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08/24/2006 08:01:57 PM · #1 |
Getting on to time for a new computer. This one has been upgraded over the years, but is pushing 5 years old now, and isn't Vista ready or even CS2 ready.
So instead of more upgrades, I want a new computer. I build my own, and plan to again (unless there is some financially compelling reason not to). I have not kept on the technology...new processors, vid cards, FS bus speeds, etc.
I don't game, ever. CS2, XP and probably vista at some point) office, web, etc. Nothing exotic.
Looking roughly for dual CRT capablity, no fire-wire, hardwire networking,
Nice but not 100% necesary: DVD-RW, card reader (i have these..)
Don't need mouse and kbd (have lots of these), TV tuner or monitor
Need a C drive for windows and applications, but data always goes on a D drive. probably want SATA capability, and 4 or more drive capability.
Not sure about other expansion needs as USB fills most of that.
No clue on what mother board (or what brand/class/specs/range/formfactor ) to seek
Thinking athlon X2 dual core, but only if i derive some real benefit from it (I have been AMD for years, better price-performance ratio than intel)
I have XP Pro...want to get a copy for the new pooter - MCE or Pro? I hear Home is not secure.
Input please!
Oh yeah, trying to keep total cost as low as possible, like $600? Is that possible?
Message edited by author 2006-08-24 20:02:27. |
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08/24/2006 08:30:59 PM · #2 |
Lots of questions to answer here.
First look at a dual core 64 bit CPU either AMD OR Intel
Most good graphic cards will do dual monitors but be specific to ask when you buy. Make sure its vista ready (drivers will be available when Vista ships.
Get as big a second (d:) drive as you can afford your c: drive should be at least big enough for vista and your apps.
MCE is not quite the same as Pro in terms of security and you can make XP Pro with software from ATI or third parties(Some even free) do what media center does.
Make shure you get a decent PSU with your case since newer graphic cards draw power from them directly.
$600 is a bit tight if you factor in Windows in the cost.
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08/24/2006 08:52:54 PM · #3 |
XP Home should be just as secure as Pro - as far as I know, the only differences are some more config options for limited user accounts, group policy editor, and support for 10-PC workgroups. If you don't have a hardware firewall, and have a high speed connection, a software one instead of the built-in windows XP one wouldn't hurt.
Intel's newest processors do seem to have the edge on AMD for now, but with a $600 budget you're probably better off with a slightly older/lower end one, and AMD should be a good choice there.
I'd get something along these lines:
Board:
//www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813127007
Case
//www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811119068
HD:
//www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822148144
RAM:
//www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820231085
PS:
//www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16817103937
CPU:
//www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819103735
Vid card:
//www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814150162
It'll definitely be CS2 compatible. It's a little over your 600 budget, but it is an X2 3800+ system with 2GB of RAM.. |
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08/25/2006 02:21:59 AM · #4 |
Yeah XP Home is basically as secure as Pro, unless you are sharing files and things, in which case pro offers somewhat more granuality - but you should ideally have a hardware firewall blocking the shares to the outside world anyway.
Remote desktop capability is not enabled on home, so you can't log on from another PC. That might or might not be useful to you.
IIS is not in home edition.
Home edition does not support windows file encryption.
Home edition PCs can't join a domain.
If none of that matters, you have no need to get pro edition.
I would seriously look at whether self-build is the way to go these days - often you can get a pre-built system of the same quality for less money, because the builders have such better scale - especially if you don't need a monitor. You also then get hardware support for the box as a whole and, I normally find, a quieter machine to work with.
Dual core is definitely the way to go.
If you do do a self-build, then my advice to you would be - don't skimp on the motherboard or power supply to save a few bucks. These are massively key components that some people neglect, and then wonder why they have a slow, unstable system. |
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08/25/2006 03:39:53 AM · #5 |
Sorry could not help asking.
If I my Primary hard disk has two partions, can I install Window XP on both partions . My query related legal aspect not tecnical aspect. I mean can a person install OS twice on same Pc but on Differnt Partions.
Some one aked this question recently. |
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08/25/2006 05:03:44 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by General:
Sorry could not help asking.
If I my Primary hard disk has two partions, can I install Window XP on both partions . My query related legal aspect not tecnical aspect. I mean can a person install OS twice on same Pc but on Differnt Partions.
Some one aked this question recently. |
Probably - you would only be using one copy at any one time. Doing so is unlikely to create any significant risk. But for the strict legal answer you would have to look at the terms of your licence in the context of your local legal system.
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08/25/2006 05:40:13 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
It'll definitely be CS2 compatible. It's a little over your 600 budget, but it is an X2 3800+ system with 2GB of RAM.. |
Just thought I'd emphasise that bit - memory is going to have a far bigger impact on CS2 performance than processor, so if you have to cut back on the spec to fit budget keep the memory at 2GB.
( in fact, I'd tentatively suggest that if it came down to dual-core, 1GB system and a single-core 2GB one I'd take the 2GB option every time - but I'm sure I'd be disagreed with ;-) )
We've just added an extra gig to both our machines and the difference is truly breath-taking.
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08/25/2006 05:45:52 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by ganders:
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
It'll definitely be CS2 compatible. It's a little over your 600 budget, but it is an X2 3800+ system with 2GB of RAM.. |
Just thought I'd emphasise that bit - memory is going to have a far bigger impact on CS2 performance than processor, so if you have to cut back on the spec to fit budget keep the memory at 2GB.
( in fact, I'd tentatively suggest that if it came down to dual-core, 1GB system and a single-core 2GB one I'd take the 2GB option every time - but I'm sure I'd be disagreed with ;-) )
We've just added an extra gig to both our machines and the difference is truly breath-taking. |
I would agree that it makes a big performance gain - but if you are a techie type who is likely to add to the system in the future, note that RAM is an easy upgrade for the future whereas a CPU is not. That might be a reason to go for the processor rather than the memory.
Again, if you are techie, there is a cheap dual core Intel processor out there that can be overclocked to oblivion - cannot remember all the details, but when clocked it was as speedy as processors costing 7 or 8 times as much.
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08/25/2006 07:59:56 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by legalbeagle:
Originally posted by ganders:
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
It'll definitely be CS2 compatible. It's a little over your 600 budget, but it is an X2 3800+ system with 2GB of RAM.. |
Just thought I'd emphasise that bit - memory is going to have a far bigger impact on CS2 performance than processor, so if you have to cut back on the spec to fit budget keep the memory at 2GB.
( in fact, I'd tentatively suggest that if it came down to dual-core, 1GB system and a single-core 2GB one I'd take the 2GB option every time - but I'm sure I'd be disagreed with ;-) )
We've just added an extra gig to both our machines and the difference is truly breath-taking. |
I would agree that it makes a big performance gain - but if you are a techie type who is likely to add to the system in the future, note that RAM is an easy upgrade for the future whereas a CPU is not. That might be a reason to go for the processor rather than the memory.
Again, if you are techie, there is a cheap dual core Intel processor out there that can be overclocked to oblivion - cannot remember all the details, but when clocked it was as speedy as processors costing 7 or 8 times as much. |
That is the new Intel core2 6300E - even without overclocking they are very fast - for once better value than the AMD stuff, might be worth looking at this too - I am... any suggestions of motherboard for a fast but not too expensive system appriciated.
MCE is basically XP Pro with extra features to make it into a home media entertainment system. It is VERY fussy about hardware so if you want to go this way make sure everything is MCE compatible. Never got it working on my system... but it wasn't designed around MCE either. |
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08/25/2006 08:08:06 AM · #10 |
| I doubt that you'd really want media centre edition, and, yes, I think that it requires certified hardware, so that'd pretty much rule out self-build. |
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08/25/2006 09:24:17 AM · #11 |
Pro seems to run $100 more. I was originally figuring to buy a prebuilt system to get the OS (lots cheaper than buying it seperately) and if I go with Home then I may do that, as the Pro upgrade is costly.
I know 2gb of ram is tough on the budget. My current system can take it, but it's a $180 upgrade (more or less) and I could use a newer/faster system.
So if i wanted to get a pre-built system, whose good and reliable, affordable? Googling brings up all kinds of (crap) stuff. Dell is likely too pricey. I've seen ads in PC magazine and such, the big display ads, and normally I'd not be too concerned but it's been years since i dealt with the PC industry this way, and well, except for b&h, the camera industry sucks (just because they have a full page ad does not make them good to deal with).
We used to have monthly computer shows here, but they've pretty much disappeared so that avenue is out. |
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08/25/2006 09:28:28 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Getting on to time for a new computer. This one has been upgraded over the years, but is pushing 5 years old now, and isn't Vista ready or even CS2 ready.
So instead of more upgrades, I want a new computer. I build my own, and plan to again (unless there is some financially compelling reason not to). I have not kept on the technology...new processors, vid cards, FS bus speeds, etc.
I don't game, ever. CS2, XP and probably vista at some point) office, web, etc. Nothing exotic.
Looking roughly for dual CRT capablity, no fire-wire, hardwire networking,
Nice but not 100% necesary: DVD-RW, card reader (i have these..)
Don't need mouse and kbd (have lots of these), TV tuner or monitor
Need a C drive for windows and applications, but data always goes on a D drive. probably want SATA capability, and 4 or more drive capability.
Not sure about other expansion needs as USB fills most of that.
No clue on what mother board (or what brand/class/specs/range/formfactor ) to seek
Thinking athlon X2 dual core, but only if i derive some real benefit from it (I have been AMD for years, better price-performance ratio than intel)
I have XP Pro...want to get a copy for the new pooter - MCE or Pro? I hear Home is not secure.
Input please!
Oh yeah, trying to keep total cost as low as possible, like $600? Is that possible? |
You may not game, ever, but the game-oriented graphics cards are also excellent for photo editing. ;-)
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08/25/2006 09:59:33 AM · #13 |
For the record, media center builds are a piece of cake if you RTFM... I built one yesterday with an OEM copy from Newegg (cost same as XP Home) for a friend at work.
People that think they know what they are doing (without RTFM) just pop in CDs and expect it to load. Media Center 2005 loads fine but most most have probs with the Roll-up 2 (two hotfixes that Windows Update adds need to be removed before it will take)
AverMedia makes a great MCE TV/FM tuner card that is as simple as plugging it in and MCE recognizes it..., My home home MCE2005 machine has the AverMedia MCE1500 and the ATI HDTV wonder tuners... Now we know ATI can't right a good driver to save their lives so the HDTV wonder was a little tougher to get working, but all said and done I enjoy recording both analog and Digital/HDTV on mine.
MediaCenter is cool if you need a second PVR/DVR (tivo type box) in your house...we record on ours all the time.
Xbox360 is a MediaCenter Extender so stuff recorded in the Den can be watched in living room over the network and through the XBOX360.
All of my music CDs are ripped to my MCE machine and can be served up through the Entertainment System in the LR.
Note: for those that are not familiar with RTFM... it means Read The Frikkin Manual...
Anyone on Vista right now knows that it isn't quite ready for prime time and the media side is really lacking... :(
Andy
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08/25/2006 10:06:32 AM · #14 |
| dont have time for details right now,will give specs in a while but is easy to do for that cost if you build your own. |
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08/25/2006 11:41:38 AM · #15 |
dual core 165 opteron and clock the balls off it :)
//www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=200&page=1
the other thing that PS likes is Cache - the more on chip cache u have the better :D
Message edited by author 2006-08-25 11:48:30. |
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08/25/2006 12:09:20 PM · #16 |
This is the one I was thinking of - the Pentium D 805:
//tomshardware.co.uk/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores_uk/
Originally posted by TomsHardware:
With a simple modification, however, this CPU can outperform every top-of-the-line processor around. The bottom line is that the Athlon FX-60 and the Pentium Extreme Edition 965 have both met their match - there's simply no escaping this conclusion!
...
a cheap CPU that costs £79.95 outperforms the fastest processors from AMD (Athlon 64 FX-60) and Intel (Pentium Extreme Edition 965), each of which costs over £700.
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Message edited by author 2006-08-25 12:13:29.
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08/25/2006 03:05:50 PM · #17 |
$300 CPU..not in the budget :(
Knowing the more L2 cache the better helps though.
This is all good - slowly winnowing it down to what works. MCE is not important - i lack it now and get my CDs ripped. I don't have (TV) cable in the addition that is my office so no PVR/DVR is poosible.
Looks like XP home. |
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08/25/2006 08:06:27 PM · #18 |
:(
//www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103562 more like it?
//www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127221 Motherboard
//www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145098 2GB RAM
i take it you have everything else?
oh - PCI-E graphics
//www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814122005
oh and XP Home supports dual core - but not Dual CPU as M$ does its licencing per CPU slot rather than by core..
Message edited by author 2006-08-25 20:07:38. |
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08/25/2006 08:37:55 PM · #19 |
Chris, have you considered leasing a top-end PC from Dell Small Business?
You'll most likely be wanting to upgrade anyways. The budget may not be able to afford $1800, by surely you bring in enough on the photography to afford $50 a month, right?
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08/25/2006 10:34:05 PM · #20 |
I'm amazed no-one else is talking about Intels new Core 2 Duo chips, they are well priced and faster than anything else for the money. I am seriously considering upgrading to the e6300 which is the base model, faster bus speeds and a much more efficient processor mean great performance. Unlike most recent Intel chips it is easy to overclock too... you can get somewhere around a 50% speed increase with standard cooling...
I'm just tyring to find some info on motherboads now... |
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08/26/2006 02:55:11 AM · #21 |
| Get a board that will take 4 gig of ram for Vista. Even if you don't put all 4 in right away. I beta'd Vista, and it hammered fairly new dual core 2 gig system pretty rapidly doing video. |
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08/26/2006 09:16:05 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by boomtap:
Get a board that will take 4 gig of ram for Vista. Even if you don't put all 4 in right away. I beta'd Vista, and it hammered fairly new dual core 2 gig system pretty rapidly doing video. |
Why doesn't that surprise me... upgrade to new Windows, now even slower :P |
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08/26/2006 11:48:06 AM · #23 |
I figure a case, DVD-RAM (no need to burn) and a HD - and XP...I get $638 w/ shipping starting with your components. Hmmm...can't seem to get below $600.
At least I am more educated now...but have to deal with car issues before i spend any more money. We have 3 vehicles, and only 1 is working at this time...one needs an engine and the other awaiting parts that won't come in till tuesday,so we may be buying a new van next week. Debt - it's no fun, unless it's for camera stuff LOL |
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08/26/2006 06:05:20 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Leok:
I'm amazed no-one else is talking about Intels new Core 2 Duo chips, they are well priced and faster than anything else for the money. |
pretty screwed when those who have bought AMD 32/64 compatable CPU's then gain a 30-40% speed hike when everything goes 64bit next year - all those with Duo's will be looking to upgrade and those who have AMD will be smiling ;)
if you want to go under that price - get 1GB el cheapo RAM to tide u over ;)
Message edited by author 2006-08-26 18:05:52. |
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08/26/2006 07:32:11 PM · #25 |
After upgrading our original Compaq over the years - 2 x new motherboards, new PSU's, RAM, hard drives etc our pc finally gave up about 2 weeks ago. My son and I managed to get it going again but it was a bit on the flakey side. So I looked at the various on-line suppliers where you can customise your system. Pretty good value, did not need a monitor, OS, etc. So I was looking at around £380. Anyway I then came across one of the major electrical retailers web site and sitting there was this :-
COMPAQ SR1909UK
AMD Athlon 3500+ Processor
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
512MB DDR RAM
80GB Hard Disk Drive
Dual Layer DVD ReWriter Drive
256MB NVIDIA Geforce 6150LE GPU Graphics
9-In-1 Media Card Reader
7 USB Connections
4 PCI Slots
2 Firewire Connections
and all for just £320 (no monitor) -(thats about USD 605)
It arrived this morning and it was up and running in no time. Its soooo quiet and compared to my old pc it just wizzes along. I am very pleased with it!
Mike
Message edited by author 2006-08-27 14:50:10.
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