HOW Helpful are YOUR Comments? - DPChallenge Forums

10/06/2006 08:19:50 AM · #1

I'm gonna guess this has been brought up before - Let me start off by saying this site is set up beautifully and I'm completely addicted to it.

But I've been noticing that people want more constructive comments on images. Especially when it comes to people who want to improve. Maybe instead of saying whether a comment was simply "helpful", we can rate comments - say 1-5 as far as how helpful they are. In reality this will only have statistical relevance but may motivate people to leave more constuctive feedback on images ...
-
For Example: I like an image but think that it suffers from a little blur and a little noise ...
Should I say:
"Nice",
or
"Too much noise",
or
"I really like your choice of subject here and you POV. I think it might be a stronger photo if you used a tri-pod or still surface and allowed the shutter to stay open a bit longer - while keeping the ISO at the lowest setting"

To me these would rate as 1, 2, and 5 respectively. In fact, we could even specify what 1-5 means ... And if it is simply congratulatory -- "Great Job- I always love your pictures" there could be another option prehaps.

I realize there are drawbacks to this idea - Maybe people feel that they shouldn't have to be concerned with it and it's too much ...
Or maybe it will deter negative comments because people will rate the negative comments poorly ...
OR maybe comments will become more helpful because people want to have a good helpfullness percentage..

Any thoughts?

Message edited by author 2006-10-06 08:20:16.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

10/06/2006 08:21:48 AM · #2

Another possible extension to this idea would be a "Free Study" for people that have a helpfulness percentage of X% ... I know they did this for people that had left more comments than they received.

mist

Canon EOS-60D

10/06/2006 08:26:34 AM · #3

On a left : received ratio my helpfulness must be off the scale, but in reality my comments are just a few words to say briefly what I think about a photo. If someone finds that helpful then that's great, but I doubt that my comments will turn someone's photographic ability.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/06/2006 09:16:31 AM · #4

I have left 700 unhelpful comments. hubba hubba.

Message edited by author 2006-10-06 09:35:43.

Nikon MF Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8

10/06/2006 03:02:03 PM · #5

I guess what I'm trying to come up with is a way to encourage helpful comments ...
I dunno - it sounded good after my cup of coffee this morning.
Now I need a nap.

t

Cheerz

Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro

10/06/2006 03:05:20 PM · #6

hmm... I aspire to be a pro commenter..
haha..
and if I make it at photography.. that's a plus.. :)

I second this motion..

Cheers have fun.. :)
need to sleep now.. got a wedding to shoot in 5 hours time..

UNTITLED

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron AF 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di II for Canon

10/06/2006 03:14:11 PM · #7

Not that it's a bad idea or anything...but I have absolutely no desire to rate comments! I would much rather view, vote and comment on photos, a much more valuble use of time spent at DPC!

Message edited by author 2006-10-06 15:14:54.

dallasdux

Pentax *ist DL

Tamron AF 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 Aspherical XR IF Super Zoom for Pentax

10/06/2006 03:14:13 PM · #8

Originally posted by posthumous:

I have left 700 unhelpful comments. hubba hubba.

Or the flip side, over 75% of your comments have been helpful :)
From a newbies perspective, that means a lot.

Canon TC-DC58B 1.5x Tele Converter

10/06/2006 03:20:54 PM · #9

Maybe every time we enter a helpful comment we are entered into a drawing for a free year of membership :] !!!

Blackbox

Samsung Galaxy S9/S9+

10/06/2006 03:24:50 PM · #10

I'm just glad to get ANY comments on my photos. I usually find most of them helpful in one way or another...even if I don't agree with them. As far as my comments go...I try to leave something helpful but due to lack of experience, it's mostly just about whether I like the photo or not. I think a lot of the comments that go unchecked as helpful are by people whom never check any of them and leave them all blank for one reason or another.

As far as 'rating' comments left for me...I'd rather just leave it the way it is and move on. That wasn't very helpful was it?

10/06/2006 03:29:01 PM · #11

OK - If you don't leave a comment a small shock is sent to your mouse as you click on the score. A very small bit of pain ...
OK ...
I'm still wokin' on this one.
Still need a nap.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

10/06/2006 03:35:53 PM · #12

Originally posted by 'metatate':

I guess what I'm trying to come up with is a way to encourage helpful comments ...
I dunno - it sounded good after my cup of coffee this morning.
Now I need a nap.

t

Your idea has been brought up before and I have always been in favor of it. If you give commentors incentive such as a "comment average" on their profile page you'll get more comments. It'll be just like the average vote received and we all know lots of people are into maintaining as high an average as possible with that so perhaps something similar would happen with giving out thoughtful comments?

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

10/06/2006 03:41:36 PM · #13

Any comments you leave on your own images (to explain/respond to another comment) are NEVER counted as helpful, and some people don't ever mark comments as helpful while others mark them all, so the stat is basically meaningless. As long as you express some meaningful thought about the image, I suppose YOU know it was helpful. That's really about all you can do.

theSaj

Canon EOS-20D

10/06/2006 03:59:49 PM · #14

Maybe we should have a challenge for those who have posted over a 1,000 comments!

- Saj

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

10/06/2006 04:00:39 PM · #15

Originally posted by 'metatate':

But I've been noticing that people want more constructive comments on images. Especially when it comes to people who want to improve. Maybe instead of saying whether a comment was simply "helpful", we can rate comments - say 1-5 as far as how helpful they are. In reality this will only have statistical relevance but may motivate people to leave more constuctive feedback on images ...

Any thoughts?

Suggestions like this are made periodically. But adding more data entry to provide feedback to commenters is not a particularly good solution. Just look at how much controversy the practically worthless "This comment was helpful" check box has caused.

What would be better is to tell the commenter at the time they are evaluating your image that you want an in-depth critique of your picture and let them to decide. Commenters would then know before they commented that you desired and in-depth critique rather than learning later on via feedback. That method only serves to goad commenters into doing a better job. Not everyone likes to give in-depth comments nor do they have the time.

A Possible Solution
We ALMOST already have something in place to do that. It is the critique club indicator box that can be checked at image submission time.

If it were indicated on the voting screen that the critique box had been checked then concientious commenters would know up front that a person wanted in-depth comments and could act accordingly. AND, it could help out the critique club which are already overworked.

PeterPic

Canon EOS-40D

10/06/2006 04:16:02 PM · #16

A comment is one person's opinion and nothing more. I doubt it will be helpful to try and manipulate people's opinions. Also who decides what is a good comment and what not? Lets say someone took the time to leave me comment which was constructive criticism from their perspective. I on the other hand just had a really bad day so from my perspective I think he or she is being an ass and I slap this poor person with a bad rating and all they did was give me their opinion. I think pretty soon no one will leave comments anymore. I think if you put your picture up there for scrutiny, you must be willing to accept the opinions you invite by virtue of the fact that you entered it in a challenge and grant people their freedom of speech.

Peronally I mark all comments as helpful because I appreciate that someone took the time to comment on my submission wether I agree with their opinion or not.

Message edited by author 2006-10-06 16:26:32.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

10/06/2006 05:43:35 PM · #17

Originally posted by stdavidson:

A Possible Solution
We ALMOST already have something in place to do that. It is the critique club indicator box that can be checked at image submission time.

If it were indicated on the voting screen that the critique box had been checked then concientious commenters would know up front that a person wanted in-depth comments and could act accordingly. AND, it could help out the critique club which are already overworked.

I like that idea but what about a more universal solution though? I'm thinking instead of tying this to a specific photo what about tying it to the photographer instead? For example, say you had an option on your preferences page to set the level of feedback you wanted. Once you set it would apply to all of your photos including in your portfolio and would show up on the photo page as a colored icon of some sort. Say red is for "harsh critiques welcomed" and blue is for "I like some comments but try and be nice". What about that?

Message edited by author 2006-10-06 17:44:59.

10/06/2006 05:52:40 PM · #18

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

A Possible Solution
We ALMOST already have something in place to do that. It is the critique club indicator box that can be checked at image submission time.

If it were indicated on the voting screen that the critique box had been checked then concientious commenters would know up front that a person wanted in-depth comments and could act accordingly. AND, it could help out the critique club which are already overworked.

I like that idea but what about a more universal solution though? I'm thinking instead of tying this to a specific photo what about tying it to the photographer instead? For example, say ou had an option on your preferences page to set the level of feedback you wanted. Once you set it it would apply to all of your photos and would show up on the photo page as a colored icon of some sort. Say red is for "harsh critiques welcomed" and blue is for "be nice".

That is close to my original thought, put a checkbox on the user profile page. The problem with that is that it is easy to check and forget. Pretty soon everyone has it set and it loses its effectiveness.

If you use the critique indicator box it has to be checked each time you submit and for a specific entry. It puts responsibility on the submitter to indicate which images they want critiqued. I know that I, for one, would not want a blanket request to critique each and every image but probably would want one for experimental pictures I try every once in a while.

Another advantage of the critique box solution is that it is reasonably easy to implement.

Message edited by author 2006-10-06 17:57:50.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

10/06/2006 06:02:03 PM · #19

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

A Possible Solution
We ALMOST already have something in place to do that. It is the critique club indicator box that can be checked at image submission time.

If it were indicated on the voting screen that the critique box had been checked then concientious commenters would know up front that a person wanted in-depth comments and could act accordingly. AND, it could help out the critique club which are already overworked.

I like that idea but what about a more universal solution though? I'm thinking instead of tying this to a specific photo what about tying it to the photographer instead? For example, say ou had an option on your preferences page to set the level of feedback you wanted. Once you set it it would apply to all of your photos and would show up on the photo page as a colored icon of some sort. Say red is for "harsh critiques welcomed" and blue is for "be nice".

That is close to my original thought, put a checkbox on the user profile page. The problem with that is that it is easy to check and forget. Pretty soon everyone has it set and it loses its effectiveness.

If you use the critique indicator box it has to be checked each time you submit and for a specific entry. It puts responsibility on the submitter to indicate which images they want critiqued. I know that I, for one, would not want a blanket request to critique each and every image but probably would want one for experimental pictures I try every once in a while.

Another advantage of the critique box solution is that it is reasonably easy to implement.

Ok then what about using my idea to set the "level of feedback" desired? You still have to check the checkbox each time but when you do it will show up on the voting page with an indicator showing your preference (i.e. harsh or be nice). That for me is the biggest issue for leaving comments, i.e. knowing if true/honest feedback is desired.

Edited for clarity.

Message edited by author 2006-10-06 18:04:08.

LucidLotus

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

10/06/2006 06:03:24 PM · #20

Originally posted by stdavidson:

The only way I can see this helping out the Critique Club is if the two tick boxes were linked so you could only click one or the other. I know there are a number of people who just click the critique club box out of habit since its right there with all the other required boxes and some people do want ALL of their photos critiqued.

If there were to be two options, CClub and In-depth comment then I would suggest that clicking on one of the boxes means you can't click on the other or else you'll simply keep the CC just as overwhelmed AND be having people wanting in-depth commentry too.

'Course, that's just my perception. :)

Gunnsi

Sony DSLR-A550

Sony 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 (E-mount)

10/06/2006 07:02:04 PM · #21

Sometimes I find comments on my pictures to be "almost rude" but then again, although it maybe is rude, it is helpful to me to see how others react on it!
Only once I have reported a comment, it was not on one of my pictures, but it was really rude and had nothing to do with how the picture was done. Soon I noticed it had been taken away.

So mostly, if not all, comments I receive are marked by me as helpful.
IMO there is no need to change the way comments are marked now.

If we really want a comment on how we can improve our pictures, just post it in the forums after the challenge!

Ivo

10/06/2006 07:28:52 PM · #22

The comment issue has been an "issue" as long as I've been here and likely long before. The biggest gripe I have about making comments is when your efforts are not even acknowledged. I also realize that when I enter a comment such as "Cool shot" it cannot be helpful but it is like taking the time to sign a guest book. Whether it is a positive or negative comment received on my photo really should not matter, I must appreciate that someone took that extra "cybersecond" to do so. That in of itself is impressive considering the fast pace of the web. It would be burdensome for the admins to employ an evaluation on the quality of comments when the receipient of the comment can just as easily send a polite PM to the commentors if they wish greater clarity. The photographer should show the initiative for something that would beneift them.

The existing process may be enhanced if we change the wording from "helpful" to "Received (or something)" for each comment given to our photo. If we do not check this off within a set amount of time, the comment gets purged and it is our loss. I'd say this would bve a good lesson in manners for those who feel entitled to "only" receive.

Just a thought.

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/06/2006 07:43:58 PM · #23

My comments are always extremely helpful. If the recipient doesn't think so, they are wrong.

10/06/2006 09:44:34 PM · #24

Originally posted by yanko:

There is not anything really wrong with the suggestion but it probably would not affect how I'd comment on anything. I think people want an honest assessment of their work and when done right a level of assessment is probably not necessary.

For examples of "good" comments, those DrAchoo left on images in this discussion:
DrAchoo Comments are good!