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11/20/2006 05:57:01 AM · #26 |
It can't be that hard to make a comment or two about a bad photo, such as, "blown-out lighting, no subject matter, OOF, wrong composition, too close, take a class, ugly subject, bad cropping, over saturated!!"
It does indeed help us beginners to become better photogs. I've taken classes, studied endless books, looked and observed thousands of images and alas, my photos are still horrible. I guess I need "new eyes", and to be able to lose my fear of trying for that special shot on assignment.
People seem to have no problem commenting on lovely photos such as, lovely, wow, outstanding, beautiful, stunning, fabulous, wonderful lighting, so on and so forth.
It can't be that difficult to make a one word comment on the bad images. It actually helps people like me. It does not hurt my feelings as art is subjective anyhow. I just want to become a better photographer, as I really love it with a passion!
Thanks for all your wonderful comments.
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11/20/2006 06:59:48 AM · #27 |
I am not being sarcastic.....I've had many nice comments on my images. I need to make this more than just a hobby I've had since 2001.
I'm amazed at the level of talent on this site. It's hard to compete with such outstanding talent. Keep up the good work guys, as your photos are a joy to look upon and provide inspiration to me!
I'm always amazed at the expertise in the images, everytime I log onto this site.
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11/20/2006 01:28:42 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by Germaine:
I just got the message, and I had posted a reply. |
Yes, and that is especially annoying, in addition to the usability issues that L2 pointed out. I hardly think increased pestering is going to encourage people to comment. |
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11/20/2006 01:40:53 PM · #29 |
I don't find it that annoying since it seems to only pop up the first time.
Message edited by author 2006-11-20 13:41:34. |
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11/20/2006 01:46:10 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Well I was being a bit facetious - I think it should be implemented at both ends to be fair. I also think it should just pop up on the image you gave the 1 or 10 to, not on the image following the one that triggered it.
I agree that all this will do is inflate the scores overall - especially since it includes 3's. So... thumbs down as implemented, IMO and FWIW. Not that I don't appreciate the effort and the willingness to address these issues. :) |
I agree. Shouldn't someone that is overly joyous and giving each image a 9 or a 10 be just as accountable as someone who is giving out 1's and 2's? A 9 or 10 certainly affects the scores as much as a 1 or 2. |
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11/20/2006 01:58:14 PM · #31 |
Gosh - I've been doing quite a bit of commenting lately. I hope people getting comments from me don't automatically think (especially if the comment isn't a flowery, everything's happy one) that I gave them a low score. A lot of times I'm commenting and not even voting.
Hmmm. I did notice my favorites took a slight downturn today. :(
Oh well, I'm not changing my ways. I like to comment and I don't mind saying what comes to mind when I view an image. It will be interesting to see if this new pop-up window has any long-term impact here.
Smile and keep having fun everyone. After all, this is supposed to be a hobby right? Last time I checked hobbies were things you enjoy! :D |
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11/20/2006 01:59:42 PM · #32 |
| I like the pestering. I get lots of 1s, 2s, and 3s and I want them to be pestered. Lots of voters don't read the rules thoroughly and this popup might encourage them to comment on their low scores, which is a good thing. |
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11/20/2006 04:00:48 PM · #33 |
If I give out 9's or 10's I usually make a nice comment because I think it's fair. On the other hand I dislike hurting someone's feelings if their image is not that good and I find myself thinking....'who am I to give out advice??!!' :)
I start off on the 5 level and move forward or backwards 1-2 points depending on lighting, composition and meeting the challenge. I've gone thru comparing my voting to others after a challenge and have found my votes to be average with the rest of you all! I was relieved. I have a good eye when it comes to looking at someone else's photos, but cannot apply that same technique to my own images. Go figure...
I comment on all types of photos and not just on the 9's and the 10's.
I think this is fun, and it is just a hobby for me. I'm retired and have spent my glory days in the advertising industry so this is just a fun thing for me, but I find myself taking this far too serious sometimes.
Once again, I always appreciate your comments on my photos and mostly I am delighted at the level of creativity that is displayed by you guys.
You rock!!
Message edited by author 2006-11-20 16:03:49. |
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11/23/2006 10:31:13 AM · #34 |
Though maybe a nice reminder, it's too bad that it shows up over the next image rather than the image a low score was just given to.
Meaning, that if you then intended to comment you'd have to navigate back to the image and then enter the comment. (Why bother in that case)
Message edited by author 2006-11-23 10:32:16. |
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11/23/2006 10:59:23 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by riversong:
If I give out 9's or 10's I usually make a nice comment because I think it's fair. On the other hand I dislike hurting someone's feelings if their image is not that good and I find myself thinking....'who am I to give out advice??!!' :)
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You don't have to give out advice, you can just say what you think of the image. For example, you give me a vote of 3, or whatever. I look at my average mark and it gives me a sad face like this :( and I've not even got a comment to show why. At least if people comment and say "I think this is overexposed" or "I think this is wonky and blurred" then I have some clue what not to do next time.
Noone wins if you don't comment, because I have no way to know what to improve - obviously I think my photo looks good because otherwise I wouldn't enter it. If people don't comment when they vote it low I don't know what to change.
I agree it's a bit silly that this reminder comes up with the next photo though. |
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11/23/2006 11:11:47 AM · #36 |
To be honest I got a pop-up yesterday wilst voting a 3. I very rarely vote and comment in the same run, it destroys my flow. When I do comment its usually on a second run initiated from the thumbnail screen.
I find this pop-up is trying to force me to change my workflow.
I agree with trying to encourage the comments for sub-4 votes but this method is simply annoying.
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11/23/2006 11:21:02 AM · #37 |
I've never given a 1 or 2 and very rarely give a 3 but commenting on low scores or high scores (or any scores) is no problem for me, I comment a lot anyway.
It might make people who only look at a photo for half a second and then move on to the next shot think about why they're voting the way they are AND it might stop these damn pests who vote 1 and 2 just for the fun of it.
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11/23/2006 11:32:12 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by Falc:
To be honest I got a pop-up yesterday wilst voting a 3. I very rarely vote and comment in the same run, it destroys my flow. When I do comment its usually on a second run initiated from the thumbnail screen.
I find this pop-up is trying to force me to change my workflow.
I agree with trying to encourage the comments for sub-4 votes but this method is simply annoying. |
I don't even agree with encouraging comments on sub-4 votes. It is, IMO, like putting the horse behind the cart.
The pop-up may well be annoying to the point of discouraging voting altogether, never mind commenting on shots we can learn from.
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11/23/2006 11:46:36 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by Falc:
To be honest I got a pop-up yesterday wilst voting a 3. I very rarely vote and comment in the same run, it destroys my flow. When I do comment its usually on a second run initiated from the thumbnail screen.
I find this pop-up is trying to force me to change my workflow.
I agree with trying to encourage the comments for sub-4 votes but this method is simply annoying. |
I don't even agree with encouraging comments on sub-4 votes. It is, IMO, like putting the horse behind the cart.
The pop-up may well be annoying to the point of discouraging voting altogether, never mind commenting on shots we can learn from. |
I agree. I could care less if someone comments after giving me a low score. I stated this once before in a forum and was accused of being an arrogant know-it-all. I simply do not learn this way. I find the comments I appreciate are the ones given because someone is inspired to give me a response-for any reason. The pop-ups are a pain, the community as a whole doesn't embrace criticism-it seems as if this idea of comments=improvement is being forced on an unreceptive audience. Certainly those who want this type of feedback are able to post a forum and get appropriate responses there.
I find that when I don't get many comments on a shot, I learn a valuable lesson. I am not getting a reaction from people-I can then look at my shot and determine whether I would want to change something about it...I am not working in a void...look around at shots that inspire you. What did they do differently?
There is nothing wrong with experiential learning.
Message edited by author 2006-11-23 12:00:12. |
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11/23/2006 11:51:14 AM · #40 |
I'm new to digital photography and to this website, so I rarely make negative comments because my skills are new and I'm not a professional photographer. But I recently received a nasty message from someone who's image I marked as DNMC. I wasn't trying to hurt the person's feeling, but in my opinion, it was DNMC. So asking for a comment with low scores is fine, but there may be some consequences. I only mark DNMC's as 1-3. Otherwise, I assume the person tried there best. I get my fair share of low scores when I've done the best I can for that moment in my learning curve.
The other observation about comments, is that some people comment and have no idea what they are talking about - they tell me I did things when taking the photo or in post-processing that I did not even use. I've had people who have not even entered any challenges leave very critical comments. So I take when I can from the comments, and for the most part don't worry about it. Occassionally, I will send some one a private message, but it's usually not hostile, unless provoked!
I have learned a lot on this site, but as in anything I take the good with the bad. |
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11/23/2006 12:37:37 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by Falc:
To be honest I got a pop-up yesterday wilst voting a 3. I very rarely vote and comment in the same run, it destroys my flow. When I do comment its usually on a second run initiated from the thumbnail screen.
I find this pop-up is trying to force me to change my workflow.
I agree with trying to encourage the comments for sub-4 votes but this method is simply annoying. |
I don't even agree with encouraging comments on sub-4 votes. It is, IMO, like putting the horse behind the cart.
The pop-up may well be annoying to the point of discouraging voting altogether, never mind commenting on shots we can learn from. |
Me too. I may stop voting altogether, now, as I usually find a good proportion of images require a score of 3 or less. The encouragement of people not to vote below 4 will increase average scores, and for those who so avidly follow the statistics, distort thing before and after this implementation. |
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11/23/2006 12:45:23 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by e301:
I may stop voting altogether |
Well I hope you dont. It seems as though votes on some challenges have been quite low lately and any more losses of voters would be a shame. KNowing that this popup only comes up once per voting run will hopefully keep you hitting them numbers.
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11/23/2006 01:00:49 PM · #43 |
Here's an idea. How about, since we like to constantly refer to this as a learning site, we start learning to accept that there are going to be people in the world that just don't like our work. Even when it's technically perfect and 250 other people and our own mother love it, there just might be someone who doesn't. And let's learn that that's okay. Let's not be yelling out one side of our mouths how unaccepting of "out of the box" work this site is and then immediately condemn anyone who doesn't vote exactly as we would out the other. And let's learn that it's not necessary to refer to anyone who doesn't like our work as a troll, just like it's not necessary to refer to anyone who is always whining about the scores they don't like as a baby. It seems to me, that would be a much more valuable life lesson than padding ourselves into a comfortable little spot where we can convince ourselves that the only possible reason someone could dislike our work is their evil, evil intents.
If you get a 1 (or a 2 or 3 which have also apparently become "troll votes"), just figure the voter didn't like it. If you got a comment, feel extra grateful. If you got 350 votes of 8 and above, you're likely not going to pay attention to the opinion of that single 1 voter anyway so you don't really need their comments. If you got a million ones, figure your picture really sucked and take a look at the ones that didn't and figure out what you're doing wrong. If you really don't get it, start a thread. Either way, let's quit whining about votes we don't like, eh? It's getting super old, it's poor form and it's just making it a hassle for people who actually took the time and effort to vote/comment on your image. Let's not arrange the site to further coddle people who can't accept negative feedback. |
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11/23/2006 01:49:50 PM · #44 |
| There's been quite a few comments about the pop up making people stop voting. Why? Unless it's behaving completely different on everyone else's computer it only pops up the first time you give a vote of 3 or less. You could vote all the entries a 1 and it only pops up once. It also doesn't require a comment to be made. You just click ok and continue voting. It's lame but other than that it doesn't seem to alter the voting process. |
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11/23/2006 02:08:57 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
...it only pops up the first time you give a vote of 3 or less. You could vote all the entries a 1 and it only pops up once. It also doesn't require a comment to be made. You just click ok and continue voting. It's lame but other than that it doesn't seem to alter the voting process. |
I didn't realize this. Just a minor annoyance then. :-)
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11/23/2006 02:09:59 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
There's been quite a few comments about the pop up making people stop voting. Why? Unless it's behaving completely different on everyone else's computer it only pops up the first time you give a vote of 3 or less. You could vote all the entries a 1 and it only pops up once. It also doesn't require a comment to be made. You just click ok and continue voting. It's lame but other than that it doesn't seem to alter the voting process. |
I agree. why stop voting because of one extra click? It may help you get a more favorable vote from someone that thought you cheated someday. even though the rules say vote as if a shot were legal many people don't read the rules and this pop-up may help newcomers to vote that way. |
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11/23/2006 03:09:05 PM · #47 |
This is likely to get me into hot water, but why comment on low votes?
Yes I am serious. Maybe it's just me, but if I vote a score low it's mainly for one of two reasons, and neither one of them would benefit from comments.
The first is if it is so far off technically that it is an eyesore. I don't mean 'the focus is off', 'where's the subject' or simple things like that. Those images stay safely hidden amoung the middle scores. But images that are conceptually off so far the only thing I could say would be that I don't get it -- and that wouldn't say anymore than the low vote does. For these images it's not a matter of pointing out a flaw in execution, but one in the concept. Volumes could be written about how the concept could be done better, but I without the concept known they would be wasted volumes.
The second is a matter of taste. If I like the image I vote it high, if I don't I vote it low. The only thing in common with these two is the image managed to get my attention -- for this it does not remain hidden in the middle scores. But a comment is of no use. After all, who is it going to help to know that I don't like puce? Ok, maybe my wife when buying me a shirt, but that's about it. :P
I just don't see how comments on low votes are going to help anyone. If a person wants to know why their image did poorly, post a forum thread with their thinking and reasons for taking the image. With that basic description of intent in hand they can get many helpful comments, but without it...
I think a basic monitor calibration check screen before each voting session that checks white and black points as the greyscale currently does, but also checks gamma would stop more inappropriate low scores than this will. All this is doing is pushing people to vote higher on every image.
David
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11/23/2006 03:25:05 PM · #48 |
The reason the pop-up was put in is that some users worried that their images were getting unwarranted low votes because voters didn't think that the editing could be achieved legally, and rather than vote as normal and ask for validation, they would just give a low vote, or give a low vote and ask for validation.
Per the rules voters are required to vote images as they would normally vote them rather than give them a low vote because they suspect editing that's not legit.
I am not saying I agree with this, but this is the reason why it was put into place, and, if anything, I think it is a good idea to at least give it a bit of time and see if it works.
From my own personal point of view, I find it annoying, but then I tend to find a lot of things annoying lately. But I'm willing to give it a try. |
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11/23/2006 05:50:28 PM · #49 |
Having the popup is one thing but it appears on the next image not on the one for which a comment is being suggested.
Message edited by author 2006-11-23 17:50:40. |
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11/23/2006 06:09:24 PM · #50 |
I really don't see the point if its only on the image after the first sub 4 vote. If I already voted I'm not going to go back and add a comment.
If it could possibly encourage people to comment (which I don't believe) then my guess would be that the comment would be about as useful as 'WOW' which we see at the other end of the scale. Perhaps we will start to see 'CRAP' or 'GARBAGE' being used as the throw-away low-end comments.
The pop-up is an irritation and doesn't address the real problem.
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