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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Should I make the switch??
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 10/22/2006 05:01:05 PM · #1
I am considering switching from the D70 to the Canon 20 or 30d.

I shot a wedding with a friend last weekend, and I fell in love with his 20d. He has his ISO up over 1000 and got some gorgeous shots. I tried the same thing, and mine are go grainy, I don't think I can fix them!

Not only that, but he doesn't have the "fuzzy" photo problems that I am having with the D70.

I had also considered upgrading to a D100 or 200.... or whatever... but I don't know if I will get the same noise issues and fuzziness. Also, I would have to buy alot of new lenses on top of 2 bodies. Unless I can get some sort of adapter that will allow me to shoot Nikon lenses on Canon bodies?

What do you think about this idea? Should I do it? Should I can it?

Lorrie

10/22/2006 05:32:30 PM · #2
If you decide to switch and then conclude that you are definitely a "Canon Girl" I'll be glad to take your Nikon D70 off your hands. Keep me in mind.
 10/22/2006 05:36:39 PM · #3
Even if I upgrade, I will be selling at least one of my D70's. If I do.. I will let you know! :)
 10/22/2006 05:47:48 PM · #4
a d200 is a far more logical upgrade. it's heads and shoulders above the d70 for noise, speed, and features. the Canon/Nikon debate is a dead horse when you're talking comparable models. Based on the fact that you'll have a d70 as a backup and a few nikon lenses already, staying Nikon makes the most sense.

the 30d is a great camera, but switching systems will cost you a lot more money, and I think you'll find the d200 is at least as good as the 30d.
 10/22/2006 05:51:48 PM · #5
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
Not only that, but he doesn't have the "fuzzy" photo problems that I am having with the D70.


You mean fuzzy with jpeg or fuzzy with nef?

The D200 is better with the noise, but of course you should try before you buy. Maybe hire a D200 body for a day or weekend or ask for a loaner to decide before you invest. The D80 also has quite good performance compared to a 400D.

Don't mind the brand stuff, get what you need.


10/22/2006 06:04:06 PM · #6
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
I am considering switching from the D70 to the Canon 20 or 30d.



Maybe we can work out a trade. My 30D and lenses for your D70 and some lenses.

;)
 10/22/2006 06:34:41 PM · #7
I bought a Nikon D70s and never could get the @#* thing to focus consistently. I sent the camera and lens in for service, but in the meantime, I had to have a camera so I bought Canon 400D and I am much happier with it.
 10/22/2006 06:48:53 PM · #8
Originally posted by rex:
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
I am considering switching from the D70 to the Canon 20 or 30d.



Maybe we can work out a trade. My 30D and lenses for your D70 and some lenses.

;)


haha I have 2 D70's, a 70-300mm 4-6, a Nikon 17-80 (kit lens), a 28-80mm 2.8, a 15mm fisheye 2.8, and a SB-600 flash. Along with a Custom Bracket and sync cords and all that! haha

Problem is, I need 2 cameras. I have one as a backup incase anything goes wrong. So, I would have to get 2 30D's :)

Tempting though. :)
 10/22/2006 06:57:35 PM · #9
Makes me think...since I am thinking about going Nikon...for me it's the draw of the 18-200 VR lens, and I tried out the D80 in the store and really liked it.

But I would not like to switch to something that gave me more noise. I did read too that Nikon's have "true" ISO rating performance, whereas Canon's actually shoot effectively higher than the nominal ISO rating. So at ISO 800 on the dial, the Canon will actually be shooting ISO 1000 or something like that.

I'll have to look into the noise issue a bit...
 10/22/2006 07:08:48 PM · #10
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
Not only that, but he doesn't have the "fuzzy" photo problems that I am having with the D70.


You mean fuzzy with jpeg or fuzzy with nef?

The D200 is better with the noise, but of course you should try before you buy. Maybe hire a D200 body for a day or weekend or ask for a loaner to decide before you invest. The D80 also has quite good performance compared to a 400D.

Don't mind the brand stuff, get what you need.


I get the "fuzziness" when I don't have enough light. If I am shooting in the studio and the lights are not bright enough... I get horrible "fuzz".
 10/22/2006 07:25:08 PM · #11
It's not a Nikon vs. Canon thing. He probably knew how to properly expose at a given ISO as opposed to what you were doing.

edit to add: Even a d2x or a 1dmkII can't fix whatever someone is doing wrong.

Message edited by author 2006-10-22 19:26:19.
 10/22/2006 07:29:06 PM · #12
Originally posted by ddpNikon:
It's not a Nikon vs. Canon thing. He probably knew how to properly expose at a given ISO as opposed to what you were doing.

edit to add: Even a d2x or a 1dmkII can't fix whatever someone is doing wrong.


I have tried everything, and I still sometimes have this problem. I know a few others that own D70's and have the same problem. Also, the noise is a big problem. I shot at the same settings, and still... my noise is horrible.
 10/22/2006 07:36:01 PM · #13
which lenses were you using when you had the problem? contrary to popular opinion, lenses are equally if not more responsible for the quality of the shot.
 10/22/2006 07:49:35 PM · #14
I tested a D80 recently specifically for the ISO noise and found that it was even better than the D200 (and MUCH better than the D2x, which actually is horrible at high ISOs). I think the D80 is AT LEAST as good at higher ISOs as Canon now. The only downside to getting a D80 is that it uses different memory cards than the D70.

My $0.02
 10/22/2006 08:26:01 PM · #15
I think the D70 is a noisy beast.
I don't see much difference between a 20D and 30D - I shoot both at weddings. Do NOT underexpose!

I was a member at another website like DPC and it was mostly Fuji, but they did have an 'open' category for non-fuju cams and the D70's were easily identifiable by the noise.

SO you could check and see if a D80 is better, or enough better to suit your needs. You'd need to get 2, and sell the 2 D70s. You know better than I what the cost of that will be.

On the switch to canon you'll have to sell it all off and go completely canon - it's kinda nuts to have two complete systems - 2 bodies is no biggie, but two sets of lenses and flashes is expensive and a lot to carry.

a used 20D can be had for $700ish, new ones are out there and a 30D new is $1200 ish - a lot cheaper than going the D200 route. Canon's use CF cards, so you save at least that minor cost over going to D80s if it's any consolation.
 10/22/2006 08:34:57 PM · #16
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
I think the D70 is a noisy beast.


N'uh uh. the d70 isn't noisy at all --> here's the caveat: don't shoot at the goofy fractional stops between ISOs. shoot 100, 200, 400, 800, even 1600 occasionally, and you're ok. stop at 520 or some stupid variation like that, and the noise is atrocious. I have no idea why. And I'm not really smart enough to care...as long as I can compensate by staying on the regular multiples I allll good :)

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
I don't see much difference between a 20D and 30D - I shoot both at weddings. Do NOT underexpose!


Truer words were never spoken...for any camera i've ever had the pleasure of fondling.
 10/22/2006 08:48:50 PM · #17
I never really had much problem with "Fuzziness" with my D70 when I had one. And as for noise I never really had much of a problem there either. I very rarely shot above ISO 400, but the few times I shot 800 and 1600 I was pleased. Yeah there was noise, I mean come on that's a very high ISO setting. Even so, I didn't find it that bad. Though, I don't shoot weddings...
 10/22/2006 09:50:35 PM · #18
I dunno.... maybe I'm just camera stupid. The noise I got with the 800 and 1600 was so bad that I couldn't even fix it in NI.

The fuzziness happens with all the lenses I use. And it's not just on one of my D70's, it's both of them.

*sigh*
 10/22/2006 11:53:31 PM · #19
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
I dunno.... maybe I'm just camera stupid. The noise I got with the 800 and 1600 was so bad that I couldn't even fix it in NI.



Here are a few of my ISO 1600 D70 shots that I still have:




Now yes, these are smaller versions and smaller images look better than large ones, but overall I was relatively satisfied with the ISO performance. Not perfect at all, but decent IMO. Do your photo's look worse that these?
 10/22/2006 11:57:07 PM · #20
Dont be silly! The D70 is an awesome camera.
REMEMBER it's the man and NOT the tool!
A camera is just a tool and will not make you a better phtographer.
 10/22/2006 11:59:46 PM · #21
One of my favourite phtographer's dR uses a d70 exclusively.
have a look
if it's good enough for him it's good enough for you!
 10/23/2006 01:08:20 AM · #22
Originally posted by breadfan35:

Do your photo's look worse that these?


If so, you're not exposing properly.
 10/23/2006 01:12:54 AM · #23
Originally posted by Pedro:
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
I think the D70 is a noisy beast.


N'uh uh. the d70 isn't noisy at all --> here's the caveat: don't shoot at the goofy fractional stops between ISOs. shoot 100, 200, 400, 800, even 1600 occasionally, and you're ok. stop at 520 or some stupid variation like that, and the noise is atrocious. I have no idea why. And I'm not really smart enough to care...as long as I can compensate by staying on the regular multiples I allll good :)


Is that really the case? I have to try. Just one detail, D70 doesn't go down to 100 :) (you should know that, Pedro!).

One thing I've noticed with noise and the D70 is that underexposing increases noise, especially underexposures of subjects that are dark to begin with. Sometimes that's pretty cool though - makes for interesting grain.

One other thing - I have always like it that the Nikon is not quite as creamy smooth as the Canon seems to be. It's got a better feel IMO. It seems that many viewers and photographers prefer that creamy almost neat-imaged look, but to me it's sort of fakey. But that is just my opinion.

Message edited by author 2006-10-23 01:15:00.
 10/23/2006 02:45:38 AM · #24
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
I get the "fuzziness" when I don't have enough light. If I am shooting in the studio and the lights are not bright enough... I get horrible "fuzz".


Maybe look at one D200 or D80 which are better with noise, sell one D70 and perhaps update some of the lights? Calculate which is the best option and look what works best for you.


10/23/2006 03:24:04 AM · #25
Despite the Canon's having a slight improvement in the noise department (according to most reviews I have read over the years etc) I would still think carefully about this, its a big move that is very expensive.

I think taking a look at the better Nikon models would be a prudent move in the first case, I would think that the 200 would have better performance at higher ISO's, so surely its worth a look.

Of course, if you are in the same boat as most people, and money is an issue, so you need to sell some of your gear to finance a new purchase, then the Canon 20D is available at some really good prices now.

I would try a new Nikon if I were you, and invest the $80 in Noise Ninja, thjis program is great, you can download the profile for you camera and the effects are very subtle, and you don't get that wierd plastic look like neat image.

Message edited by author 2006-10-23 03:24:27.
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