| Author | Thread |
|
|
09/06/2006 11:28:06 PM · #1 |
So, I've never really been one to complain particularly about comments. I rather fancy myself as being tempered and take criticism, both good and bad, in stride.
I appreciate short comments, long comments, in fact, comments in all shapes and sizes. Once, I had pic a that a voter made a racist comment about & had the opportunity by the admins to have it removed. I asked that it be kept there because it was a reaction to my work whether I agreed with it or not.
I haven't been as active here at DPC for a while. In fact, last year I entered only 2 or 3 challenges, if I remember correctly. Regardless, it remains as my home page & I visit this site religiously every day. I vote & leave comments as often as I can & lately it has't been that often. I have & do, however, always check out the results and read comments left on pictures that appeal to me.
Lately, I have noticed that some comments seem to me to be fishing for a reason to vote low. Now, I know I have no way of knowing how the voter voted but I feel somewhat disturbed by this.
I am currently receiving votes for 2 of the running challenges and it strikes me that some comments seem to be myopically looking for a reason to vote low.
Folks here that know me & my activity on DPC, know that I have been uncompromising in my choice of shots & have always been really proud of my work regardless of how it ranks in the challenge results. I enter to challenge myself to create a picture that fits the challenge as I see it.
I have learned a lot at DPC and have also taken many suggestions and critques of my fellow dpcers to adjust this craft I am working to be more skilled in.
I guess what I am trying to convey here is that I wonder how much there is to learn from commenters whose apparent motives are perceived as being self-serving in some way.
Am I alone in this? Out of touch from the current pulse of DPC? What say you my friends?
Message edited by author 2006-09-06 23:31:22.
|
|
|
|
09/06/2006 11:36:47 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by Rooster:
Lately, I have noticed that some comments seem to me to be fishing for a reason to vote low. Now, I know I have no way of knowing how the voter voted but I feel somewhat disturbed by this. |
I sometimes leave a negative comment criticizing this and that, but voted a fairly high vote on that same photo - the reason being me trying to explain what I disliked and hoped the photographer might wish to know why his/her photo didn't get a 10 from me, and instead got a 9 (example) |
|
|
|
09/06/2006 11:38:01 PM · #3 |
Yeah, "I like it" doesn't really seem to be a reason to vote high for most people. I look at the stuff in my portfolio that was scoring in the high fives and low sixes just a couple months ago and it's of a lesser quality than recent submissions that have been scoring in the four range. People are definitely voting a lot more harshly lately, and it makes improvement difficult to gauge.
Message edited by author 2006-09-06 23:55:49.
|
|
|
|
09/06/2006 11:41:07 PM · #4 |
I too may leave comments that point out more of what I thought could have been improved than what I liked, although I have been trying to keep things more well rounded. It doesnt mean I gave it a low score. It may be like crayon said - the things I poitned out may have been what kept the image from getting a ten is all, and instead got a nine.
|
|
|
|
09/06/2006 11:49:40 PM · #5 |
I have no way of knowing what type of comments you are receiving, but have you considered that perhaps you might be misinterpreting the intents of those leaving the comments.
It could very well be that the authors of such comments do not harbour nefarious intents, but rather are striving to bring a slight deficiency to the forefront, and that by doing so they are doing you a favour.
As with all things in life, this also can be viewed from a different perspective.
Ray |
|
|
|
09/07/2006 12:02:55 AM · #6 |
Just some thoughts: a) 2 of the current challenge topics invite myopia (are not wide open to interpretation), and, b) remember - voters are encouraged to leave a comment when voting 3 or below. People will often do this grudgingly, IF they do it at all. That may account for some of the attitude you perceive.
Hopefully, what you are experiencing is just an unfortunate constellation of circumstances and not a dpc landslide into a persnickety level of hell ;-) |
|
|
|
09/07/2006 12:05:19 AM · #7 |
Thank you for the comments so far. I have to say that I wonder more about the comments rather than being upset at it. The comments that I mostly refer to are not comments left on my own pictures but used myself as am example just to move my thought along.
Of course, you would be right in saying that there is, most probably, more or less behind a comment than I can possibly interpret but to clarify a tad, I am first not really feeling one way or the other about the comments but more wondering about them. The comments really don't point out much in terms of improvement or what someone might not like about it. It's difficult to describe exactly as I really don;t & won;t call anyone's comment out but am still curious to hear others reactions to the commenting & voting as of late.
Thanks again!
Edit: Both my shots are far ahead of my average so I hope folks can rad that this is not abitchfest of any kind but more of an inquiry into others perception against my own.
Message edited by author 2006-09-07 00:08:22.
|
|
|
|
09/07/2006 12:33:34 AM · #8 |
I haven't been here as long as you, but I haven't seen a change in commenting, with the exception of some photographers giving comments to all entries.
I looked at many comments in your profile and you didn't find some helpful. To me, those would be helpful and they do point out what they don't like. Why weren't they helpful?
What was their vote? Unless you refresh very frequently or it's near the end of a challenge, it may be just a guess. For others you would probably have no idea what somebody gave as a vote. I try to tell what I like, don't like, and what could be improved. Sometimes I don't hit all three, but that doesn't mean that I vote low if I offer a suggestion or say something I don't like about the picture.
|
|
|
|
09/07/2006 12:52:22 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
I haven't been here as long as you, but I haven't seen a change in commenting, with the exception of some photographers giving comments to all entries.
I looked at many comments in your profile and you didn't find some helpful. To me, those would be helpful and they do point out what they don't like. Why weren't they helpful?
What was their vote? Unless you refresh very frequently or it's near the end of a challenge, it may be just a guess. For others you would probably have no idea what somebody gave as a vote. I try to tell what I like, don't like, and what could be improved. Sometimes I don't hit all three, but that doesn't mean that I vote low if I offer a suggestion or say something I don't like about the picture. |
Hello! A las, I do indeed updae far too often, 'specially since I've entred a challenge after a long while. I find 99.9% of th comments made on my shots helpful in some way, be it to make me smile or angry.
I promis it ain't all about me. Just using myself as an eample bc I there's no one else.
I'm quite certain that the cast majority of folks & those posting here are honest & have all the best intentions.
:)
|
|
|
|
09/07/2006 12:56:59 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by Rooster:
I'm quite certain that the cast majority of folks & those posting here are honest & have all the best intentions.
:) |
I believe this true here, and in the real world also. But those people tend not to get the attention. |
|
|
|
09/07/2006 02:38:39 AM · #11 |
FWIW, I'm more likely to leave a constructively negative comment on a good photo with one or two flaws than I am on a bad photo with lots of flaws.
For me, it's easier to isolate a few flaws of a reasonably competent photograph than to diagnose why a photo is really crappy. LOL
Sooo, if you get a comment from me complaining about one or two things, it likely means that I enjoyed the photo and want to help you improve. And you likely got a fairly high vote.
|
|
|
|
09/07/2006 08:20:11 AM · #12 |
I'm pretty even handed when I leave my comments whether I find the image good or bad. If there's something I see that I'd personally do differently or might like to see different I'll say so. Whether this is helpful to the photographer or not is up to them. That said, I still haven't been able to get over my fear (for lack of better word) of saying exactly what I think about an image.
What I mean by this is when I open up the picture I have an immediate gut reaction, and many times its, "Boring". I wish I had the nerve to put that, but I always worry about people's feelings and instead labor over how to indicate I found it boring without actually saying so.
I need to work on being less verbose and more instinctive (tactless?) I think. I sometimes wonder if my softening of my reaction to the photo is "letting the photographer off the hook" in some way. Like I'm not giving enough emphasis to something I really think is lousy which may leave them thinking oh well its not that bad, when I'm wondering why they submitted.
Maybe others are dealing with a similar conflict.. or maybe they've resolved it and opted to be less circumspect and that could account for the difference in tone you've noticed?
I don't know.. its late and I just got off work so my brain is slightly scrambled.
:)
|
|
|
|
09/07/2006 08:38:48 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by Rooster:
Hello! A las, I do indeed updae far too often, le bc I there's no one else.
|
Best to disable that dreaded update button. ;) Let me know if you were successful. Then maybe I can do so. ;) I'm one of those voters that might throw your mathmatical deduction of scores WAY off. See, I go thru and vote for them all..... Then, I go back and add a point to as many as a dozen images depending on the size of the challenge. I suspect they'd all look like ones! Til rollover anyway.
|
|
|
|
09/07/2006 09:19:16 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by LucidLotus:
I'm pretty even handed when I leave my comments whether I find the image good or bad. If there's something I see that I'd personally do differently or might like to see different I'll say so. Whether this is helpful to the photographer or not is up to them. That said, I still haven't been able to get over my fear (for lack of better word) of saying exactly what I think about an image.
What I mean by this is when I open up the picture I have an immediate gut reaction, and many times its, "Boring". I wish I had the nerve to put that, but I always worry about people's feelings and instead labor over how to indicate I found it boring without actually saying so.
I need to work on being less verbose and more instinctive (tactless?) I think. I sometimes wonder if my softening of my reaction to the photo is "letting the photographer off the hook" in some way. Like I'm not giving enough emphasis to something I really think is lousy which may leave them thinking oh well its not that bad, when I'm wondering why they submitted.
Maybe others are dealing with a similar conflict.. or maybe they've resolved it and opted to be less circumspect and that could account for the difference in tone you've noticed?
I don't know.. its late and I just got off work so my brain is slightly scrambled.
:) |
I like what you've had to say regarding this. I was going to parse out a couple of pieces to respond to but I'm being lazy and will respond in general...
"gut reaction"..."instinctive" - those are both great indicators of how you feel about an image. Go with it and use them in your comments. Most voters look at an image for mere seconds so your response is valid and worth noting.
If you find an image "boring" say so. If you need to be tactful, say "I'm not finding much to hold my interest in this image.".
Overall I think people on this site are afraid to make comments if they are not all happy, feel good kind of things to say. No, you don't want to be rude - but be truthful. I would much rather have an honest comment, or a comment on how my image moved (or didn't) a viewer.
Is the concern of being honest and forthright in commenting the potential of receiving a PM from a semi-peeved photographer? So what? Don't worry about it.
Gut reactions, first impressions, instinctive response - those are the heart and soul of what your image does for a viewer. Let's hear it! ;^) |
|
|
|
09/07/2006 09:37:43 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Is the concern of being honest and forthright in commenting the potential of receiving a PM from a semi-peeved photographer? So what? Don't worry about it.
Gut reactions, first impressions, instinctive response - those are the heart and soul of what your image does for a viewer. Let's hear it! ;^) |
For me the concern isn't what will show up in my mailbox later - though I've yet to experience any negative reactions to my previous comments so who knows, the experience could be devestating.
My main concern is for others, I would hate to hurt someone's feelings as I know how invested people (including myself!) can get in their images and many people are not honestly ready for negative critiques, especially if they are not couched with praise to soften the possible blow. I like to consider myself open to negative criticism but I always have that initial mean/derogatory thought about the person daring to question the brilliance of the shot I've entered. ;)
My other concern is that my comments will immediately be disregarded as "trollish". That's a phrase that people seem to like to throw around when they aren't receiving votes or comments they believe they should. I'd hate for the time I've taken to actually comment be thrown away as trash simply because it isn't candy-coated. Just makes a person not want to bother and I do enjoy making comments, but it does take a longer time when you have to figure out how to flufferize things you aren't enjoying in an image.
I guess my goal will be to figure out how I can get my more immediate, blunt and viceral reactions to images out there while balancing the need to be tactful. We'll see how successful I am at that.
Sorry for hijacking the thread with my issues!
- Sia
|
|
|
|
09/07/2006 09:42:56 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Gut reactions, first impressions, instinctive response - those are the heart and soul of what your image does for a viewer. Let's hear it! ;^) |
Amen!! "This is boring" is far more useful to me than "sharpen the focus and reduce the noise." Why should I sharpen the focus and reduce the noise? Some things require sharp focus and some require soft focus. Commenters should stop trying to sound smart and take just the briefest moment to listen to their hearts. Detailed technical comments only make sense if they are related to the effect a photo has on the gut level.
|
|
|
|
09/07/2006 10:00:11 AM · #17 |
I guess it takes all commenters to make the world go round. I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I think there are far too many tactless, bordering (and lots that are over the border) rude comments left on people's photos. And I don't think it helps aLOT of people. And if the point of a comment is to help people, rather than just to vent your own negative opinion about a photo, then why would it be better to be outspokenly tactless and forthcoming about your negative reaction to a photo without thought of how the photographer might receive the comment! Alot of people get very discouraged and want to quit (and many HAVE quit) with comments like "boring" or something equally as unconstructive.
I personally feel its the voters responsibility to leave comments that are not only truthful, but are also constructive and encouraging and will really help the photographer improve without having their spirit broken.
I'm glad not everyone agrees with the philosophy that we should just blurt out our initial negative reaction to a photo regardless of how it makes the photographer feel. We sure have enough people here that do have that philosophy.
So that's my 2-cents. I guess you can tell, its something that kind of hits on a nerve.
|
|
|
|
09/07/2006 10:06:31 AM · #18 |
Another thread about how mean comments can be.
It's called the Comments box, not the Advice box. Soliciting comments on your work is an open invitation to all sorts of reaction. You're dealing with a medium whose sole purpose as art is to elicit emotional response from the viewer, so a volatile and wide ranging spectrum of responses should be the expectation. If you get a bunch of technical tips instead, bonus for you if that's what you were after (but if that's all the viewer thought about when looking at the photo, have you really created what you hoped to?).
Message edited by author 2006-09-07 10:07:58. |
|
|
|
09/07/2006 10:07:03 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by SandyP:
... I'm glad not everyone agrees with the philosophy that we should just blurt out our initial negative reaction to a photo regardless of how it makes the photographer feel. ... |
1) Not all initial reactions are negative. ;^)
2) Thicker skin is needed to submit photos to contest open to public feedback IMO. |
|
|
|
09/07/2006 10:17:57 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by SandyP:
I personally feel its the voters responsibility to leave comments that are not only truthful, but are also constructive and encouraging and will really help the photographer improve without having their spirit broken. |
It's possible to be both courteous *and* useful. I strive to be both when I write comments, though I don't always succeed.
|
|
|
|
09/07/2006 10:24:12 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Gut reactions, first impressions, instinctive response - those are the heart and soul of what your image does for a viewer. Let's hear it! ;^) |
Amen!! "This is boring" is far more useful to me than "sharpen the focus and reduce the noise." Why should I sharpen the focus and reduce the noise? Some things require sharp focus and some require soft focus. Commenters should stop trying to sound smart and take just the briefest moment to listen to their hearts. Detailed technical comments only make sense if they are related to the effect a photo has on the gut level. |
There are also pictures that would be really good if it weren't for these issues. My gut reaction is "Would be great if not for the noise". Most likely it wasn't intentional and telling the photographer is hopefully helpful. I understand that not everyone knows how to remove it, but there are plenty here to help. |
|
|
|
09/07/2006 10:26:43 AM · #22 |
Hm.. I haven't noticed it that way, rather the opposite. Notice the commenters' average in the stats from my latest entry:
Place: 34 out of 202
Avg (all users): 5.826
Avg (commenters): 7.133
Avg (camera): 5.815
Avg (no camera): 6.111
Views since voting: 73
Views during voting: 386
Votes: 241
Comments: 15
Favorites: 0
|
|
|
|
09/07/2006 10:34:21 AM · #23 |
much respect to you for the way in which you've presented your observation. You didn't point fingers, you didn't call the voters wrong, and you right ... you just noticed something and started a thread for discussion, rather than a rant for the ignore button.
:)
as for the actual topic, I have no opinion either way ... sorry
:)
Message edited by author 2006-09-07 10:34:41. |
|
|
|
09/07/2006 11:53:53 AM · #24 |
Awesome posts guys! I am certainly learning a lot about voting/commenting habits here that I thnk we could all learn from in sussing out our feelings when receiving critical comments.
THanks again!
|
|
|
|
09/07/2006 11:55:36 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
There are also pictures that would be really good if it weren't for these issues. My gut reaction is "Would be great if not for the noise". Most likely it wasn't intentional and telling the photographer is hopefully helpful. I understand that not everyone knows how to remove it, but there are plenty here to help. |
No disagreement here. If that's your gut reaction, then say it!
I do think that when one studies photography and the visual arts, one learns new ways to enjoy images and thus actually trains one's "gut reaction" to appreciate more possibilities. But that's an entirely different discussion!
And btw, the very best critique is when a person explains his/her gut reaction and then thoughtfully analyzes why s/he reacted that way (and only then offer solutions, if at all). But I fully realize there's not always time for that!
|
|
