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09/04/2006 08:36:51 AM · #1 |
In honor of the comments in this thread I'm starting this one. If you want to bash me for my dissenting views on Steve Irwin's contributions, please post them here.
I am sad for his family and I sympathize with their loss. To add more fuel to your potential rant:
I do wonder about is how so many of you could so lionize this man without any ability to critically assess what it is that he's really done. Does anyone else remember him dangling his one-month-old son in front of a snapping crocodile all for the sake of greater ratings?
Come on...go for it...
PS: Dissent: –verb; to differ in sentiment or opinion, esp. from the majority; withhold assent; disagree
Dissent is a critical part of a democracy, and many of you have forgotten that, it seems.
PPS: I also didn't get ridiculously hysterical when Princess Diana died. Or JFK jr, for that matter. Bash me for that as well...feel free.
Message edited by author 2006-09-04 08:37:35. |
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09/04/2006 10:40:03 AM · #2 |
Thanks for this thread.
It shouldn't be much of a surprise that he died as he did, at the 'hands' of an animal. You live by the sword you die by the sword, as the cliche says.
had an average person been swimming non chalantly along and this happened, then that would be sad and tragic. This however is not tragic, not too surprising, but still sad.
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09/04/2006 11:26:21 AM · #3 |
It's one thing to watch the show and say "man this guy's going to die one day, what an idiot."
And it's a completely different thing to bring that back up after he dies. Are you insensitive or something? Grow up man and get off the guy's back. He's dead and that sucks no matter how you look at it or how he died. No matter how much money he left behind or what kind of an insurance policy, there's one lady now that will never wake up next to her husband again. There are two kids that will never play catch in the back yard with their father.
And to say this isn't tragic is just ridiculous. This is a very tragic event in anyone's life. If you weren't a fan of Steve, that's fine. If no one in the world was Steve's fan, then that's fine as well. But like I said already, he's leaving family and friends somewhere without him and it is tragic no matter how you look at it.
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09/04/2006 11:33:34 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by deapee:
It's one thing to watch the show and say "man this guy's going to die one day, what an idiot."
And it's a completely different thing to bring that back up after he dies. Are you insensitive or something? Grow up man and get off the guy's back. He's dead and that sucks no matter how you look at it or how he died. No matter how much money he left behind or what kind of an insurance policy, there's one lady now that will never wake up next to her husband again. There are two kids that will never play catch in the back yard with their father.
And to say this isn't tragic is just ridiculous. This is a very tragic event in anyone's life. If you weren't a fan of Steve, that's fine. If no one in the world was Steve's fan, then that's fine as well. But like I said already, he's leaving family and friends somewhere without him and it is tragic no matter how you look at it. |
AMEN !!
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09/04/2006 11:34:23 AM · #5 |
Exactly!
Originally posted by deapee:
It's one thing to watch the show and say "man this guy's going to die one day, what an idiot."
And it's a completely different thing to bring that back up after he dies. Are you insensitive or something? Grow up man and get off the guy's back. He's dead and that sucks no matter how you look at it or how he died. No matter how much money he left behind or what kind of an insurance policy, there's one lady now that will never wake up next to her husband again. There are two kids that will never play catch in the back yard with their father.
And to say this isn't tragic is just ridiculous. This is a very tragic event in anyone's life. If you weren't a fan of Steve, that's fine. If no one in the world was Steve's fan, then that's fine as well. But like I said already, he's leaving family and friends somewhere without him and it is tragic no matter how you look at it. |
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09/04/2006 11:45:32 AM · #6 |
| Geez, this is like, twice in one week I've agreed with Deapee :) |
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09/04/2006 11:47:13 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
Geez, this is like, twice in one week I've agreed with Deapee :) |
Mark those dates on your calendar. ;D |
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09/04/2006 11:48:21 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
Geez, this is like, twice in one week I've agreed with Deapee :) |
You stole my comment : )
I agree that Mr. Irwin's methods and style may have been debatable, but not the tragedy of his death. |
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09/04/2006 01:14:39 PM · #9 |
What is tragedy then? My definition would be Katrina, not the loss of a fighter pilot in combat. One is somewhat unexpected and unavoidable. the other is predictable and not unexpected.
granted, mrs croc has lost her husband. However, I assume she was aware of the dangers of his profession and accepted the possbility of his death or dismemberment. If she didn't leave him after he dangled their child over the crocs then that was her decision, just as it was to stay with him knowing the dangers.
I can feel bad for her, for the family, their loss, sure. However, to be surprised by the way he died is to admit to being either naive or a fool. So IMO, it's not tragic. Had he been run over by a transit bus, then yes, that would have been tragic, unforeseen, and worthy of more sympathy. But he knew the dangers and so did she, and they chose to live, or die, with them.
Message edited by author 2006-09-04 13:15:06.
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09/04/2006 01:42:29 PM · #10 |
I think the surpise comes from the fact that he didn't die because of a snake or gator but rather a creature which Humans have had plenty of contact with without being attacked. It was a freak accident. it is like when a Race Car Driver gets killed driving to the store to pick up milk. or in a plane crash. The thing that most likely would get them is the race car however they went in a way no one expected which is why many people are shocked about this. I think any time someone dies and leaves 2 small kids behind it is a tragedy. They unlike his wife, Do not really understand the dangers and risks involved in his job. They just know he played with the animals.
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09/04/2006 01:43:08 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
What is tragedy then? My definition would be Katrina, not the loss of a fighter pilot in combat. One is somewhat unexpected and unavoidable. the other is predictable and not unexpected.
granted, mrs croc has lost her husband. However, I assume she was aware of the dangers of his profession and accepted the possbility of his death or dismemberment. If she didn't leave him after he dangled their child over the crocs then that was her decision, just as it was to stay with him knowing the dangers.
I can feel bad for her, for the family, their loss, sure. However, to be surprised by the way he died is to admit to being either naive or a fool. So IMO, it's not tragic. Had he been run over by a transit bus, then yes, that would have been tragic, unforeseen, and worthy of more sympathy. But he knew the dangers and so did she, and they chose to live, or die, with them. |
Well said. |
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09/04/2006 02:04:23 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by deapee:
It's one thing to watch the show and say "man this guy's going to die one day, what an idiot."
And it's a completely different thing to bring that back up after he dies. Are you insensitive or something? Grow up man and get off the guy's back. He's dead and that sucks no matter how you look at it or how he died. No matter how much money he left behind or what kind of an insurance policy, there's one lady now that will never wake up next to her husband again. There are two kids that will never play catch in the back yard with their father.
And to say this isn't tragic is just ridiculous. This is a very tragic event in anyone's life. If you weren't a fan of Steve, that's fine. If no one in the world was Steve's fan, then that's fine as well. But like I said already, he's leaving family and friends somewhere without him and it is tragic no matter how you look at it. |
Yep, what he said. |
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09/04/2006 02:20:28 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
What is tragedy then? My definition would be Katrina, not the loss of a fighter pilot in combat. One is somewhat unexpected and unavoidable. the other is predictable and not unexpected. |
While there is no disputing that Katrina was indeed "Unavoidable", it most certainly was NOT "Unexpected". Are we to infer then that it also would not fall under the realm of "Tragedy"?
Just curious.
Ray |
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09/04/2006 02:38:42 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
What is tragedy then? My definition would be Katrina, not the loss of a fighter pilot in combat. One is somewhat unexpected and unavoidable. the other is predictable and not unexpected. |
While there is no disputing that Katrina was indeed "Unavoidable", it most certainly was NOT "Unexpected". Are we to infer then that it also would not fall under the realm of "Tragedy"?
Just curious.
Ray |
Exactly. That's the misperception that is still out there that nobody predicted what could happen in New Orleans. Even FEMA back in early 2001 listed in a report that New Orleans' levees as one of the top three most likely disasters waiting to happen. The other two were a terrorist attack in NYC (called before it actually happened) and the third I believe was a Californa earthquake. In other words, pretty obvious things except no hollywood movie was made about the levees failing so I guess that's why it wasn't common knowledge with some people before the fact.
Btw ergo, I didn't particular care for Steve's show either or how he handled the animals let alone his baby during that one show but he did do a lot of good things with his notoriety and just going by this site's outpouring of support I'd say he had a very positive effect on a lot of people. He may have done things in an unsual way but he taught a lot of people to respect animals even if you feel he didn't show that same respect back. Even in his death he is still bringing awareness to the dangers of diving. From all accounts I have seen it was a freakish accident, which could have happened to anyone.
Message edited by author 2006-09-04 14:41:50.
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09/04/2006 02:48:56 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
What is tragedy then? My definition would be Katrina, not the loss of a fighter pilot in combat. One is somewhat unexpected and unavoidable. the other is predictable and not unexpected.
granted, mrs croc has lost her husband. However, I assume she was aware of the dangers of his profession and accepted the possbility of his death or dismemberment. If she didn't leave him after he dangled their child over the crocs then that was her decision, just as it was to stay with him knowing the dangers.
I can feel bad for her, for the family, their loss, sure. However, to be surprised by the way he died is to admit to being either naive or a fool. So IMO, it's not tragic. Had he been run over by a transit bus, then yes, that would have been tragic, unforeseen, and worthy of more sympathy. But he knew the dangers and so did she, and they chose to live, or die, with them. |
Actually, I think your comments might be better received if you actually used the word "tragic" by the true definition and not what you deem tragic to be. Death by cancer is not a surprise but it is tragic. A sick baby that had little chance to live finally dies after a year - do you not think that his/her family would consider that tragic?
The fact is that a woman lost her husband and two kids lost their father. I'd say that's pretty damned tragic, no matter what the cause of death.
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09/04/2006 04:10:43 PM · #16 |
Sheesh ... This thread screams out to me, "Hey look at me, I didn't get enough attention with my inappropriate rant."
Starting to get really sick of every single topic that pops up on DPC becoming a debate.... really sick of it.
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09/04/2006 04:19:01 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by dudephil:
The fact is that a woman lost her husband and two kids lost their father. I'd say that's pretty damned tragic, no matter what the cause of death. |
Yep, I'd agree that it's both tragic and a tragedy for Steve's family and friends. I'd like to know how it's tragic or a tragedy for other people who don't know him personally, and whose connections to him are through his tv programs or movies. I'd further like to reiterate how people can be so uncritical about what he's done, with specific regards to the environmentalism cause.
Steve Irwin was a pioneer. He was the first to turn animal/nature shows into a sideshow. In his presentations, the animals and nature are not the center of attention. HE and what he does with the animals become the center of attention. Following his lead, a slew of other "nature" guys followed suit and this mode of presenting nature and animals for television has become the norm. (compared to the attenborough way of doing it).
Look at it critically. How is it a conservation message when you actively pursue, manhandle and stress out the snake, croc or whatever else happens to be on the TV menu for that episode? A basic tenet of conservationism is that animals, too, have rights, including rights to their own environment and freedom. I do believe that in his own mind, he's doing a lot of good for the cause. I strongly feel that he was a very good natured man. And yes, perhaps people are now more mindful of nature/environmental issues because they'd become fans of Steve's shows. So yes, that's a bit of good. But why is it that the irony of what Steve does escape so many people? Wouldn't a snake be more beautiful in its natural environment, instead of within the chokehold of a man? Crikey...
His death...people keep saying how rare it is for stingrays to attack. I am a diver, and in over 300 dives I've encountered stingrays in multiple occassions. They have never been aggressive, and they have ALWAYS ran away whenever they spot a threat, and yes, human scuba divers are threats to them. So, how is it that Steve got so close? |
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09/04/2006 04:22:18 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Sheesh ... This thread screams out to me, "Hey look at me, I didn't get enough attention with my inappropriate rant."
Starting to get really sick of every single topic that pops up on DPC becoming a debate.... really sick of it. |
Excuse you...
Who are you to tell me something is appropriate or not? I'm getting sick and tired of people in this community trying to dictate the will of the majority upon anyone who dares to express dissenting views.
Message edited by author 2006-09-04 16:22:39. |
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09/04/2006 04:25:19 PM · #19 |
I agree Fotomann , seems like everything has to be faught over lately. But If you ask me. This one isn't even debatable. Someone Famous Died It effects everyone in a different way. Maybe not a tragedy to most or some, but it is certainly a tragedy to anyone who was close to the guy especially his wife and kids. And perhaps some diehard fans. (I would imagine the entire country of Austrailia is in shock today) To rip on anyone because of the way they are effected by a tragedy just because it didn't effect you in any way is pretty lame, selfish actually, in cases like this the best bet is to keep the mouth closed. Someone Died. It should not become a debate.
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Sheesh ... This thread screams out to me, "Hey look at me, I didn't get enough attention with my inappropriate rant."
Starting to get really sick of every single topic that pops up on DPC becoming a debate.... really sick of it. |
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09/04/2006 04:25:38 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by ergo:
I'm getting sick and tired of people in this community trying to dictate the will of the majority upon anyone who dares to express dissenting views. |
Preaching to the preacher on that one, bud... :-)
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09/04/2006 04:55:11 PM · #21 |
ergo are you aware of the fact that with the millions of dollars that Steve Irwin made he brought vast amounts of land that has been put aside for conservation because he was so passionate about the decline in natural habitat for Australian wildlife.
He also has a Zoo that has been running for 30 years and takes in a lot of injured and displaced wildlife.
Steve Irwin was a conservationist, an environmentalist and an a wildlife educator. Just because you don't agree with his methods don't try and distaught the facts he has done more for animal welfare then you or anyone else here.
Your inappropiate rant so soon after Steve's death shows your total lack of respect for human life.
Message edited by author 2006-09-04 17:34:39.
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09/04/2006 04:57:39 PM · #22 |
| It's a bummer the guy died. A few thousand other people died within the same minute he did. A few thousand more have died since. It's not tragic, it's part of life. Maybe he's since been reborn as a crocodile. |
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09/04/2006 05:44:04 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
Maybe he's since been reborn as a crocodile. |
I'm sure he would absolutely love that idea.
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09/04/2006 06:45:46 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
What is tragedy then? My definition would be Katrina, not the loss of a fighter pilot in combat. One is somewhat unexpected and unavoidable. the other is predictable and not unexpected.
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I hate to see such a outgoing personality pass. Children everywhere loved the guy. However, I knew it was probably a matter of time. When you watch the tail of a huge croc swish inches over his head.... well, one hit and he'd be brain dead. I've seen at least five different films with him escaping by inches. So I guess the unexpected part that qualifies for tragedy is the fact that it was a stingray.
Oh yeah, according to the definition Katrina/New Orleans wasn't a tragedy either. They've known this was going to happen for 40 years since Betsy hit them in 1965. The sad thing is they're building back and it's inevitable that it will happen again. :(
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09/04/2006 06:51:52 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Sheesh ... This thread screams out to me, "Hey look at me, I didn't get enough attention with my inappropriate rant."
Starting to get really sick of every single topic that pops up on DPC becoming a debate.... really sick of it. |
Sheesh ... I though that was what the rant forum was for. Luring the rants away from the other forums. ;) Those who don't like rants could turn this forum off in their profile.
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