Like him or hate him, Clinton is the Master

09/26/2006 02:58:53 PM · #51

Originally posted by Nikonian Ninja:

i know the amount of wrong information that is published in order to line up with their agendas. Including info about Iraq and the rest of the war, along with plenty other things.

I'm curious, what do you think the left wing agenda is?

I'll tell you what I think The right wing agenda is: to keep the powerful in power and to keep the rich rich at the expense of everyone else. This is a completely believable motivation and has been borne out by millenia of history. What is the left wing agenda?

09/26/2006 03:12:07 PM · #52

first of all, most media is owned and run by groups of stockholders. Not just one person. They do what the stockholders say.

Next, one of the left wing agendas, is take from the rich and give to the poor. Now, mind you, I know there are people that are truly in need of help financially in life, and I don't have a problem helping those people. I DO have a problem with the whole welfare mentality. Something for nothing. Live off the system. The mindset that its the governments responsibility to take care of the people. Look at any nation in the world where the government has all the power and you will find poverty. The whole socialist mindset that wealth should be distributed equally is absolutely ridiculous. Show me ONE wealthy, thriving socialist economy out there. Can you? No because it doesn't work. Alot of the left wing mentality is socialistic. The more the people depend on government, the more power the government has, the more poverty there will be.

cpanaioti

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

09/26/2006 03:17:17 PM · #53

Originally posted by shamrock:

Then we better stop voting for anyone, because i'd be willing to lay money on the fact that 90% of all politicians have lied, cheated, or otherwise shown "poor moral values". Just because you don't get caught doesn't make the act go away.

That low, huh? ;o)

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

09/26/2006 03:19:31 PM · #54

Originally posted by posthumous:

The right wing agenda is: to keep the powerful in power and to keep the rich rich at the expense of everyone else.

Originally posted by Nikonian Ninja:

Next, one of the left wing agendas, is take from the rich and give to the poor.

I hope Conservative Christians are listening.

shamrock

Nikon D300

09/26/2006 03:22:45 PM · #55

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by shamrock:
Then we better stop voting for anyone, because i'd be willing to lay money on the fact that 90% of all politicians have lied, cheated, or otherwise shown "poor moral values". Just because you don't get caught doesn't make the act go away.

That low, huh? ;o)

I'm a conservative bettor :)

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

09/26/2006 03:27:15 PM · #56

Originally posted by posthumous:

What is the left wing agenda?

Good question.

09/26/2006 03:27:40 PM · #57

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by posthumous:
The right wing agenda is: to keep the powerful in power and to keep the rich rich at the expense of everyone else.

Originally posted by Nikonian Ninja:
Next, one of the left wing agendas, is take from the rich and give to the poor.

I hope Conservative Christians are listening.

you obviously took my statement out of context, thank you very much. Would you like for me to clarify for you?

09/26/2006 03:30:21 PM · #58

Originally posted by Nikonian Ninja:

first of all, most media is owned and run by groups of stockholders. Not just one person. They do what the stockholders say.

Ah, so Disney is run by a bunch of hippie stockholders. And so is Ruppert Murdoch. Your argument has no legs to stand on. The only "left wing" bias in the news are a few remnants of journalistic principles, which in turn are part of a tradition from our founding fathers in which the press has not only the freedom but also an obligation to investigate the truth behind what the government does. You might find this horrifying, but it is this sort of "left wing bias" that makes me proud to be an American, and not any sort of innate righteousness. But journalism has largely eroded into pandering to corporate and governmental agendas. Democracy requires vigilance, and most Americans are asleep. I can barely keep my eyes open myself.

09/26/2006 03:34:40 PM · #59

so what are your thoughts about the left wing agendas I mentioned?

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

09/26/2006 03:44:48 PM · #60

Originally posted by Nikonian Ninja:

so what are your thoughts about the left wing agendas I mentioned?

I have a certain affection for logic. I can't help myself, really. Observation tells me that there are two "sides," the "left" and the "right." Each side has considerable resources and can generate lots of juicy facts that look very convincing. Therefore, I want to know the motivations behind generating those facts. If the motivations are good, not self-serving, then there is a better chance that the facts are relevant and not misleading. (Of course, it's possible that both sides are wrong, but there is no reason for me to assume that the truth is exactly midway between them.)

So we have the right's motivation, clear as day: keep the rich rich and the powerful powerful.

Now, you say the left's motivations are to "take from the rich and give to the poor," "its the governments responsibility to take care of the people," and "wealth should be distributed equally."

Now take off your ideological blinders for a moment and tell me which motivation is more likely to lie, cheat and steal to get its way? Which motivation is going to have more resources with which to lie, cheat and steal?

Those are my thoughts.

srdanz

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

09/26/2006 03:59:27 PM · #61

Did anyone watch the video? It was interesting, to say the least. As DrAchoo aptly put it in the thread title, he is the master.

And regarding the off-topic subtopic, why are some of you so stuck up for the rights of the 5% of the wealthiest? You are defending the right to entrepreneurship? Comparing that to socialism and claiming it is better (the way it works now)?

Well, if 5% is wealthy, that is hardly a comparison worth making. In soc-dem countries, there isn't a 5% layer of wealth, but the bottom 50% is taken care of, healthcare and otherwise. Here, 5% rocks, and the bottom 50% is struggling to find healthcare for their unemployed young children.

And those are non-totalitarian governments, like Sweden etc.

You claim that people in such countries pay lots of taxes. But- their taxes come back to people. Where do our (federal) taxes go? To healthcare? No. To retirement and care of elderly? No. To schools? Very little - most local taxes do that.
Oh, yess... they go to KBR, Halliburton, etc. and they waste it in billions a year.

And for all of you left-wingers, if we are not going towards social justice, we are at least going towards the totalitarian side of those unmentioned totalitarian governments, where we define what is rough and what is not. Welcome to the water boarding age. Since all of you left-wingers are evil, this may appease you.

09/26/2006 04:08:40 PM · #62

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by Nikonian Ninja:
so what are your thoughts about the left wing agendas I mentioned?

I have a certain affection for logic. I can't help myself, really. Observation tells me that there are two "sides," the "left" and the "right." Each side has considerable resources and can generate lots of juicy facts that look very convincing. Therefore, I want to know the motivations behind generating those facts. If the motivations are good, not self-serving, then there is a better chance that the facts are relevant and not misleading. (Of course, it's possible that both sides are wrong, but there is no reason for me to assume that the truth is exactly midway between them.)

So we have the right's motivation, clear as day: keep the rich rich and the powerful powerful.

Now, you say the left's motivations are to "take from the rich and give to the poor," "its the governments responsibility to take care of the people," and "wealth should be distributed equally."

Now take off your ideological blinders for a moment and tell me which motivation is more likely to lie, cheat and steal to get its way? Which motivation is going to have more resources with which to lie, cheat and steal?

Those are my thoughts.

First of all, I don't agree with your thoughts on the right's motivation. Our motivation is to keep the system open for those who WANT to become rich and keep the incentives there. More wealth means more jobs (for those that only want to work a job), and more money being spent to stimulate the economy (which creates more jobs as well).

Second, I dont see how lying, cheating or stealing would play a part in this discussion. I'm sure it happens on both sides. The question I had was, do you feel those comments I made about the left are accurate in your opinion?

09/26/2006 04:20:57 PM · #63

Originally posted by Nikonian Ninja:

You're giving me *your* motivation. I'm giving you the motivation of those who are running the right. You can choose not to believe that, and ignore history and human nature. That's your decision.

Originally posted by Nikonian Ninja:

Second, I dont see how lying, cheating or stealing would play a part in this discussion. I'm sure it happens on both sides. The question I had was, do you feel those comments I made about the left are accurate in your opinion?

Your comments about the motivations are fairly accurate, and I was surprised to see you admitting so much good will to them. Your explanations for why they don't work are lacking. The only governments that have ever come close to running efficiently and showing respect for human rights are governments that combine socialism with a free market. Neither system has worked on its own, or shown even a glimmer of hope to work on its own. This fact is much more complicated than simply embracing an ideology, but it has the unfortunate advantage of being true.

09/26/2006 04:21:08 PM · #64

got to go for now. Can carry on with you all tomorrow. This has been a rather enjoyable discussion btw.

09/26/2006 04:33:09 PM · #65

Originally posted by Nikonian Ninja:

got to go for now. Can carry on with you all tomorrow. This has been a rather enjoyable discussion btw.

For me, too. I'm not in that many forums, and this is my only chance to see the conservative point of view. I know all their talking points, but I still wonder about things, like why they dread liberalism so much. And I'm sure that there are conservatives who no longer feel the need to defend Bush (who is neocon straight up with a twist of moron), but they don't seem to be on this website! ;)

And btw, I don't feel the need to defend Clinton. I've been pissed at him ever since he fired Joycelyn Elders for talking about masturbation. f*&$%ing hypocrite. The irony of conservative hatred for Clinton is that he was more responsible than anyone for the rightward trend of the Democratic Party, which is only now getting a backlash (bye-bye, Lieberman).

vtruan

Nikon D5100