Newbie on Trolls - DPChallenge Forums

Tamron AF 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 Aspherical XR IF Super Zoom for Pentax

11/15/2006 12:57:56 PM · #26

Originally posted by candlerain:

I am here to LEARN photography... If you guys only leave me 5's and up and bypass when it is lower well... It sucks because I could actually think that my picture did pretty good.

I would rather get a 1 to 4 with an explanation of what I could do better than having people not vote.

Aren't we here to LEARN from each other?

And for those of you "nice" people that won't leave anything lower than a five you are not doing anyone a favor. It is much NICER to leave a low score and saying why you did so.

Just playing a little devil's advocate here:

1) I too am here to learn. Being new to photography, there is much to learn and many available resources through the site/forum.

2) The site is DPCHALLENGE. So, it is a competition. Hence the scores. There can only be 1 best and everyone is ranked. So, for many, this site is about competition and not so much about the technical aspects of photography. It just depends on your mindset. As I mention in point 1 above, I am here to learn and improve.

3) Scores vs. Comments. You are dealing with a full gammut (sp) of people here. Some are comfortable leaving comments whether they bash or praise your image. Others like to take a neutral stance and others are what some might consider Trolls (leave low scores and no comments). Ultimately, just as you or I get a say so on a vote and have the option to leave comments, so does everyone else.

I too want to know why my images seem to often score lower than where I think they should. My Reflections entry had a 4.9 and 4 comments all of which praised the image. Well, obviously if it scored below 5, there must be SOMETHING wrong with it. If you (or I or anyone) REALLY wants feedback on an image, the best thing to do is wait till the challenge is over and then post it on the forum section for individual entries. Beware, you may get some pretty harsh criticism, BUT you will get responses which seems to be what you are requesting.

I've only posted one of my images in this manner and gotten some good feedback. I have a pretty good idea why my reflections entry did not score well and am considering asking for the specific feedback.

4) As for votes of 5 "doing no one any favors", I do disagree a bit. One could imply that the image is "average". Not good, not bad, just average. The image could be fantastic in the eyes of the photographer, but in this specific challenge, the viewer saw it as average. So, while it doesn't give you specific technical information, it does tell you the general "feel" that people took from the image.

These are just my opinions, and I think I know EXACTLY where you are coming from. I can't improve if I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I just know that I may not get that information from the challenge itself. I may have to start a specific thread for my image to get the feedback.

Gaby_G

Canon EF 28-90mm f/4-5.6 II USM (Black)

11/15/2006 12:59:41 PM · #27

Of course trolls exist! I have to admit I used to be one when I first started submiting :S ... I was doing so bad that I was frustrated and every image I saw that I tought wasnt as good as mine I voted it low (so... that`s the reason I can`t get rid of my average given score)... BUT after 4 months submithing I have to admit that the fact that at first my pictures were voted so low helped me a lot, `cause I wanted to improve and I think that little by little I have been doing better... And I am also out of my trolling, when I am feeling frustrated about the score I am getting, I dont vote on the pictures in the same challenge, that way I avoid being unobjective (that`s the word?)..

Azrifel

Fujifilm X100VI

11/15/2006 01:00:13 PM · #28

Originally posted by candlerain:

It is much NICER to leave a low score and saying why you did so.

Left you a comment. :)

Fromac

Nikon D7000

Olympus 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 Zuiko Digital ED

11/15/2006 01:01:59 PM · #29

One word seems to sum it up...

Subjectivity.

silverfoxx

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

11/15/2006 01:09:51 PM · #30

I came here to learn, too. AND have fun learning.
but I'd rather simply send a pm with my comment and maybe some advice to a photographer instead of giving a low vote. (though I am a beginner myself!)
you can't learn from low votes! you learn from the comments. besides I can't see any possibility to campare images in every single challenge. they are too differerent and as Fromac said judgement is highly subjective.

Azrifel

Fujifilm X100VI

11/15/2006 01:59:57 PM · #31

Originally posted by silverfoxx:

you can't learn from low votes!

Yes you can. You can start to wonder "What did I do wrong, how do others do it that do get good scores, let me look at those others, maybe there is an article on the net that describes the technique and I can learn from that, maybe I should by a basic book on photography or composition to actually get a clue about what I am doing, maybe I should buy a book with Ansel Adams photos in it and check what he does what I do not, maybe I should subscribe on national geographic and see if their photos differ a lot from my work, maybe I should someone else then my hubby look at my pic because he even finds the dog pic with redeye great work, maybe I should read the comments on great shots to see why people love those, maybe.........

Not everything needs to be told to you by others, there is something like selfstudy. A good string of average 4 scores might push you more to that path then a inflated ego-brushing lying 5 average score on a pic that actually sucks horribly.

11/15/2006 02:19:57 PM · #32

Originally posted by silverfoxx:

If you can't learn from low votes then you cannot take credit for high votes as the numbers are simply pretty things that have no reflection upon skill level thus providing no incentive to excel. That hurt my brain. Maybe we should have a PC all inclusive non-gender, non-racial ribbon that is sensitive to all photos but does not create barriers based upon pet preference. That way nobody feels left out and all photographers are kindred spirits.

silverfoxx

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

11/15/2006 02:31:10 PM · #33

yes!:) that's what I'm saying (or tried to say) the numbers are just subjective numbers and nothing more!
a person can be in a very bad mood and then he/she sees my picture and thinks: no, this is really disgusting! and at that very moment he is right, this is how he feels. but what can I learn from it? - only how important it is not to let your own emotions to control everything you do. but what about my picture? has it helped me that someone didn't like it? no! it only helps when he says why he didn't like it.

I've never made it over 5.5 and I don't think I will ever make it.
:)
Azrifel,
I hate all the pictures I've made. I don't like them! really bad editing, bad poses, bad acting etc, etc. so I do ask myself all the time: what have I done wrong and how I can improve?

I don't lie. I give what I think it deserves. I just avoid giving 1-3.

Gaby_G

Canon EF 28-90mm f/4-5.6 II USM (Black)

11/15/2006 03:01:35 PM · #34

Originally posted by silverfoxx:

I've never made it over 5.5 and I don't think I will ever make it.
:)

Ohhh believe me... you WILL!!!! I just came back from your profile, you have some amazing stuff there! actually I saw two of your pic challenges wich I gave 8 or 9 (and I am not troll anymore, but I give 8-9-10 votes very very rear times)... I don`t really know (or understand) why you where scored so low, but I do think you will score highter very soon!

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

11/15/2006 03:05:57 PM · #35

Originally posted by silverfoxx:

yes!:) I've never made it over 5.5 and I don't think I will ever make it.:)

Why do people make remarks like this? Very well then, you must know what you are talking about so we'll have to agree with you. Let's hope your ambitions change.

Message edited by author 2006-11-15 15:06:13.

Canon EOS-20D

11/15/2006 03:09:37 PM · #36

Originally posted by Ivo:

Very well then, you must know what you are talking about [...]

Except apparently she doesn't because she's already made it over 5.5 several times.

Message edited by author 2006-11-15 15:09:47.

11/15/2006 03:12:04 PM · #37

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by Ivo:
Very well then, you must know what you are talking about [...]

Except apparently she doesn't because she's already made it over 5.5 several times.

Wow....you've returned. Went for a walkabout? A bit of fresh air is good once in a while.

Strikeslip

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

11/15/2006 03:13:35 PM · #38

Sometimes I'll vote a whole bunch of 1's in a row, say, if I stub my toe while sitting down to vote, I'll vote nothing but 1's until the pain goes away.

On the other hand, sometimes I vote a whole bunch of 10's in a row, say, if I'm sipping on a tasty beer. But if I run out of beer or a hangover comes on, lookout, here come the 1's.

Bugzeye

Fisher Price Kid-Tough Digital

11/15/2006 03:14:13 PM · #39

I have to admit I am growing tired of the consistant 1 and 2 voters. Nearly every challenge lately.

Tamron AF 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 Aspherical XR IF Super Zoom for Pentax

11/15/2006 03:14:13 PM · #40

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by Ivo:
Very well then, you must know what you are talking about [...]

Except apparently she doesn't because she's already made it over 5.5 several times.

I noticed that as well. Wasn't sure if they were quoting someone else, but they have numerous entries over the 5.5 mark.

Tamron AF 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 Aspherical XR IF Super Zoom for Pentax

11/15/2006 03:14:49 PM · #41

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Sometimes I'll vote a whole bunch of 1's in a row, say, if I stub my toe while sitting down to vote, I'll vote nothing but 1's until the pain goes away.

On the other hand, sometimes I vote a whole bunch of 10's in a row, say, if I'm sipping on a tasty beer. But if I run out of beer or a hangover comes on, lookout, here come the 1's.

So, where do I mail the six-pack?

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

11/15/2006 03:16:09 PM · #42

Originally posted by Bugzeye:

I have to admit I am growing tired of the consistant 1 and 2 voters. Nearly every challenge lately.

Yeah! Damn those people using the scale that's provided! And in every challenge! BURN BURN BURN!

Azrifel

Fujifilm X100VI

11/15/2006 03:19:11 PM · #43

Originally posted by dallasdux:

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by Ivo:
Very well then, you must know what you are talking about [...]

Except apparently she doesn't because she's already made it over 5.5 several times.

I noticed that as well. Wasn't sure if they were quoting someone else, but they have numerous entries over the 5.5 mark.

Probably over 5.5 on average for all challenges entered.

Mine is only 5.6something after 100 challenges, but I do got three ribbons. :) Averages are just average.

Gaby_G

Canon EF 28-90mm f/4-5.6 II USM (Black)

11/15/2006 03:19:54 PM · #44

Originally posted by Ivo:

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by Ivo:
Very well then, you must know what you are talking about [...]

Except apparently she doesn't because she's already made it over 5.5 several times.

Wow....you've returned. Went for a walkabout? A bit of fresh air is good once in a while.

You are in a bad mood day right? (or just being extremely sarcastic in a good mood?) :P

BTW, you left me a comment wich made me sooooo happy yesterday that I just have to thank you! MUAK!

11/15/2006 03:21:52 PM · #45

Voting shold be broken down as follows:

1) A hamster should teach you about photography
2) You listened to the hamster....yikes!
3) Nice camera but you should be using a rake instead.
4) Okay you took a picture but .....nevermind.
5) I have no feelings either way so we'll place you here.
6) Nice shot .... not great but nice shot.
7) Really nice shot though better than most.
8) Damn this is really good but could be tightened a bit.
9) This is the best it gets because every photo has some flaws.
10) I just won a million and really think my big toe looks great in this light and so does your photo!

Tamron AF 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 Aspherical XR IF Super Zoom for Pentax

11/15/2006 03:23:12 PM · #46

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by Bugzeye:
I have to admit I am growing tired of the consistant 1 and 2 voters. Nearly every challenge lately.

Yeah! Damn those people using the scale that's provided! And in every challenge! BURN BURN BURN!

LOL!