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10/05/2006 05:04:50 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by cryan:
How bout this one, you will get a more harsh sentence if you are busted with acid then if you were to commit murder. Really, I'm not joking about this one. I believe its 10 years for a single "hit" of acid. |
Welcome to the ignorant world of mandatory minimums.
Actually not 10 years for 1 hit but you have the right idea... the weight of the medium, in most cases thick paper, is counted toward the weight of the "drug".
I know a violin prodigy who got screwed by a buddy of his who was making a deal who talked him into being the go between.
When the feds weren't able to catch the big fish they decided to at least get something for their effort and he went away for 5 years.
In most cases you are right on the money, General, (the "cure" for those kids is not criminalization/incarceration -- that will only potentiate their problems) but luckily for him he was able to channel it and is now a somewhat famous jazz musician.
Message edited by author 2006-10-05 17:05:42.
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10/05/2006 05:13:40 PM · #27 |
mice test is flawed. How can you test an animal like a mouse for social behavior and sexual drive. its a mouse. I bet the mouse couldn't learn algebra while high either.
Mice are used for experiment that can be linked to humans. tell me the mice had black lungs from smoking or died from teh carbon monoxide, but don't tell me it didn't want to have sex because it was stoned.
The gateway drug concept has been used for years. Curiosity killed the cat. We should say that some of those drugs are probably fun, but if done in excess, your life priorities change and that can have detrimental effects.
For the school kids coming in high. Everyone in high school says it doens't effect them, I said that. Its a maturity thing. Does it effect my health negatively, probably yes. Does it effect my ability to hold down a job, do photography, create a business, do martial arts and have a social life absolutely not. |
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10/05/2006 05:17:13 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by rswank:
In most cases you are right on the money, General, (the "cure" for those kids is not criminalization/incarceration -- that will only potentiate their problems) but luckily for him he was able to channel it and is now a somewhat famous jazz musician. |
Yeah, pot really destroyed the creative intellectual abilities of John Lennon, Bob Marley, Jerry Garcia, Willie Nelson ...
To paraphrase a line from from the NRA, drugs don't kill people, people abusing drugs kill people. With every substance -- marijuana, heroin, aspirin, even water -- there's a limit between use and abuse. (Sometimes, as with cocaine, the limit virtually disappears, though there are "safer" procedures for its use, as during nasal surgery.) The trick is to teach people how to avoid abuse/physiologic damage without prohibiting the substance itself, much as we have tried to do with alcohol after the repeal of Prohibition -- you know, when gangs shot up the streets in turf wars, back in the 1920's ... |
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10/05/2006 05:22:30 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by karmat:
This is my experience as a teacher.
Most of my students smoke(d) pot. Of those that used the "worse" drugs, (meth, coke, etc), all of them admitted to smoking pot first and using the others for a "bigger high."
My most frustrating experiences went like this --
Day 1 -- Cover a new concept.
Day 2 -- Review and practice new concept (mostly review because they didn't remember it).
Day 3 -- Review and practice no longer new concept.
Day 4 -- Give a "test" on said concept and listen to wails that we had never done this before.
Day 5 -- Go over "new" concept again.
ad nauseum.
My beef isn't against MJ. My beef is against what it does to the brains of those who inhale it. BUT, to hear them tell it, it makes them remember better, be more alert, and be better students. NOT. And nothing will ever convince me otherwise. I've seen too many giggly, munchy, glassy-eyed teenagers look at me completely blankly when I ask them to tell me what I've just said to them. My sutdents acted just like those mice in the study vxpra mentioned.
Sorry, this subject frustrates me to no end. |
Wow. It's unbelievable they're coming into your class like that. Do you take the same measures to correct this kind of thing as you would if they came into your class drunk? |
Such as . . .
Which brings up another point that was in another thread several days ago. I am their teacher. Not their drug counselor. My class starts at one o'clock in the afternoon. What they do between the hour of arising and teh hour of my class is out of my control.
If they come to my class high (or drunk), they are sent home, once we secure a safe mode of transportation. More of my time spent on the results of their recreational activities that could have been used to teach them a skill they needed to "make it" in teh world, should they choose to use it.
Originally posted by generalE:
There is a certain cachet and attraction for young people to the forbidden, particularly when the cautionary advertisements about it are rife with lurid misrepresentations and largely devoid of medical/physiological facts.
How many of those same kids smoked tobacco? Drank alcohol? Drank milk? Confusion between association and causation is a common error when interpreting any type of study -- it takes great care to design a study/question which avoids the issue.
In any event, the "cure" for those kids is not criminalization/incarceration -- that will only potentiate their problems. |
How many of those same kids smoked tobacco? 100%
Drank alcohol? 100%
Drank milk? very few, unless it was free at lunch.
Is that the point you are making?
Legal or not, it still turns teenagers into mindless zombies. making it legal is NOT going to stop that. Cigarettes are "legal" here. They don't say, "oh, gee, cigarettes are legal, therefore I'm not going to smoke."
Criminalization may not "cure" them, but handing it to them on a silver platter certainly won't. And telling them it is harmless, that it should be legal because it is good in some situation, is doing even more harm.
Unfortunately, I've never seen a "legalize" campaign that acknowledged that smoking pot can cause cancer and the other side effects. Is that the medical/physiological facts you are referring to? My students never seem to be shown those statistics, because they think I am blowing smoke (no pun intended) when I try to tell them teh negatives of the stuff, and I am just trying to control their life. |
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10/05/2006 05:26:36 PM · #30 |
I enjoyed the couch commercial and think it's a much better way to reach kids other then sticking the consequences in their face like some other adverts or campaigns. It's normal to explore and want to rebel when you are growing up (same deal with adults too I'm sure) so what better to defy than the hundreds of don't do this messages we are plastered with.
I feel knowledge (instead of force) about the drugs people are doing will lead to less use. |
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10/05/2006 05:27:00 PM · #31 |
even teaching the difference between use and abuse is dangerous. What consitutes abuse? How can this be applied to society as a whole?
I think what people need to be taught is self control and balance. Its all about decision making. If a teen can make the decision that they won't smoke a joint on the way to school, but will smoke a joint after they do their work at night, I see that as a possitive.
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10/05/2006 05:28:35 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Unfortunately, I've never seen a "legalize" campaign that acknowledged that smoking pot can cause cancer and the other side effects. Is that the medical/physiological facts you are referring to? My students never seem to be shown those statistics, because they think I am blowing smoke (no pun intended) when I try to tell them teh negatives of the stuff, and I am just trying to control their life. |
Yeah, that's a lot of it. They don't listen to you now because they've been lied to (not by you, mostly by the government) for so long.
Decriminalization/legalization is not the same as "handing it to them on a silver platter." That is, as they say, a cheap rhetorical trick. I've never seen a legalization campaign which involved platters of any kind, nor any recommendation that marijuana be made available to minors. |
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10/05/2006 05:29:04 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by cryan:
How bout this one, you will get a more harsh sentence if you are busted with acid then if you were to commit murder. Really, I'm not joking about this one. I believe its 10 years for a single "hit" of acid. |
You didn't mention the location but here in California, no. |
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10/05/2006 05:31:25 PM · #34 |
| Unfortunately, most teens that I know (not all of them, obviously) have a really difficult time grasping the concept of "appropriatness". "If it is okay after work, why is it not okay before school? If it is okay for adults, why not for me?" They seem to think that is double standard of sorts. |
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10/05/2006 05:33:20 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:
There are a lot of drug laws that are necessary, no one should be able to get morphine for fun. |
Adults should.
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10/05/2006 05:40:49 PM · #36 |
Karmat, there is no debate for whether smoking weed is dangerous to your health. Burning plant matter inhaled to the lungs can't be good.
These kids sound like hight school juniors, maybe sophmores to me. Pot is there thing. They feel it makes them elite, its the pot heads v. the non smokers. They will never give in that it has negative effects, but who cares. They are young and rebellious. Try to see them for who they really are. Can these kids do critical thinking, make decisions on their own? How will they do in the real world?
I was one of them in high school. I smoked everyday from 11th grade on. I also graduated college with honors, studied abroad, hold a full time job, started my own company and train aikido and iaido.
If you can't see past their pot smoking to who they really are, than the problem is with you. sorry if that is offensive, but I think its the truth. If you count them off as useless pot smokers than they will pick up on that attitude and do just that. |
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10/05/2006 06:43:10 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:
There are a lot of drug laws that are necessary, no one should be able to get morphine for fun. |
Adults should. |
I agree. What doesn't infringe on others should be legal. We allow people to drink but then if you drive while drunk (i.e. infringing on other people's safety) you get penalized, which is how it should work for everything. Education is the only solution IMO so attack the problem with that.
Speaking of which, yesterday I was flipping through the channels and came across a kids show called Double Dare or something, which has two teams made up of families. The kids and parents work together to answer questions. Well one of the questions was and I'm paraphrasing, Executive branch is one of the branches of government, name the other two. Guess what happened. Both teams couldn't answer nor the parents on both teams (mom and dad). I was like OH MY GOD! and then I changed the channel but not before taping it on tivo.
Message edited by author 2006-10-05 18:45:39.
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10/05/2006 06:47:25 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by yanko:
...Both teams couldn't answer nor the parents on both teams (mom and dad). I was like OH MY GOD! and then I changed the channel... |
When you changed channels did you land on the Tonight Show when they were showing Jay Walking? The combination of the two events could be enough to make one's head explode. |
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10/05/2006 08:16:49 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Originally posted by yanko:
...Both teams couldn't answer nor the parents on both teams (mom and dad). I was like OH MY GOD! and then I changed the channel... |
When you changed channels did you land on the Tonight Show when they were showing Jay Walking? The combination of the two events could be enough to make one's head explode. |
No. I guess I'm lucky. :P
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10/06/2006 12:54:37 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by yanko:
I agree. What doesn't infringe on others should be legal. |
I would agree with this and not agree with this. I work as an ED RN...I am infringed on by loud, mean, combative patients every day, because of drugs and/or alcohol. I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THEM. I have been punched, kicked, scratched, almost bit, spit on, peed on, and many others and combinations of. It makes me angry, one because these people usually are never charged with battery, etc. Two because others make excuses for them. "They are real nice person, WHEN THEY ARE NOT HIGH or DRUNK. BAHHHHH!
I just say legalize everything. You can pick up so much of any damn drug you feel at the pharmacy every week. BUT...you can never use emergency or social services for YOUR CHOICES. "Yes...911! My friend isn't breathing. He took a bunch of heroin!!!" Sorry...hope he makes it, but your agreement in using drugs means we don't come. Good Night. That would weed out alot of drug use...sooner or later. (some of this can be taken tongue in cheek, by the way).
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