| Author | Thread |
|
|
09/28/2006 02:19:13 PM · #1 |
At lunch today I was out shooting for High Contrast. I pulled off along a frontage road and after about 10 minutes an unmarked black SUV pulled up behind my car. He put his lights on and got out and asked for my ID. He then asked about what I was doing and then went back to run my ID. After he returned he asked if I had any weapons in the car. I told him I didn't and was starting to open the door. I told him to search if he wanted. He bends over and picks up a shell from the driver's seat. Now I don't own a gun and never fired one... He quickly said that it fell out of his hood; he went to the shooting range earlier today. I must have looked shocked because he said, "You thought I planted it, didn't you?" I actually didn't, and told him that. I just couldn't figure out where it came from. So he finishes his search.
He then asks me where I work. This was after he saw the logo on my work jacket. I told him and I could tell he was gauging my answer. After all of this he told me why he checked me out. There had been two more shootings right along the highway I was taking pictures. The shooting have been happening for a couple of months. Stories from vicitms vary and there's been no serious damage, but of course the law is taking it very seriously. I was going back to my car and he said I could stay and take pictures that he didn't care, but other cops may stop me. I told him I had to get back to work.
So that's the story. Now.... I decided to "play dead" and let him do what he needed to do. I don't need the hassle. I had to get back to work. I have a family that will be waiting for me when I get home tonight. If he were an egotistical idiot and I pushed it, I could be in jail right now. He was actually very friendly and not antagonistic at all.
What bothered is that he didn't identify himself. Besides the lights on vehicle I had no way of knowing who he was. I had to ask at the end and he told me that he worked for the sheriff's department. Also, I'm pretty sure that he would have searched without my permission. And he didn't tell me why he wanted my ID or why he was questioning me.
So that's it. I knew it was only a matter of time... |
|
|
|
09/28/2006 02:23:58 PM · #2 |
...and did it remind you of our discussion the other day?
Although with a shooter in the area, I can see this as being more justified than the stops in the name of homeland security and the general war on photographers.
BTW - Thanks for going out to shoot with me the other day in Indiana!
|
|
|
|
09/28/2006 02:32:22 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
What bothered is that he didn't identify himself. Besides the lights on vehicle I had no way of knowing who he was. I had to ask at the end and he told me that he worked for the sheriff's department. Also, I'm pretty sure that he would have searched without my permission. And he didn't tell me why he wanted my ID or why he was questioning me. |
This should always be the first thing you ask, especially with an unmarked car. If you're in your car, crack the window (never roll it down enough for someone to reach in). Explain that you believe he has a job to do, but your concern for your safety requires that you confirm the officer's identity before you can let him go about his business. Ask for a business card or a badge number, then ask if it's okay to excuse yourself for a moment to call 911 to confirm legitimacy. I don't mean to be sexist, but this is especially important if you're female. There have been a lot of cop impersonators out there lately. Unless the guy is a complete jackass, he should be cooperative and understanding about it.
My dad's a cop, and I work in a bank where we approach paranoia about kidnappings and hostage situations. Earlier this year in the United Kingdom, a police impersonator pulled over a bank manager and got him into the back of his car, because the bank manager never thought to question his identity. They now have a valuable hostage. Their next step was to go to the guy's house and collect his wife and kids, telling her there had been an accident and they should come with them. She didn't question their legitimacy, either. Now they have a hostage they can blackmail since they can threaten the bank manager with harm to his family if he doesn't open the vault. That's not really related to photographers' rights, per se, but it's a good example of why you should never take it for granted that the cop who pulls you over is legit.
Message edited by author 2006-09-28 14:38:01.
|
|
|
|
09/28/2006 02:36:22 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
...and did it remind you of our discussion the other day?
Although with a shooter in the area, I can see this as being more justified than the stops in the name of homeland security and the general war on photographers.
BTW - Thanks for going out to shoot with me the other day in Indiana! |
I told him that I had no problems with being stopped; it was a very good reason. I had completely forgotten about the shooter(s) in the area, even though I drive on that road every day.
I need to get those GTG pics on here soon... |
|
|
|
09/28/2006 02:36:24 PM · #5 |
Sounds like you handled it just right. Being unmarked, I would have asked him for some ID when he asked for mine, politely of course, and don't know that I would have okayed a search, but that's just me.
It's good to hear about an instance where the officer had real cause and was friendly instead of taking the instant hardass position , as seems to often happen.
From the sound of this, it was handled well and kept from becoming something that everyone would get worked up about.
Glad to hear that you made it through okay! :-)
|
|
|
|
09/28/2006 02:40:22 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by karmabreeze:
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
What bothered is that he didn't identify himself. Besides the lights on vehicle I had no way of knowing who he was. I had to ask at the end and he told me that he worked for the sheriff's department. Also, I'm pretty sure that he would have searched without my permission. And he didn't tell me why he wanted my ID or why he was questioning me. |
This should always be the first thing you ask, especially with an unmarked car. If you're in your car, crack the window (never roll it down enough for someone to reach in). Explain that you believe he has a job to do, but your concern for your safety requires that you confirm the officer's identity before you can let him go about his business. Ask for a business card or a badge number, then ask if it's okay to excuse yourself for a moment to call 911 to confirm legitimacy. I don't mean to be sexist, but this is especially important if you're female. There have been a lot of cop impersonators out there lately. Unless the guy is a complete jackass, he should be cooperative and understanding about it.
My dad's a cop, and I work in a bank where we approach paranoia about kidnappings and hostage situations. Earlier this year in the United Kingdom, a police impersonator pulled over a bank manager and got him into the back of his car, because the bank manager never thought to question his identity. They now have a valuable hostage. Their next step was to go to the guy's house and collect his wife and kids, telling her there had been an accident and they should come with them. Now they have a hostage they can blackmail since they can threaten the bank manager with harm to his family if he doesn't open the vault. That's not really related to photographers' rights, per se, but it's a good example of why you should never take it for granted that the cop who pulls you over is legit. |
This is good advice you give. I didn't feel threatened at all, but I should have been suspicious. I even happened to have a copy of the "photographer's rights" sitting on my seat, but in the heat of the moment decided it wasn't worth it. |
|
|
|
09/28/2006 02:41:42 PM · #7 |
I have been stopped as well shooitng under a railroad bridge. i cooperated and it was over quickly. the cops demeaner will dictate how i act. It seems he was polite and so were you. that is the way it should always be. and now you can tell your boss "sorry i was late coming back from lunch. I was being questioned in regaurds to the shooter. BTW about that raise I am due":P
Message edited by author 2006-09-28 14:42:15. |
|
|
|
09/28/2006 02:41:44 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
Sounds like you handled it just right. Being unmarked, I would have asked him for some ID when he asked for mine, politely of course, and don't know that I would have okayed a search, but that's just me.
It's good to hear about an instance where the officer had real cause and was friendly instead of taking the instant hardass position , as seems to often happen.
From the sound of this, it was handled well and kept from becoming something that everyone would get worked up about.
Glad to hear that you made it through okay! :-) |
Thanks - but unfortunately I didn't get all the shots I wanted! I was tempted to keep shooting while he was running my ID, but didn't know how he'd react. |
|
|
|
09/28/2006 02:48:20 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
Sounds like you handled it just right. Being unmarked, I would have asked him for some ID when he asked for mine, politely of course, and don't know that I would have okayed a search, but that's just me.
It's good to hear about an instance where the officer had real cause and was friendly instead of taking the instant hardass position , as seems to often happen.
From the sound of this, it was handled well and kept from becoming something that everyone would get worked up about.
Glad to hear that you made it through okay! :-) |
Thanks - but unfortunately I didn't get all the shots I wanted! I was tempted to keep shooting while he was running my ID, but didn't know how he'd react. |
Ha, I'd certainly give you the cajones award if you had done that... ;)
|
|
|
|
09/28/2006 03:00:22 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
What bothered is that he didn't identify himself. Besides the lights on vehicle I had no way of knowing who he was. I had to ask at the end and he told me that he worked for the sheriff's department. Also, I'm pretty sure that he would have searched without my permission. And he didn't tell me why he wanted my ID or why he was questioning me. |
More and more I am finding a great abundance of cops who have uber-sized egos. Are simply rude, unprofessional, and intimidating. I've bitten my tongue a few times...and I've been just about fed up. I am thankful for two cops last winter who unbeknownst to them did great wonders for their job. I was about to write off all police officers as under-educated self-righteous !@#$%. But a friend and I were trying to move his dead truck into my driveway. They came around in their cruiser and flashed their lights. I was almost irate....I'm like, this is my house, my friend, and we're just pushing the car into the driveway....and now I have to be harassed. Much to my surprise the first words out of their mouths were "You guys need a hand?"
This simple event helped keep my heart from labelling all officers as de facto fecal matter.
And I have enough reasons to do so, I have a long history of negative experiences with police officers:
- at 12, some off-duty young officers thought it'd be fun to harass a kid and cut his crabbing net loose from the pier.
- An officer who was supposed to be manning the lights, and that I believe to have fallen asleep on the job. After sitting at the light for 15 minutes I finally crossed it. He threw such an attitude and refused to give me his badge number.
- Had a 911 call responded to by the following "It's New Haven...what do you want us do about."
- Was with friends and the cop pulled my friend over apparently for driving recklessly. In truth, my friend is a bit reckless and a frightening driver. However, at this moment she did nothing of the sort. She slowed down briefly at a split on a highway entrance and nothing more. The guy claimed she was all over the road and had video to prove it. (Considering I did not even react this was far from the case.) The real reason. The taillight cover had fallen off. The tape holding had loosened. The cop just didn't want to admit that was why he pulled us over. He was extremely rude and belligerant. He stated to my friends "I pulled you over for a couple of reasons." And they asked the officer (very politely and friendly) what they were pulled over for. The officer got in their face and loudly yelled "I told you, I pulled you over for two reasons." I nearly called 9-11, and requested a second officer be sent immediately. The guys eyes were all freaked out, and he was probably on speed or some sort of drug. The guy was freaky.
- More recently, I got pulled over (for a rolling stop), which it wasn't My brakes had issue and would really screech. So when I was in a residential neighborhood I'd make a slower stop. But the real reason was not the stop at all. He had been following me for a few blocks. Why? Because my headlight was out. Mind you, it was daytime and not a requirement that my headlights be activated. And he knew that...but oh what fun to be a small town cop and harass some poor out of stater.
But I've grown very tired of cops attitudes. You are there to serve and protect me. Unless I've committed a crime - I am your boss not the other way around. Lose the attitude.
*sighs*
It's a shame, cause I grew up a Boy scout, even an Eagle Scout. I grew up with a tremendous respect for police officers. In the past 5 yrs police have pretty much lowered my esteem of most of them to something just above street thugs and gang bangers.
An officer's attitude makes a big difference regarding my response. The officer doesn't have to be friendly. But he does have to be both civil and professional. I have decided in the future that if I encounter a rude or unprofessional officer I am going to call 911 and demand a second officer be sent.
Message edited by author 2006-09-28 15:03:26. |
|
|
|
09/28/2006 03:02:12 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
Sounds like you handled it just right. Being unmarked, I would have asked him for some ID when he asked for mine, politely of course, and don't know that I would have okayed a search, but that's just me.
It's good to hear about an instance where the officer had real cause and was friendly instead of taking the instant hardass position , as seems to often happen.
From the sound of this, it was handled well and kept from becoming something that everyone would get worked up about.
Glad to hear that you made it through okay! :-) |
Thanks - but unfortunately I didn't get all the shots I wanted! I was tempted to keep shooting while he was running my ID, but didn't know how he'd react. |
It would have been especially infuriating if you were trying to catch some fleeting light, like sunrise or sunset. "Officer, please hold on a few minutes while I get these shots! Oh, by the way, can you please stand over there and pose for me" ;)
DPC is a website devoted to shooters! ;)
|
|
|
|
09/28/2006 03:06:16 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
It would have been especially infuriating if you were trying to catch some fleeting light, like sunrise or sunset. "Officer, please hold on a few minutes while I get these shots! Oh, by the way, can you please stand over there and pose for me" ;)
DPC is a website devoted to shooters! ;) |
That's EXACTLY what happened to me. I was pulling into a Circuit City and had my Olympus E-20N with me and happened to see this awesome sunset above the railroad depot. It was this really cool large solid orange sun and over all the rail cars made for an interesting shot.
Out of no where a police officer appears, questions me, takes my ID. Finally okays me but by then the shot was lost.
MY ONE QUESTION....how the !@#$% can cops respond so quickly to a photographer and yet seem unable to respond to any of my 9-11 calls.
*ponders* |
|
|
|
09/28/2006 03:26:22 PM · #13 |
It is an unfortunate side effect of the current world situation that innocent but potentially suspicious behavior attracts unwanted attention from law enforcement.
As long as criminal/terrorist activities continue photographers will be legitimately looked on suspicionly given it is a common method for casing potential attack sites. Our society has become paranoid.
|
|
|
|
09/28/2006 03:28:05 PM · #14 |
It could have been much worse... when he asked what you were doing, you could have responded, "Oh, I'm just doing a little shooting today..."
|
|
|
|
09/28/2006 03:47:39 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
It could have been much worse... when he asked what you were doing, you could have responded, "Oh, I'm just doing a little shooting today..." |
now THAT is funny. |
|
|
|
09/28/2006 03:50:01 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
It could have been much worse... when he asked what you were doing, you could have responded, "Oh, I'm just doing a little shooting today..." |
He said he saw me from the highway. After the incident I remembered that when I was across the frontage road, I turned around and watched traffic for a minute. I pointed my "shooter" toward the exit because it looked neat and I thought about taking a picture, but it didn't look so good through the viewfinder. I wonder if that's when he saw me and decided to get off and investigate.
Here's info on the original shooting spree: Cline Shooter |
|
|
|
09/28/2006 03:55:22 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
It could have been much worse... when he asked what you were doing, you could have responded, "Oh, I'm just doing a little shooting today..." |
Or, "No officer, I don't have a gun. I use a Canon!"
|
|
|
|
09/28/2006 04:34:33 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
It is an unfortunate side effect of the current world situation that innocent but potentially suspicious behavior attracts unwanted attention from law enforcement.
As long as criminal/terrorist activities continue photographers will be legitimately looked on suspicionly given it is a common method for casing potential attack sites. Our society has become paranoid. |
Yep, those damn terrorists.
Always taking pictures with tripods and nice expensive SLRs out in the open for anyone and everyone to see.
Btw, what is the verdict on being forced to show your ID?
No probable cause or reasonable suspicion required?
Just the fact that there had been some shootings on that road were enough?
There are crack heads, prositutes, burglaries and murders all around my neighborhood (I live downtown) so by that logic I can be ID'd anytime I'm out b/c "there has been some (name your crime) in the area"?
Luckily I haven't really had any problems with cops.
Maybe small town cops are predisposed to be assholes vs. bigger cities?
Less oversight and liabilities.
Message edited by author 2006-09-28 16:34:59. |
|
|
|
09/28/2006 05:27:34 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by rswank:
Btw, what is the verdict on being forced to show your ID?
No probable cause or reasonable suspicion required?
Just the fact that there had been some shootings on that road were enough?
There are crack heads, prositutes, burglaries and murders all around my neighborhood (I live downtown) so by that logic I can be ID'd anytime I'm out b/c "there has been some (name your crime) in the area"?
Luckily I haven't really had any problems with cops.
Maybe small town cops are predisposed to be assholes vs. bigger cities?
Less oversight and liabilities. |
I don't think it was entirely out of line to stop and question me. I was standing behind the median and at one point even faced the road with my "canon". When he told me about the shootings, he pointed to the exit, which was a couple hundred yards from when I was standing. He didn't force me to show the ID, but if I refused I'm sure my afternoon would have been entirely different.
When I told somebody at work about this they questioned why he would have a shell in the hood of his jacket. Yes, that is strange.
The last time I read, the city here had about 85k people. I wouldn't really classify it as smalltown, and it has many of the big problems of larger cities. |
|
|
|
09/28/2006 05:37:26 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
Sounds like you handled it just right. Being unmarked, I would have asked him for some ID when he asked for mine, politely of course, and don't know that I would have okayed a search, but that's just me.
It's good to hear about an instance where the officer had real cause and was friendly instead of taking the instant hardass position , as seems to often happen.
From the sound of this, it was handled well and kept from becoming something that everyone would get worked up about. |
I agree -- it sounds as though you both felt your way to a reasonable compromise, with you compromising just a bit more, in keeping with your position of disadvantage.
I guess I'd score it about 21-19 in favor of the police officer. : ) |
|
|
|
09/29/2006 12:15:39 AM · #21 |
I go out shooting in public now just waiting to be harrassed by cops. After all, I have nothing to hide and last time I checked taking pictures isn't illegal.
So when they come around and start asking questions I kindly point out the facts.
"If I was breaking the law I wouldn't do it in broad daylight with a $250 tripod and a $1300 DSLR. Yes, you can see my ID all you want, yes I own a gun, yes I have it with me, and yes I have a license for it; yet another thing criminals don't usually carry with them." Then I proceed to ask them a lot of questions because, well, if they want to waste my time I'll more than gladly waste theirs. I know they have to do their job but on a scale of 1 to rediculous they usually approach me with attitudes and questions more toward the rediculous side.
If nice police officers approach me and say things like "excuse me" or "I'm sorry to bother you sir but we have had some reports..." or "can I just ask you a few quick questions sir..." - then I'll more than accomodate them and show the respect they deserve and obviously desire. But I can't stand the $#*holes and everyone is right, more and more cops are crossing the line in regards to their attitude.
Message edited by author 2006-09-29 00:18:19.
|
|
|
|
09/29/2006 01:23:32 AM · #22 |
| That's kind of weird.. cops have always pretty much ignored me, even when I was doing things that people sometimes get warned about (riding my bike on private property or in a skate park, taking pictures). But a few other people have harassed me about taking a picture of them or their stuff before. |
|
|
|
09/29/2006 10:42:14 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
At lunch today I was out shooting for High Contrast. I pulled off along a frontage road and after about 10 minutes an unmarked black SUV pulled up behind my car. |
So....... we'll know your high contrast shot because it has a black SUV?
:) :) :P
|
|
|
|
09/29/2006 10:55:21 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by fir3bird:
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
At lunch today I was out shooting for High Contrast. I pulled off along a frontage road and after about 10 minutes an unmarked black SUV pulled up behind my car. |
So....... we'll know your high contrast shot because it has a black SUV?
:) :) :P |
I didn't think of that at the time. But without the story I don't think it would have scored so well! |
|
