Voting or Comments, which is more important.

08/11/2006 01:29:05 PM · #1

Considering that everyone has a finite amount of time, is it better to vote 100% in both open challenges and comment on 10% of the images or to vote in one challenge and comment on 50% or more of the images?

Your thoughts?

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

08/11/2006 01:30:10 PM · #2

I would prefer the latter.

otisXmike

Canon EOS-30D

08/11/2006 01:30:35 PM · #3

I'd rather get comments than votes... votes mean nothing. comments at least have the possibility of helping you improve.

Message edited by author 2006-08-11 13:30:55.

Jaded_Housewife

08/11/2006 01:33:15 PM · #4

I prefer commetns to votes. unless those missed votes are 7's, 8's,9's or 10's of course. ;) just kidding. always more comments. I can't get enough.lol

JamesKW

08/11/2006 01:37:29 PM · #5

Of course we all want the votes, but, if you are going to score someone low on an entry, take the time to tell them what is wrong. I am new to this whole thing, especially post proccessing. Most of the comments that I have gotten have helped alot. Scores are going up and most important, I like the pictures that I am taking better.

08/11/2006 01:53:10 PM · #6

Ok, here are my thoughts. I kind of like votes over comments. I find it relatively easy to tell what is wrong with my photos but either I don't have the time to fix it (reshoot) or I don't know how to fix it. Since most comments don't include "Here's what you need to do to fix it" type comments, I rather have more votes to minimize the effect of the DNMC crowd.

Jaded_Housewife

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

08/11/2006 01:58:15 PM · #7

I do think if someones going to vote it would be "best" if they vote the 100% so if they are a low voter it effects all the pictures across the board or if they are a high voter we ALL get voted up a bit. you know? thats my only issue with less than 100% voting but I know it's not possible for most and I respect that. so if someone needed to vote less than 100% in order to do so commenting then i'd prefer the votes I guess. does that make sense?

HBunch

HP PhotoSmart 315

08/11/2006 02:26:32 PM · #8

Tim, I looked through your comments given, have you considered joining the Critique Club? Check it out, if you're interested, send me an email, or create a ticket under HELP/CONTACT/CRITIQUE CLUB.

What is the Critique Club.

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

08/11/2006 02:30:48 PM · #9

i would suggest to anyone wanting to improve their photography to focus more on giving comments than getting them, as well as more on giving comments than to voting. sure, every now and then, you'll get a comment or two that can help you with a particular image, but, for the most part, if you concentrate on really looking at a lot of images indepth and trying to articulate what it is about the image that works or doesn't work, you will learn a lot more a lot faster...

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/11/2006 02:31:52 PM · #10

Originally posted by jkw2466:

Have you considered putting in the title of your entry something like - [looking for comments] or maybe DPC could adopt some lingo like [LFC] in a title when you are more interested in getting a comment than your score. Personally if I saw something like that, and assuming it didn't just mean all 360 entries suddenly appended LFC in the title, I would take the time to leave a comment.

08/11/2006 02:34:51 PM · #11

Originally posted by skiprow:

I agree totally and I've been doing as much commenting as possible. But for the time balance question I presented in my OP, which would you rather receive, votes or comments?

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

08/11/2006 02:41:09 PM · #12

Heather,

Sent you a PM.

Tim

Originally posted by HBunch:

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

08/11/2006 02:51:40 PM · #13

Originally posted by atupdate:

But for the time balance question I presented in my OP, which would you rather receive, votes or comments?

comments...because it means that you are really working at this stuff and not just blasting through a bunch of images.

i look at things a bit differently than most. i think the only way you can really become better is by working at it, and it takes a lot more effort to comment than to vote.

try this: vote your 20%, then start with your lowest vote getters and comment on all them, then go up to your highest and comment on them, going back and forth until you've commented on 100% of what you've voted on. then, if you have time, go and vote on some more.

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

08/11/2006 03:00:10 PM · #14

Originally posted by skiprow:

People mentioned about giving comments as a way to "help" yourself and I agree with that up to a point. For any learning to take place I think you need to receive feedback which is difficult to get in this case unless the person receiving the comment PMs you back. For example, I sometimes I'll see comments that have no basis, i.e. they say poor contrast or OOF when they really meant something else. Unless there is some dialog back and forth nobody is going to learn in that situation. One thing that DOES help from my experience is reading photographer's comments to understand what the photographer was trying to do and also ready OTHER PEOPLE'S comments when they are not the "great job" variety.

This is the primary reason why I have lost interest in writing critiques for the CC. I've only written about 45 or so critiques but almost all of them I didn't feel I got anything out of the exchange. They almost all didn't have anything written in their photographer comments nor did they even acknowledge receving the critique in most cases. When someone leaves me an indepth review/critique of a photo of mine I try to PM them back at least to thank them but also to engage in the discussion of the photograph. That's the only way I have learned through this exchange.

Message edited by author 2006-08-11 15:05:51.

HBunch

HP PhotoSmart 315

08/11/2006 03:02:43 PM · #15

Originally posted by atupdate:

Heather,

Sent you a PM.

Tim

Tim,

Sent you a PM.

Heather

khdoss

Nikon D300

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Nikon

08/11/2006 03:03:20 PM · #16

Comments mean more to me. Even more when they come from someone whose work I admire.

K

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

08/11/2006 03:29:21 PM · #17

Originally posted by HBunch:

Originally posted by atupdate:
Heather,

Sent you a PM.

Tim

Tim,

Sent you a PM.

Heather

I think these two have a "thing".... ;-)

PhantomEWO

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

08/11/2006 03:33:56 PM · #18

If all the comment says is "terrible", "bad", or "what was you thinking" That is a complete waste of time to write and read. If you have something creative or constructive to say if it doesn't meet your standard then a comment is great. If you're just being a "bad" or "what was you thinking" jesrk then vote and go crawl into your hole until the next challenge needs such profpound statements ;)

Now I feel much better, but at least it isn't worthless negative comments with no constructive benefit ;) Bring it on boys and girls ;)

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

08/11/2006 03:52:59 PM · #19

yanko, don, all, sure, i understand where you're coming from both in terms of getting and giving comments.

in terms of getting useless comments, well, i discount those out of hand--those commentors aren't really doing much for themselves or others.

and yes, it does suck not to get feedback when you do bother to give indepth comments. all the same, if you are making the comments for yourself, any response from the recipient is gravy--for the most part.

i just commented on every stop motion entry. i learned a ton. it really helped hammer home some simple concepts that can be easily overlooked while shooting, especially in an active environment. now, if my comments help others, great.

and i have to be realistic here. out of those 211 entries, how many of them are from people where this challenge will be their first and last? how many of them are from people where this will be their last challenge? how many of these comments are going to be completely disregarded? well, if i looked at it like that, it wouldn't even be worth the effort.

lastly, i am human--i know exactly how you feel when you take the time to give a detailed comment on an image where you have no clue who the recipient is, then check back and see that yours is pretty much the only one not getting checked as helpful--no matter that it was more indepth than any of the other comments--it just didn't sing the high praises.

well, that's just the way it is here in dpc-land. and all we can do is keep on pushing ourselves while trying to help others.

Message edited by author 2006-08-11 16:00:21.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

08/11/2006 04:28:48 PM · #20

Thanks for the comment in Stop Motion, Skip. Very much appreciated!

I try to comment on 20% in each challenge I vote on. I will comment on those I like, but generally just to say I like it and why (if I can explain it). I will spend more time on those that I rank lower (5s and 4s) - doesn't mean they'll finish low since my taste may be a lot different than DPC's as a whole in some instances. But at least maybe they'll know why my vote wasn't a 6, 7, or 8.

How has this helped me? I look at my own shots to see how well balanced they are as far as contrast. I check the sharpness (something I still need to work on, but at least I know I need to work on it). I try to figure out if the composition is pleasing without being unduly influenced by the fact that "I like it that way." In other words, I'm trying to "score" my own work more based on how I've been scoring and commenting on others. I'm quite sure none of my work is ribbon-worthy when I enter it, and I tend to err on the high side (I think it's a 5.8; DPC thinks it's a 5.3) but at least I often know WHY it's only a 5.3 a lot of times.

Comments are good. Votes are a number. % placement in a challenge is more important to me than the final score. And in the end, I just try for the "over" on the "over/under 50%". I will admit I have entered one or two shots that I figured would be "under".... :-)

cerebis

Canon EOS-20D

Sigma 28-70mm f/2.8 EX DG for Canon

08/12/2006 01:47:05 PM · #21

I just finished voting in the latest Transportation challenge, and I commented on 7 %, which equated to 19 images, and voted on 100%. (Cos I'm in work and I am avoiding doing anything productive)

In terms of the comments I give, I try to be contructive, but I admit to being a bit cowardly about it. I find myself only commenting when I score somebody above 5 at least. I only noticed doing it today when I went back to comment on some of the stop motion challenges, I actually changed one of my votes by upping it one point, after giving the comment.

Even though I know the photographer isnt going to have my comment and the score I gave the picture in front of them, I still do it.

Perhaps its to soften the blow, but no, because my critique is seldom criticism, rather its maybe to do with the way I score.

When a challenge has a set, restrictive them, such as the transportation one, there is more than just the quality of the photograph itself to consider. There is also whether it actually matches the criteria of the challenge, how similar it is to the other entries, whether it was set up or captured on the spur of the moment, and much more. In isolation, any photo in a themed challenge would likely get a different score if I were asked to judge it in isolation, and the comment would likely be different also.

Jaded_Housewife