Not a statistician, but that's less than one standard deviation isn't it?
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11/29/2006 09:59:17 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I don't believe "trolls" exist. ... The average score given submissions is somewhere around 5.1-5.2 which is pathetically low.
If anything, I'd called that institutionalized "troll" voting. |
So given a situation in which week after week a few hundred people submit photos upon which a few hundred other people pass judgement, and the judgement is consistently one of 'mediocre', you draw the conlusion that this is indicative of some fault in the voters. Interesting. |
Yup, I do. It is the effect of getting low votes on your own submissions. If yours get voted low, you vote others low.
I'm speaking rhetorically about all DPC voters, not you in particular.
Originally posted by routerguy666:
My avg vote cast is very low. I look forward to being presented the opportunity to vote on work that will raise it. |
I find it interesting that people in this discussion are complaining about "Troll" voting yet are adamant about justifying their own voting patterns.
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11/29/2006 10:11:56 PM · #39 |
My Avg Vote Cast: 6.0099
I guess I'm nice...! : ) |
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11/29/2006 10:12:02 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by tooohip:
Which is completely ridiculous! Just because someone has a 4.9 (4.8 in my case at the moment) and doesn't vote the same as you, does not make them a troll.
In all honesty, everyone seems to be somehow stuck on the fact that 5.5 is the mean of 1-10. Big friggn woop! That doesn't mean we have a statistical mean of 5.5 in the quality of photo's here. In fact, it's much easier to make a bad photo than it is a good one, especially with short challenge time frames we have here. So the fact that the average vote here is below the somehow mystical "mean" of 5.5 is not surprising.
If you feel the need to keep whining that everyone is a troll who votes below five, I feel you need to step away from photography and this site and get a grip on yourself! |
Well said.
we're all lucky to have a large body of people here who are willing to look at and give opinions of our work. There's no reason to be greedy and feel the need to pick and choose which opinions we get. If you want the sort of feedback that comes with submitting your work to a site like this, then take what you get and be grateful (or quiet about it). If you want guaranteed hugs and love and kisses for everything you do, share your work with your mother or best friend.
(If our voting average indicates how nice we are, I'd better start tossing out those twos way more liberally.)
Message edited by author 2006-11-29 22:13:24. |
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11/29/2006 10:17:24 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
As an aside, 3.8 is only about 1.3 points below the average DPC voter. On a 1-10 scale that is not all that far removed from everyone else. |
Not a statistician, but that's less than one standard deviation isn't it? |
Actually, a standard deviation is a calculation of the amount of spread there is in a set of scores. Just from those numbers we cannot tell if it is within one standard deviation or not. We need the individual scores making up the group to figure that out.
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11/29/2006 10:29:43 PM · #42 |
I made a similar post here//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=494890
But after a lot more investigating, i discovered that the scrubber does its job to a certain degree. But on the other hand a troll vote "if there is such a thing" can make a huge difference between those in the winners circle. Like missing the blue or the red because of that buggering 1.
Theory:
I often wonder if and LOL i know i'll get hammered for this. If some teams in the interest of promoting team members, target those clearly headed for the winners circle, not with 1's or 2's but 4's & 5's to fly below the scrubber and it would'nt really reflect in their average votes cast. 1 or 2 the teams doing that can really shuffle the winners circle.
And david is now most certainly marked 4 death. lol
"Where's my kevlar, Runs for cover" |
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11/29/2006 10:31:11 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
... It is the effect of getting low votes on your own submissions. If yours get voted low, you vote others low.
[ |
... And this comment ladies and gentlemen would fall within the realm of a "Quantum Leap".
Before making sweeping generalizations, it would prove prudent to proffer at least some semblance of evidence of these nefarious undertakings.
The fact remains that some individuals are harsher in their decision making process, and such is their right. I do not begrudge anyone who doles out lower end scores, as long as their voting pattern remains constant relative to similar quality images.
I have been the recipient of both very low and very high scores, and in most instance considered both extremes to be unjustified. Have I ever doled out lower level scores... yes indeed I have... and feel perfectly justified in doing so.
Personally, I tire of this constant moaning relative to low scores, as it serves no useful purpose whatsoever, other than perhaps seeking approbation from one's peers.
Just another man's perspective.
Ray |
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11/29/2006 10:34:51 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by dmadden:
Theory:
I often wonder if and LOL i know i'll get hammered for this. If some teams in the interest of promoting team members, target those clearly headed for the winners circle, not with 1's or 2's but 4's & 5's to fly below the scrubber and it would'nt really reflect in their average votes cast. 1 or 2 the teams doing that can really shuffle the winners circle.
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i do it everyday. |
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11/29/2006 10:39:02 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
As an aside, 3.8 is only about 1.3 points below the average DPC voter. On a 1-10 scale that is not all that far removed from everyone else. |
Not a statistician, but that's less than one standard deviation isn't it? |
Actually, a standard deviation is a calculation of the amount of spread there is in a set of scores. Just from those numbers we cannot tell if it is within one standard deviation or not. We need the individual scores making up the group to figure that out. |
So, who wants to collect all the voting averages from every member of this site, set up a spread sheet and tell us what range a "normal" voter should have? ;-)
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11/29/2006 10:45:10 PM · #46 |
| I must be the antithesis of the common troll. My average vote is 7.5001. |
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11/29/2006 10:47:13 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by persimon:
I must be the antithesis of the common troll. My average vote is 7.5001. |
Wow, you're darn near angelic ;-)
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11/29/2006 11:22:04 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
It is the effect of getting low votes on your own submissions. If yours get voted low, you vote others low.
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I can point at my own vote cast versus vote received numbers as evidence that this is not the case.
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by routerguy666:
My avg vote cast is very low. I look forward to being presented the opportunity to vote on work that will raise it. |
I find it interesting that people in this discussion are complaining about "Troll" voting yet are adamant about justifying their own voting patterns. |
I'm not complaining about troll voters, and no person needs to justify how they vote. These threads, and the fact that they are encouraged by ludicrous actions such as the 'leave a comment along with your low vote' pop-up, do nothing positive for DPC.
Message edited by author 2006-11-29 23:22:38. |
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11/30/2006 12:23:11 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by persimon:
I must be the antithesis of the common troll. My average vote is 7.5001. |
A 7.5 is 75% of a "good" (by site definition) score. That would be a middle "C" rating in the world of education. It would seem reasonable that the average DPC image would score at middle "C" level.
In pure numerical terms you are probably scoring about right.
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11/30/2006 12:35:06 AM · #50 |
Challenges Entered: 36
Votes Cast: 2753
Avg Vote Cast: 6.6237
Votes Received: 8403
Avg Vote Received: 5.0176
Comments:
Made: 441
I'd say I fall in the 'nice-non-troll' group.
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