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10/01/2003 11:25:47 PM · #1 |
I got a comment on my "Irony" pic today...
"base 1: 1/1; challenge: 2/3; technical: 3/3; aesthetics: 2/3; total: 8"
Since I usually feel that I rate pix too high this helps me to give photos what I feel they truly deserve. A photo shouldn't be voted a 1 purely because you think it doesn't fit the challenge; this helps to give pix with high aesthetic qualities some chance.
I have adopted this style of voting and encourage others to as well.
Thanks hgpayne:) |
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10/01/2003 11:37:07 PM · #2 |
That style of comment is good, but sometimes you what to know how to improve an image. More contrast, less light, more dof, different crop, wrong colored frame, etc.
A suggestion on trying a different crop, frame, lighting, or post-production technique would be appreciated.
A detailed comment I believe is so much more helpful. I prefer to comment the way I like to recieve my comments.
Still nothing wrong with the way you suggested as long as a fair score is given.
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10/01/2003 11:40:02 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by Kali:
I got a comment on my "Irony" pic today...
"base 1: 1/1; challenge: 2/3; technical: 3/3; aesthetics: 2/3; total: 8"
Since I usually feel that I rate pix too high this helps me to give photos what I feel they truly deserve. A photo shouldn't be voted a 1 purely because you think it doesn't fit the challenge; this helps to give pix with high aesthetic qualities some chance.
I have adopted this style of voting and encourage others to as well.
Thanks hgpayne:) |
I suspect, it would depend on what's more relevant: a voters personal judgement void of any articulated facts derived from a photograph expressed in accountants' terms or a sincere attempt at critique including those facts? |
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10/01/2003 11:46:19 PM · #4 |
| I got the same type of rating... I have to admit I was somewhat annoyed, because the number didn't give me a clue how to improve it! |
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10/01/2003 11:55:41 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
I suspect, it would depend on what's more relevant: a voters personal judgement void of any articulated facts derived from a photograph expressed in accountants' terms or a sincere attempt at critique including those facts? |
Good point. The latter actually feeds information back to you, and it's incomparably more useful. Plus, let's not reduce everything to votes: voting is merely a ranking scale related to challenges, and I believe that - above some level - high votes are more about matching the tastes and expectations of the local community rather than anything else. So I wouldn't stress votes too much. I like better to have a mistake pointed out, or a suggestion made. Projecting everything on numerical values is less constructive.
Message edited by author 2003-10-01 23:56:25. |
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10/02/2003 12:07:56 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by irockstars:
I got the same type of rating... I have to admit I was somewhat annoyed, because the number didn't give me a clue how to improve it! |
Sorry. I was trying something new. I have put more detailed comments on photos before, but that resulted in only commenting on a few of the photos -- say 20 or so rather than every photo. In this particular challenge, I've commented on each and every one. Now maybe the comment isn't more than the one terse line, with the breakout of my personal vote, but it's something. Several people wrote and asked me to elaborate, and I did. The following explains my methodology -- strange as it may be. I used it to help me rate photos more consistently. Perhaps you disagree with the rating I gave you -- it's only natural -- my opinion is mine, not yours. I've given a '10' to photos that someone else thought was a '1' and visa versa. However right or wrong, at least I left some indication as to why my rating was what it was -- and I told each person what that rating was -- even if it was a 1, a 10 or something in between.
Here's the scoop, my rating as 4 values: base 1, challenge, technical, and aesthetics. These are explained below:
Base 1 -- (range of points 1-1) has to be 1 because there is no "zero" rating -- scale goes from 1 to 10, thus if everything else is zero, you still have a 1, so this one must be added to the other values to get the proper rating.
challenge: (range of points 0-3) 0 -- does not meet challenge; 1 -- the title is necessary to support understanding how the challenge is met; 2 -- the title points out how the photo matches the challenge, but once spotted, stands on it's own; 3 -- challenge topic is obvious in the photo without the need of even reading the title. Thus, a rating of 1/3 means you got 1 out of the possible 3 points.
technical: (range of points 0-3) This is kind of an inverse scale, 3 means no technical issues whatsoever; 2 -- one noticeable flaw, 1 -- two noticeable flaws or 1 major flaw; 0 - 3 flaws or 2 major flaws -- or more.
aesthetics: (range of points 0-3) 3 -- I'd like a framed print of this one to hang; 2 -- I'd use this shot as a screen background or screen saver photo; 1 -- I'd share this photo with someone if the topic warranted; 0 -- not worth sharing.
total: (range of points 1-10) This is just the sum of the above values and the photos rating.
This of course, is just my amateur opinion and in the greater scheme of things, doesn't really count for squat. I do hope I've explained my rating system though, and maybe you better understand why I gave you the rating I did. |
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10/02/2003 12:11:50 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by hgpayne:
Originally posted by irockstars:
I got the same type of rating... I have to admit I was somewhat annoyed, because the number didn't give me a clue how to improve it! |
Sorry. I was trying something new. I have put more detailed comments on photos before, but that resulted in only commenting on a few of the photos -- say 20 or so rather than every photo. |
This is the reason I don't mind it. It's good to know where people stand and rank. Also getting the other more detailed comments helps to improve on ones' photos. Some people just like looking at numbers. So your way is preferred.
My last entry got 41 "1's" I would like to know why. Crappy picture, totally didn't fit,snapshot, don't like this or that and why did I still get a "9" and one "8". Must have struck at least two voters.
Message edited by author 2003-10-02 00:16:09.
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10/02/2003 12:22:34 AM · #8 |
i like your methodology hgpayne. it should show the photographer that you took your time to score their picture, and not just a "glance & click". That way if someone gets a low score - they know why, and in what areas the picture was lacking in your opinion. And like you said, if they want more detail, they can always email you.
kudos to you for doing this - i hope that you continue.
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10/02/2003 12:23:08 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by faidoi:
That style of comment is good, but sometimes you what to know how to improve an image. More contrast, less light, more dof, different crop, wrong colored frame, etc.
A suggestion on trying a different crop, frame, lighting, or post-production technique would be appreciated.
A detailed comment I believe is so much more helpful. I prefer to comment the way I like to recieve my comments.
Still nothing wrong with the way you suggested as long as a fair score is given. |
Yeah I wasn't really commenting on the comment... just that I've adopted this style of voting, since it seems more fair.
ANY comment IMO, is appreciated... not always helpful or agreed with but simply appreciated.
Before this comment I felt that I didn't have any real guidlines to my voting process. Now in retrospect, I feel I was just guessing. A 10 was something I'd hang on my wall.
I would say that this has been one of the most helpful comments for me:) yet it said nothing in particular about my image.
Message edited by author 2003-10-02 00:50:51. |
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10/02/2003 12:25:17 AM · #10 |
That is a great Idea. Normally when I am voting I have two pools, one for the picture quality and one for how well it fits the theme. I tend to use the scorring as if I had a magazine based on (whatever theme) and was picking images for the front page in what order would I have the images. Ie the first month (best image) would have the highest vote several other close images would also have that same ranking. The idea that someone looking at the picture would know what the magazine's theme was and be curious enough to buy a copy.
Originally posted by hgpayne:
Originally posted by irockstars:
I got the same type of rating... I have to admit I was somewhat annoyed, because the number didn't give me a clue how to improve it! |
Sorry. I was trying something new. I have put more detailed comments on photos before, but that resulted in only commenting on a few of the photos -- say 20 or so rather than every photo. In this particular challenge, I've commented on each and every one. Now maybe the comment isn't more than the one terse line, with the breakout of my personal vote, but it's something. Several people wrote and asked me to elaborate, and I did. The following explains my methodology -- strange as it may be. I used it to help me rate photos more consistently. Perhaps you disagree with the rating I gave you -- it's only natural -- my opinion is mine, not yours. I've given a '10' to photos that someone else thought was a '1' and visa versa. However right or wrong, at least I left some indication as to why my rating was what it was -- and I told each person what that rating was -- even if it was a 1, a 10 or something in between.
Here's the scoop, my rating as 4 values: base 1, challenge, technical, and aesthetics. These are explained below:
Base 1 -- (range of points 1-1) has to be 1 because there is no "zero" rating -- scale goes from 1 to 10, thus if everything else is zero, you still have a 1, so this one must be added to the other values to get the proper rating.
challenge: (range of points 0-3) 0 -- does not meet challenge; 1 -- the title is necessary to support understanding how the challenge is met; 2 -- the title points out how the photo matches the challenge, but once spotted, stands on it's own; 3 -- challenge topic is obvious in the photo without the need of even reading the title. Thus, a rating of 1/3 means you got 1 out of the possible 3 points.
technical: (range of points 0-3) This is kind of an inverse scale, 3 means no technical issues whatsoever; 2 -- one noticeable flaw, 1 -- two noticeable flaws or 1 major flaw; 0 - 3 flaws or 2 major flaws -- or more.
aesthetics: (range of points 0-3) 3 -- I'd like a framed print of this one to hang; 2 -- I'd use this shot as a screen background or screen saver photo; 1 -- I'd share this photo with someone if the topic warranted; 0 -- not worth sharing.
total: (range of points 1-10) This is just the sum of the above values and the photos rating.
This of course, is just my amateur opinion and in the greater scheme of things, doesn't really count for squat. I do hope I've explained my rating system though, and maybe you better understand why I gave you the rating I did. |
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10/02/2003 12:59:53 AM · #11 |
| That all being said, I'll probably change my scale in the next challenge vote. It will be some modification of this scale, but it will be different. I'm just refining the process. I'm not overly happy that a photo that is technically and aesthetically perfect, but totally misses the challenge can get a 7 in my current scheme. Somehow that doesn't seem right -- the challenge should have more weight. I'm not quite sure how I'm going to approach it yet, but hopefully by next Tuesday, I'll have it figured out. |
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10/02/2003 01:03:02 AM · #12 |
Keep me informed, please:)
You seem like a real fart smeller... errr smart feller |
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10/02/2003 01:59:12 AM · #13 |
| Well I'll forgive you cause you've given plenty of good advice in the past ;) |
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10/02/2003 03:37:24 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by Kali:
I got a comment on my "Irony" pic today...
"base 1: 1/1; challenge: 2/3; technical: 3/3; aesthetics: 2/3; total: 8"
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Yet another poet on DPC !
I also got this type of blunt comment yesterday or rather "grading justifiation". It helped me confirm what I suspected: Not many voters or challengers took the time to check out the meaning of "irony".
Message edited by author 2003-10-02 03:38:08. |
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10/02/2003 03:58:03 AM · #15 |
| I've never been a fan of these types of comments. They always leave more questions than answers and are rarely useful in any way. I would personally rather not get any comment than one with just numbers. The way I prefer to go about commenting is to write a few comments which are full of as much detail and help as I can muster. I'd rather be very helpful to a few rather than not helpful at all to everybody. Just my opinion though! |
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10/02/2003 04:50:28 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
I've never been a fan of these types of comments. They always leave more questions than answers and are rarely useful in any way. I would personally rather not get any comment than one with just numbers. The way I prefer to go about commenting is to write a few comments which are full of as much detail and help as I can muster. I'd rather be very helpful to a few rather than not helpful at all to everybody. Just my opinion though! |
That is clearly your opinion though and not everyone's -- just as my rating and commenting in "my way" is mine. I've gotten more positive comments on my rating/comments than unfavorable ones though, so it must work for some people. Also, it gave some people I rated fairly low the opportunity to pitch their case as to why I missed the mark in understanding their interpretation of irony. I was able to go back and look at those photos and see why I voted the way I did -- or adjust it. In one case I totally missed the mark (in my opinion) and I changed a 2 to a 6 -- a pretty good swing. Without my "not helpful at all to everybody" comment, the author would have been left with a 2 rating and no way to question why he/she got it and no opportunity to make their case for a better rating. Of course, that's not to say everyone who comments/complains/whatever will get a higher rating -- they'll just get a second look. The rating may go down, up, or stay the same.
On a few of the photos I also gave a few words besides my now famous one liner, but everyone at least got the one liner, and a vehicle to argue my rating of their picture with me. How can that be bad? |
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10/02/2003 05:00:25 AM · #17 |
| Maybe there should be another a checkbox available when submitting: the "no comments please" checkbox means you don't want any comments during the voting process. Sure, comments form some useless currency, but when you're submitting a photo that's "on the edge", the comments are predictable. |
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10/02/2003 05:08:43 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by jjbeguin:
I also got this type of blunt comment yesterday or rather "grading justification". It helped me confirm what I suspected: Not many voters or challengers took the time to check out the meaning of "irony". |
I believe I understand the meaning of irony, but I just don't see it represented in some of the photos in this week's challenge. I looked through the history here and found that I've rated your pictures anywhere from a 1 to a 9 (no 10's that I noticed, but I wasn't exhaustive in my search), but for whatever reason, only commented once. Wouldn't you have liked to have at least some clue as to why I gave one of your pictures a 1, and another a 9? Surely a little information showing why I rated it as I did would have been helpful -- don't you think? At least it would have given you a link to click and then say, "Hey dude -- you rated my photo 'xxx' a 3, but I think..."
If anyone takes the time to actually ask, I'll answer. Realize of course, this is all just one schmo's opinion. There are a few hundred voters out there who don't leave any comment whatsoever. Who's really your buddy? |
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10/02/2003 08:59:04 AM · #19 |
hgpayne - I for one like your idea of voting system. My first voting experience has been the 'irony' challenge and I found it quite...challenging (for want of a better word).
I kind of used a loose variant of your system in my head - but then combined it with bobster lobsters opinion of providing detailed comments on a few, rather than one liners on all.
I think I'll have to work on this, and come up with some combination of both thoughts, I feel both are valid and useful.
I think I'd find that kind of one line critique helpful and would appriciate the fact that I'd know it'd be thought about.However if I scored low in one (or more) areas then I'd want to know your suggestions for improval I guess.
Having said that I can also see how difficult it is to have the time to put yourself into every submission... |
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