Why I hate 9-11 - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

09/11/2006 03:31:04 PM · #26

Originally posted by metatate:

LARGELY IGNORED!!!! ?????
Holier than thou are we?
Just tell me -- 'this forum wasn't written right' -- well i think we all hate the fact that those people perished and on of my points was that this very day is used politically instead of honoring those people.

Originally posted by LoudDog:
I hate 9/11 because nearly 3,000 people died.

Mainly because we humans tend not to debate that which we tend to agree on. Very few debate that an orange is an orange.

Apple iPhone 5

09/11/2006 03:32:37 PM · #27

Originally posted by theSaj:

So maybe my world view point is a little skewed.

Agreed.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

09/11/2006 03:46:36 PM · #28

Originally posted by theSaj:

So let me get this straight. You stated ignored evidence of memos. As I recall, the only memos were regarding the possibility of a potential airline hijacking plot for which the FAA alerted airlines. Now, this sounds perhaps damning but these sort of alerts occur with a fair frequency.

ah, they're *frequent*, too? and still ignored. interesting defense.

Originally posted by theSaj:

And then you go on to state that this is a personal conclusion (opinion) of yours. Hence, your decision is self-proclaimed opinion not fact. Followed by condemnation of those who have differing view points.

I condemn only the fans of the Bush administration, and even then I only condemn certain reasoning skills, not the people themselves.

Originally posted by "theSaj":

Now what sort of action do you suggest the President should have taken. I really would like a liberal to answer me this question just once. Instead of throwing muck....why not tell us what should have been done?

Hey man, I didn't run for President. I'm no good at stuff like this. But have you seen a timeline for the events of 9/11? It was a travesty. If you draw a different conclusion, that's your business. Oh, and one thing I would have done was say "excuse me, kids, I have to see to some important business," and I would have left the classroom and at least tried to find out what was going on.

Originally posted by "theSaj":

I mean, I recall what happened when President Bush's administration requested France ground two planes with suspects they were following. The liberal organizations in the U.S. were in an uproar. How could the President take such a restrictive action, blah, blah, blah.... and that was post 9-11. So yes, I am really waiting for a member of the "Left" to tell me just what the !@#$% should have been done.

Oh yeah, because this administration is always listening to liberal advice. That must have been the cause of 9/11! Those damned liberals.

Originally posted by "theSaj":

Perhaps the jet fighters took too long to take off, oh my...maybe President Bush having been a National Guard pilot should have gone and flown the fighter himself.

um... hello... he couldn't even find his plane when he was in the National Guard.

Originally posted by "theSaj":

Oh, the order to shoot the planes took too long. Yeah, I mean, like they NEW the planes were going to be used as missiles. Let's say hypothetically speaking that President Bush did receive a clearer warning of intent and had ordered the airliners shot down before they hit anything. Like "you" (used in general) on the left wouldn't be decrying such actions had they occurred as having been extreme use of force and how we should have negotiated as the standard plans dictated at the time.

So you're saying Bush provides none of the compassion of liberalism, just the weakness and inaction of liberalism? I'll agree with you there.

Originally posted by "theSaj":

Have we been hit yet since? No....

and how often were we hit BEFORE 9/11? Oklahoma doesn't count. Neither does Waco.

Originally posted by "theSaj":

Not saying we're safe. I know we can't be safe. All it takes is a small sailboat to come from West Africa into New York Harbor and *BOOM*. Please tell me what the government can do about that. We can't stop every little tiny boat that enters. And even though foriegn ships often have to wait and be inspected, that's upon entrance into a harbor or port. You don't need to get to that point for a nuke.

Well, I recommend a strategy that might seem odd at first. Stop p155ing off the rest of the world. Stop invading countries that pose no direct threat to us. I know that seems weak (see weakness of liberalism above) but it's based on the teachings of a strange man who was killed for his strange beliefs, Jesus Christ. The president claims to be familiar with him, but has yet to try any of his tactics.

Originally posted by "theSaj":

So please....tell me what we should do. Especially, as the ones most critical seem to also be the ones most against a locking down our borders. So please....what would you do?

What would Jesus do?

Message edited by author 2006-09-11 15:47:14.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

09/11/2006 03:47:16 PM · #29

Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by theSaj:
So maybe my world view point is a little skewed.

Agreed.

Yeah...well, when you can prove to me something else that works. I'll quit thinking you're off your rocker too!

*shrug*

Apple iPhone 5

09/11/2006 03:49:06 PM · #30

I ask this question every year; why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been captured yet?

If the 100,000 soldiers sent into Iraq had instead been sent into the area where he is suspected to be hiding, they could have searched under every stone and in every cave about 10 times by now.

He's an old man with kidney problems and a walking stick sitting on a mountain. And the combined forces of the US army and their 'allies' can't find him?

Osama and his sidekicks continue to release audio tapes and videos, they continue to organise and plot their strategy, and they continue to motivate and recruit new fighters.

Do they not matter anymore? Or is chasing the Taliban through the poppy fields of Southern Afghanistan more important?

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

09/11/2006 03:52:32 PM · #31

Originally posted by metatate:

...was that this very day is used politically instead of honoring those people.

For example - this thread.

Prof_Fate

09/11/2006 04:21:27 PM · #32

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by "theSaj":
Have we been hit yet since? No....

and how often were we hit BEFORE 9/11? Oklahoma doesn't count. Neither does Waco.

Exactly, but there have been many alerts, warnings and intelligence. When (and if) we get hit again there will be many, like you, playing monday morning quarterback stating how obvious it was, how everyone knew it was going to happen, etc, and why didn't someone stop it before it happend?

tell ya what - a US soldier is going to get killed today. I can even tell you what country and, a general description of the killer and a good guess as to the method - and you nor anyone can stop it. So how on earth can a more general warning with less specifics covering a larger geographical area and with no specific time possible be stopped?

Originally posted by posthumous:

What would Jesus do?

Jesus, or God? Aren't they the same? Whose side is God on anyway? We say ours, they say theirs, and we all believe in ther ebeing only one God - so somebody's wrong. It's always been this way throughout the centuries, often christian against christian and both claim a divine right to win.

God might smote folks, but he doesn't take sides, doesn't condone war or genocide, etc. Well, that's what I was taught in school and I hear on Sundays.

Personal observation has taught me something else - I'm coming to belive that religious belief is a mental illness - the more devout a person or group the crazier they become! Karesh and Waco, Jim Jones and Guyana, and these suicide bombers for Islam/Allah.

What Should Jesus do? Seek psychiatric help before it's too late - I bet he's suffering from a messiah complex and doesn't even know it ;P

Message edited by author 2006-09-11 16:22:31.

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

09/11/2006 04:24:46 PM · #33

Originally posted by metatate:

LARGELY IGNORED!!!! ?????
Holier than thou are we?

No, but do I have to be holier than thou to express my opinion/observation?

Originally posted by metatate:

Just tell me -- 'this forum wasn't written right' -- well i think we all hate the fact that those people perished and on of my points was that this very day is used politically instead of honoring those people.

Well, this thread is also not about honoring those people by the way. However, the point you made about this day being used politically I agree with hence my comments about the actual deaths and the families affected are largely ignored.

Sad and troubling as it may be not all people hate the fact those people died. We have plenty of people in the U.S. who thought they and to a larger extent, the country deserved what they got on 9/11. This being the internet I don't assume anything about people I don't know.

Message edited by author 2006-09-11 16:25:27.

Stagolee

Kodak Easyshare C180

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

09/11/2006 04:32:17 PM · #34

Originally posted by jhonan:

Why would they want to catch him? He doesn't come with any oil but Iraq does.

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

09/11/2006 04:53:25 PM · #35

Originally posted by posthumous:

and how often were we hit BEFORE 9/11? Oklahoma doesn't count. Neither does Waco.

I'll only go back to 1984 so as not to make this post too long:

1984
Sept. 20, east Beirut, Lebanon: truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. embassy annex, killing 24, including 2 U.S. military.
Dec. 3, Beirut, Lebanon: Kuwait Airways Flight 221, from Kuwait to Pakistan, hijacked and diverted to Tehran. 2 Americans killed.
1985
April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82.
June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.
Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya.
Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya.
1986
April 2, Athens, Greece:A bomb exploded aboard TWA flight 840 en route from Rome to Athens, killing 4 Americans and injuring 9.
April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds.
1988
Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later (Aug. 2003) and offered $2.7 billion compensation to victims' families.
1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.
1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.
1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.
2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.

09/11/2006 05:10:13 PM · #36

Originally posted by posthumous:

ah, they're *frequent*, too? and still ignored. interesting defense.

a) they were not ignored, FAA was notified, airlines were notified. The policy had always been to "discuss and understand" the terrorists and endeavor to get the people released safely. This turned out not to be applicable on 9-11. As I've mentioned these are NOT individuals interested in "discussion and understanding".

b) yup...perhaps frequent is a poor word. As I am not implying daily or frequent flyer miles here. But such alerts and memos were not unheard of. In fact, in a given year their are probably hundreds of alert memos from our intelligence agency.

In fact...

" A secret intelligence document prepared for President Bill Clinton in December 1998 reported on a suspected plot by Osama bin Laden to hijack a U.S. airliner in an effort to force the United States to release imprisoned conspirators in the 1993 World Trade Center attacks." //foi.missouri.edu/terrorintelligence/1998memo.html

And such memos were circling about pre-9/11 that is what most expected it to be. A hijacking attempt to free imprisoned compatriots.

So what is the frequency...well, the information regarding the prior memo was delivered in a PDB (President's Daily Briefing).

Just a tidbit... "Though the CIA and other government agencies were clearly aware of the hijack threat, and though the Federal Aviation Administration distributed a circular referring to it in the summer of 2001"

Other related reports expressed that there might rather be an attempt to shoot down U.S. military or civilian aircraft. Getting one lone memo in a daily summary briefing going back to 1998 which was uncorraborated. And that was supposed to be the answer? I mean, dear me, what should the Administration have done. Why...all flights should have been grounded since 1998. Perhaps if such was as important as General Clark tried to make it then the outgoing administration would have made some mention of it in the intelligence debriefing.

Originally posted by posthumous:

I condemn only the fans of the Bush administration, and even then I only condemn certain reasoning skills, not the people themselves.

Yes, yes....I forgot. There is always so much talk against "dividing this country" from the Left. I think it's funny how the left is so one-sided about such thing. *shrug*

Originally posted by posthumous:

Hey man, I didn't run for President. I'm no good at stuff like this. But have you seen a timeline for the events of 9/11?

Yes, I've seen quite a few. Some that are way off in accuracy and some that are not. I also remember that day. It all happened very quickly. I remember coming into work and hearing about a plane hitting the WTC. Actually, the first report I heard was a Cessna or such and the building was smoking. Then a few minutes later I found out it was an airliner and a few minutes after, that a second one had hit the other tower. That's when we knew we were under attack.

Did you expect the air force to just shoot down every plane? How long do you think it took to check the crowdy skies over New York, Washington, & Philadelphia areas to determine what planes were not on correct courses. Which ones were on approved adjusted courses and which ones were not on proper course at all? How long do you think it took to try to establish contact with all said planes and verify the situation. Mind you, as flights were being ordered to land all across the country. Most air towers had more work than any day of their lives.

Originally posted by posthumous:

Oh, and one thing I would have done was say "excuse me, kids, I have to see to some important business," and I would have left the classroom and at least tried to find out what was going on.

I forget if that event was being recorded live. But usually this is how it works when a crisis occurs.

a) evaluate if President is in immediate danger, if so, remove to safety where command and control can be maintained. As the case, the President was not in immediate danger.

b) Unknown situation, was it an accident? there was not much information at the time...the President not only makes decisions but must maintain a semblance of calm. The report was given to the President. At which time he still remained in the clas. It was likely that the report given simply was "An airline has hit one of the World Trade Centers...we don't have much more information that that...will keep you appraised Sir as soon as we know more."

Followed by the second report in which it was clear a "deliberate event" was going on...in which he excused himself. Do you not think his staff was already reacting? These are professionals.

In fact, they may have informed him that they will be leaving shortly and the President's transportation was on the way. I mean, really...say he bolted upright immediately and ran out. a) children panic, b) if being televised the viewer's go into hysteria. And the result? He finds himself in an unsecured school hallway waiting for his ride. It's very likely that time in between was the Secret Service securing the area.

Have you ever worked with the Secret Service for Presidential on security? I actually have...as a Cadet at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy when President Clinton's wife and daughter were visiting. We assisted in escorting the Presidential family, press, etc. There was a lot of procedure and this was on a military base which would be deemed a most minimal of threats.

Originally posted by posthumous:

Hey man, I didn't run for President. I'm no good at stuff like this.

Just good enough at throwing every accusation and finding every seeming failure. Even while having no clue about what you're talking about or condemning most of the time. So while people like "you" condemn the President's short delay at the elementary school. You have no idea of the procedures that were being implemented and prepared at that time. You just assume it was dereliction of duty. When in fact, it may have been quite the opposite.

Originally posted by posthumous:

and I would have left the classroom and at least tried to find out what was going on.

You don't think his staff was doing that for him? And you don't think they came back to him as soon as they had anything?

Originally posted by posthumous:

and how often were we hit BEFORE 9/11? Oklahoma doesn't count. Neither does Waco.

Quite a few times officially.
993 attack on the WTC? The 1996 bombing of the Khobar Towers? The 1998 bombings of the U.S. Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya? The 2000 attack on the U.S.S. Cole?

Just to list the official ones.

THE THING I MOST LIKE ABOUT YOU POSTHUMOUS IS YOUR ABILITY TO NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTION PUT TO YOU. IT'S EXACTLY WHAT I LOVE ABOUT SO MANY LIBERALS. THEY DEMAND ANSWERS AND SELDOM PROVIDE ANY.

Prof_Fate

09/11/2006 05:10:32 PM · #37

Originally posted by LoudDog:

Originally posted by posthumous:
and how often were we hit BEFORE 9/11? Oklahoma doesn't count. Neither does Waco.

I'll only go back to 1984 so as not to make this post too long:

Only once on US soil, tons of times elsewhere of course. And we the general public have no clue on the qualtiy and quantity of intel on any of those acts.

So knowing what we know, we can predict with 100% certainty that a US embassy will be bombed in the forseeable future, probably by Al Quaeda.

So to follow your logic, since we know that, we can stop it and it won't happen, right? Not likely. No sense beating a dead horse - we know it happended, and will happen again, and while we can stop some of it (the english plane bit - oh, that wasn't us that stopped it!) we can't stop it all.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

09/11/2006 05:15:40 PM · #38

"I ask this question every year; why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been captured yet?"

Because we can't send our forces into Pakistan and Pakistan has too much internal issues to be a strong and determined ally against Osama.

"If the 100,000 soldiers sent into Iraq had instead been sent into the area where he is suspected to be hiding, they could have searched under every stone and in every cave about 10 times by now.
"

Yes, but jhonan, do you really want to start a war with the nation of Pakistan?

Originally posted by "yanko":

We have plenty of people in the U.S. who thought they and to a larger extent, the country deserved what they got on 9/11.

Yup...and there are a large number of such people living in Deerborne, Michigan. The same ones who were marching and shouting "We have no army but Hezbolleh!"...yeah, I've got accusations for this Administration. Why are you acting on securing our borders and damn the politics and the votes.

Stagolee

Kodak Easyshare C180

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

09/11/2006 05:25:39 PM · #39

Originally posted by theSaj:

Yes, but jhonan, do you really want to start a war with the nation of Pakistan?

What is the difference between starting a war in Pakistan or Iraq. At least with Pakistan the terrorist that you are hunting is hiding in that country.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

09/11/2006 05:27:54 PM · #40

Originally posted by theSaj:

... And the result? He finds himself in an unsecured school hallway waiting for his ride. It's very likely that time in between was the Secret Service securing the area.

Notwitstanding your experiences in providing security for the President and his family as a "Cadet"... I can assure you that there is no way in Hell that the President of the USA is ever allowed within any "Unsecured Area".

How do I know you ask, PM me and I will gladly tell you.

Ray

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS II USM Lens

09/11/2006 05:31:16 PM · #41

Regardless of your politics and ideology, this free doc video is a "must see".
//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5946593973848835726

bcoble

Olympus E-300 EVOLT

Olympus 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 Zuiko Digital ED

09/11/2006 05:37:52 PM · #42

Is the world safer? Just imagine Sadam still in power, Osama would be in hiding in Iraq. Iran is still doing what they are doing, and all the left wing would be asking for the United Nations for help.
Or perhaps the terrorist would just leave us alone.
Lets just ignore the rest of the world and let things fall where they may. There would be no Israel, Iraq and Iran most likeley would be fighting, the drug cartel in Afganistan would have control there, France would like us and maybe even Spain. Everyone would like us!
Just let them fight there own battles and let the strong dominate the weak. United Nations can handle all issues overthere. All those countries listens to the recommendations of the UN anyway.

We should stick our heads in the sand, and hope everything will turn out ok.

09/11/2006 05:38:14 PM · #43

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by "theSaj":
Have we been hit yet since? No....

and how often were we hit BEFORE 9/11? Oklahoma doesn't count. Neither does Waco.

The USS Cole was attacked in October of 2000

The WTC was bombed in 1993.

Our Embassy in Beirut was bombed in April 1983

The Marine Barracks in Beirut was bombed in October 1983

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

09/11/2006 05:41:00 PM · #44

Originally posted by LoudDog:

Originally posted by posthumous:
and how often were we hit BEFORE 9/11? Oklahoma doesn't count. Neither does Waco.

I'll only go back to 1984 so as not to make this post too long:

1984
Sept. 20, east Beirut, Lebanon: truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. embassy annex, killing 24, including 2 U.S. military.
Dec. 3, Beirut, Lebanon: Kuwait Airways Flight 221, from Kuwait to Pakistan, hijacked and diverted to Tehran. 2 Americans killed.
1985
April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82.
June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.
Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya.
Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya.
1986
April 2, Athens, Greece:A bomb exploded aboard TWA flight 840 en route from Rome to Athens, killing 4 Americans and injuring 9.
April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds.
1988
Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later (Aug. 2003) and offered $2.7 billion compensation to victims' families.
1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.
1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.
1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.
2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.

I missed a few.

Stagolee

Kodak Easyshare C180

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

09/11/2006 05:44:07 PM · #45

Originally posted by "theSaj":

Have we been hit yet since? No....

No but your allies took a hit in Spain, London and Bali. All in the name of the war on terrorism.

Also how many US soldiers have been killed by insurgents (terrorist) since 9/11

Prof_Fate

09/11/2006 05:44:27 PM · #46

Originally posted by bcoble:

We should stick our heads in the sand, and hope everything will turn out ok.

No of course not, but being the biggest dog on the block does not give us the right to kick around all the little dogs. They barked at us before and now, but now they bark for a reason and all the other quiet dogs are starting to bark. You can't beat a dog and then offer food and have a happy, loving well behaved dog.

Apple iPhone 5

09/11/2006 05:57:39 PM · #47

Originally posted by theSaj:

Yes, but jhonan, do you really want to start a war with the nation of Pakistan?

What happened to the 'If you're not with us, you're against us' doctrine?

Pakistan have their own problems with the tribes around Waziristan. Musharraf didn't think twice before hunting down and killing the people who tried to assassinate him. I can't see why he'd have a problem with 100,000 coalition forces in Waziristan. He's sent enough of his own army in there in recent months.

I seriously doubt Pakistan is the real obstacle to catching Osama. He is more valuable to the US administration as long as he's on the run. He gives the 'war on terror' some kind of focal point. He's the bogey man, the reason for the 'Orange Alerts', the reason for the climate of fear.

Lock him up in Guantanamo and more people will start doubting the continued 'war on terror'

bcoble

Olympus E-300 EVOLT

Olympus 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 Zuiko Digital ED

09/11/2006 05:58:39 PM · #48

I love dogs, but if the dog was trained to attack and kill then the only solution is to put the dog to sleep. The method is the only thing that needs to be decided apond. Retraining is out of the question. Perhaps isolation is a answer? A mean and vicious dog will turn on you any time without provocation.

09/11/2006 06:05:50 PM · #49

Originally posted by jhonan:

Pakistan have their own problems with the tribes around Waziristan. Musharraf didn't think twice before hunting down and killing the people who tried to assassinate him. I can't see why he'd have a problem with 100,000 coalition forces in Waziristan. He's sent enough of his own army in there in recent months.

Musharraf can't afford to let US troops run around in Pakistan, because although he is, in essence, a dictator, he does need support from the Islamists to stay in power. He's walking a thin line between supporting the US in the war on terror (to maintain the steady stream of foreign aid among other things) and keeping the Islamists in Pakistan happy by maintaining independence from the Western Infidels. Openly allowing US troops to operate in Pakistan would definitely cross that line and should that happen, I would expect a coup to follow shortly in which Musharraf would be replaced by someone significantly less interested in helping the US.

Message edited by author 2006-09-11 18:06:54.