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DPChallenge Forums >> Business of Photography >> Publisher wants originals now, contract later???
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 10/03/2006 10:40:32 PM · #1
Hey gang,

I got an inquiry from a buyer on Photographers Direct for one of my stock shots. All well and good, and I'm quite excited because they are interested in my photo for a chapter opener, about 3/4 page!

But, of course, there is a catch. They want the hi-res original now, and will only sign a use agreement and contract when the book goes to press, in December. They say that they are laying out over 3000 photos for their books this year, all within the next 6 weeks. They want to get as many photos layed out in the final format as they can. I asked them if they could use a full size, but watermarked/low-res photo for layout and when they were ready to sign an agreement I would send them the full-res version in 24 hours.

They countered that they won't know the print run and exact usage until much later in the project, and they don't want to sign a use agreement until they know for sure how they are going to use my image. They said that if I am not comfortable sending out the high-res version now then "I guess we will have to wait until everything is more final."

I really don't want to queer this deal, but at the same time I don't want my stuff stolen. I don't think this will happen, this is a nationally known, reputable publisher, but I'm afraid that if I let my guard down once...

My last email to them offered the full-res version now if they would sign a "non-use" agreement, basically my standard use agreement but specifically granting them no rights to the image unless another use agreement supercedes the current one. I figure that way if something does go down then at least I'll have a sheet of paper to take with me to court. They haven't responded back to that idea yet.

Basically I'm just looking for some options on how to deal with this. I have every reason to believe they are legit, and this would be a pretty major sale... but I just can't help being paronid... :(
 10/03/2006 10:48:37 PM · #2
Just because you are paronid does not mean they are not out to get you huh :-))

Tough one. On one hand I can see their point and on the other they might be using the image to help sell the project - with a low cost.no risk to them if the "project" does not occur. I don't quite understand why they would not go for a watermarked full res version until the signed a real use contract but I guess...

I think your thought of signing a non-commercial use is a reasonable step and I don't see why they would have a problem. It does not address them basically using the image to help sell the project but if you want the sale...

Not sure any of this helped really :-)
 10/03/2006 11:05:30 PM · #3
hey Andrew,

I don't know much about contracts, so take this all with a grain of salt, but - I agree with Rob that your non-use agreement sounds like a good idea. If they say something to the same effect - that they won't use the image until they draw up a contract - as long as you assent to that, that should be enough to CYA. And really, you're right about their reputation - seems unlikely they'd risk the PR trouble that would result if you made a stink about unlicensed use of your image.
 10/04/2006 12:27:39 AM · #4
My suggestion would be to get your image registered with the copyright office, if you haven't already. And if you haven't sold, rented, leased or made money on it more than 90 days ago. If you are selling stock photos, you should have them all registered before they go out your door anyway.

The big advantage of having your images registered (at least here in the US) is that should they rip you off and you have to take them to court and win, they not only get to pay any judgement against them (which could be nothing to a lot) but they get to pay all court costs and legal fees for both of you. So even if you didn't get anything in a judgement, the fact that they have to pay all legal fees could still end up costing them a big bunch of money. Most people that know about copyright (and they should know plenty about it) will usually roll over and pay your asking price to keep it out of courts if they find out the image is registered.

The registration starts the day the copyright office gets the images too, although it might take 3 months to get the certificate of registration. And you can register a bunch at one time by putting them all on a CD. It takes about 15 minutes to fill out the form (if you are slow like me) and costs $45 (the price went up this summer). So if you haven't registered them yet, get them registered.

Here is the Copyright Office web site: //www.copyright.gov/

Mike
 10/04/2006 01:36:45 AM · #5
Hi
Ive had the same happen to me before. I always send photos/prints and invoice the buyer after. I have the view that the buyer isnt going to inquire to buy a photo without expecting to pay. Often the buyer will request an invoice after publication. Thats fine with me. It might sound naive but I have always been paid and Ive sold quite a bit.
 10/04/2006 01:40:46 AM · #6
It's not an unusual request. Go for it.
 10/05/2006 03:18:23 PM · #7
get the contract signed first. whether it was a freelance gig or from your bizness, do it right the first time.
 10/05/2006 05:22:00 PM · #8
It is going through Photographers Direct, they will want their cut also, so I think you have some back up on it if it is used without payment.
I think it is a good idea to just send along an agreement, in their words, about its use (for layout) and final payment agreement upon it going to press. You can start looking up the numbers now for what you will want to be paid vs what they offer. This here. Who knows they may want to run more than they think right now, and you should be able to get the premium since your picture is already "at press."
I would make sure within the agreement you send now, that NO published use is given until payment is negotiated and accepted by you.
 10/05/2006 05:38:20 PM · #9
If you cannot say who the publisher is in the forum, PM me with the name. I have been working with publishers in the USA, UK, Taiwan, and China for 14 years in the copyright licensing field, as a copyright agent. If the publisher is a known entity, possibly OK. If not, I would not be so happy with the request. As for remuneration, have they stated how much they are to pay you and what the print run of the book is to be. On one hand, a publisher (let's say of text books) has a lot of images in which to clear rights to usage and it is easy to understand that their editors are drowned in such work; on the other hand, better to be safe than sorry.
 10/05/2006 05:42:19 PM · #10
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
I would make sure within the agreement you send now, that NO published use is given until payment is negotiated and accepted by you.
If I were a publisher I would be leary about signing a contract before hand saying I couldnt publish something until an agreed upon price was established. That really leaves the door open in your favor.

What may be the best way to do it is give them a broken down list of the pricing for various options. Then, when they determine how many copies etc they will publish the price wont be a surprise to them and they dont have to worry about you holding their feet to the fire by asking for some insanely high price once you know they have the layout done and are ready to goto press.

Just thinking out loud. :)

10/05/2006 05:48:16 PM · #11
that's fishy. they want the photo now for layout yet they don't know what the exact usage is going to be.

i'd probably turn it down.

01/11/2007 08:22:06 AM · #12
I just had the same scenario from a publisher. I went ahead and sent the image and the invoice/contract later. They should be recieving it this week so I expect payment soon. It seems like common practice from what I have read. Keep us posted on what happens.

I imagine, If they screw you over, they ruin their standing with PD as well. I doubt they really want to do that.


Message edited by author 2007-01-11 08:23:01.
 01/16/2007 09:14:54 AM · #13
This surely point out one of the negatives of PD. The photographer himself must negotiate and must of them don't know the business well.

I myself would give a full res with a watermark in the middle. If they won't except that I think it's fishy (but I don't have any real experience with it.)

Another problem can be PD. What if the buyer doesn't pay ?? PS would want his money, that's for sure.

I know from first hand that PD often classifies a sale even when it is not complete done. what if the sale doesn't go true at the last moment ??
 01/16/2007 09:43:50 AM · #14
I am still waiting on payment. But, to answer your question.
There are checkboxes for each stage and if it is canceled or unpaid, we don't pay PD.
Once the last box gets checked, that the client paid, then PD bills us for their cut.
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