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09/17/2003 10:13:33 PM · #26 |
OK, I'll lower the tone.
:) :) :) :)
What's unfounded, misinformed or ill-motivated in what I said? Let's discuss it. |
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09/17/2003 11:35:42 PM · #27 |
I have found many friends in this site, and I have learned a lot. For me, DPC has been a community coming together in friendly competition where the competition is fun, good spirited and fierce (in a quality-demanding sense). From this discussion, it sounds as though this is what we all want as our goal.
For my part, I do a somewhat regular profile of some of my favorite photographers from whom I've learned, and I've tried to be extremely careful about how I present their material so as to celebrate and not offend. Some of my profiles have been about DPCers who have won lots of ribbons, some have won no ribbons; all are excellent photographers, and I hope that I have succeeded in nurturing a feeling of celebration and learning--something I think Zeus was trying to do with his posts. I posit myself as a non-expert; I know full well that there are better photographers than me here--and many have won few or no ribbons! One thing I've tried to do is invest my profiles with a theme of sorts so that learning is the goal. I'm not sure if I have succeeded, and now I'm not sure if I should continue. Certainly if many people did this, we might run into problems. Sigh. I just want to assume that people usually have good intentions, and then I try to discover what those intentions are.
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09/17/2003 11:44:01 PM · #28 |
Very well said, David. I couldn't agree more. I do not want to add fuel to the fire, but really, I hope reason will prevail over ego.
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09/17/2003 11:48:38 PM · #29 |
I really liked Zeus's effort and enthusiasm in doing his "Top Pic(k)s". I don't think it takes away from the winners of the challenge. Those winners are on the front page for a whole week and his threads are gone in a day, so what is the harm?
The post are fun and interesting to see what others think, etc. I don't understand why some don't like it. It's not like it's off-topic. It gives insite to what others think and why. Of course you could go back and read every single comment to get this same information, but it's more fun and "binding" to the community to allow/encourage it in a thread like his instead.
Anyway, Zeuszen, sorry that so many take offense to your posts or whatever their problem is. I think it's kinda odd to tell you the truth.
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09/17/2003 11:50:04 PM · #30 |
| David- I like your thought on believing the best of peoples intentions, and I think your posts are quite different than those being discussed in that you highlight a theme or use them in teaching manner (from what I can recall). I hope that you would continue. I for one, appreciate your efforts as well as zeus' to highlight photos/photographers. I know both of your efforts (and those of others), are time consuming. Both of your posts have caused me to stop and pause, to appreciate beauty that otherwise I would have missed. I was particualarly inspired by your recent post on lighting, it really challenged me to see light in a new way and allowed me to produce some shots I was really happy with. So to both of you for your time and 'life-enriching' contributions. I am sorry both of you (and others), have come under such a barrage of criticism. |
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09/18/2003 12:58:19 AM · #31 |
David: I've enjoyed your profiles. I hope you'll continue them. I really want to dig into how, to me, they are vastly different from Zeus' series, but I'm done beating this drum. (And, Ellamay, I don't think there's been any criticism of David that I know of, at least not from me.)
I'm not sure why this has struck such a chord with me - I've never won a ribbon, so it's not a personal thing (though, what got me started was a ribbon winner who was hurt by one of these "harmless" threads). Zeus just seems to have a way of pushing some button in me. I guess the only "satisfaction" (not the right word, but I'm running out of steam) I can take is that there have been others who seem to have the same opinion and/or reaction as I do, and the issue is up for open debate, not being ignored.
Believe it or not, I really don't have any intentions to be beligerent here. But when someone seems to discount or ignore any opposing point of view, sometimes it feels like maybe the only thing you can do to get a reaction is to scream, metaphorically speaking. But I suppose that's not really the right action either.
So, unless there's some positive feedback, I'll be done with this thread and this issue. Continue the series or don't. At least the opposition has been aired, and it's up to the admins or the site council or whoever to decide whether it's worth following up on.
And, David - I look forward to your next profile! :) |
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09/18/2003 01:14:02 AM · #32 |
my two cents:
penny 1:
zeus, i think that you should continue the thread. If someone doesn't enjoy your POV, they can easily not click on your posted topic. Simple as that.
penny 2:
I don't think that you should point out to a challenge winner that you feel they should have scored lower in big bold font. Like I said before, if I just won a contest, and you said yeah nice pic, but it should have finished 3rd it would hurt my feelings ( and as scott pointed out - it actually DID happen, I remember the post from the hurt winner ).
So adding my two pennies together - equaling 42...the meaning of life...continue what you're doing, just take peoples feelings into consideration when using official looking rankings - critiques and "rankings" are two different things.
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09/18/2003 10:59:22 AM · #33 |
ZZ tops have been, with dsidwell’s weekly portrait feature, the two spontaneous initiatives that have kept me nosing around the site looking into other people’s work, knowing I would discover in their company some works of interest.
ZZ top picks are selected on such different criteria than those involved in the official challenge, that I don’t see how this could have been interfering.
I would have had a great feeling of achievement to get on the same week a blue ribbon plus to be selected as a ZZ top three, whatever ranking it was. It would be like (all proportions kept) getting the Pulitzer Prize and a 3rd prize from world Associated Press at the same time. I really don’t understand people that think this was demeaning or a “slap on the face” for the official winners. There was no confusion possible.
I have now been here long enough to know that the few careful and seasoned viewers that provide insightful comments on our images every week have not much influence on who will get boosted to an official podium position.
Some photos of real interest, with only remote chances to be top3, will often go perfectly unnoticed. ZeusZen invested some quality time to extend the life span of some of them for a day or two and gave to those who produced them a satisfying and brief feeling of recognition. And it was all done in a sensitive and articulate fashion.
Concerning the proliferation of POTD type of initiatives that followed ZZ’s. It only proves it was a good idea. Those of quality would have survived, the others not. Why such a big stir up?
ZZ, the only truly silly thing you have done, so far, was to give in!
I wish you all the best
PS: How about a creating “sharpest pic of the week thread” or such (in the rant section of course). This should not interfere with those who would rather read about lens extentions and who will be DQed next.
Message edited by author 2003-09-18 11:45:29. |
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09/18/2003 11:08:22 AM · #34 |
Very well stated jjbeguin, I agree whole heartedly!
Message edited by author 2003-09-18 11:08:53. |
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09/18/2003 12:33:03 PM · #35 |
| Okay, I'm embarrassed because I am the winner who expressed displeasure over Zeus' Top Picks. It was certainly not my intention to start a confrontation. Quite honestly, seeing my ribbon on the site was really exciting for me and then noticing right under it, Zeus' Top Picks, 1, 2 and 3 for the challenge did seem insensitive and it did at first make me feel as if he was saying he felt those three photos should have been the winners. I also thought, "Who is this guy that thinks his opinion is so much more valid than everyone elses." I realized later after further investigation that it was not his intention to say these were the photos he thought should have won, but rather to select three others he felt deserved merit. For that, I apologized for the misunderstanding. That being said, while I appreciate his effort to contribute something extra to the site, his opinions did have a lofty and arrogant tone to them, as if he felt he alone was able to see something the rest of the voters and participants were not able to recognize. And I feel, as Gordon expressed, that there are more appropriate places for personal opinions. Posting them in the threads somehow seems self-serving. Anyway, that is just my opinion and many others have expressed a different one. I respect the input and opinions of all on this site equally, and would just like a harmonious resolve. |
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