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 07/31/2006 01:59:07 PM · #26
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
regular flash, straight on (portrait mode I mean)


same thing, time, etc with lightsphere on the flash


Note the subject is about 6 inches from the wall so this will enhance any shadowing.

Since everyone asks about ceilings, I went outside for a test shot - NO ceiling, just the night sky above me. Shot one is the flash head pointed straight up, second is same set up with the LS installed.


I have a stofen - I'll have to give it a comparison shot - what's up with teh color shift compared to bare flash in your shots?


C'mon Prof...how about a real test? IE how about posting the test I asked for? It's easy enough to do. All these diverse and unrelated examples do is confuse the issue. You've got the Lightsphere...why not do the test? Many of us would be interested.

As for the color shift, I'm not sure. I used auto w/b and shot in small jpg with no editing other than resizing. I am surmising that all the light modifiers used shifted the color balance toward the warm side. I'm not sure how the Rebel handles auto WB when using flash. If it assumes an unfiltered flash (cooler) than that may explain it. another good reason to use raw for critical stuff. FWIW, I see a similar color shift in the two shots you posted. It is masked somewhat by the gold wall, but it is there nonetheless.

07/31/2006 06:34:45 PM · #27
Originally posted by jemison:


C'mon Prof...how about a real test? IE how about posting the test I asked for? It's easy enough to do. All these diverse and unrelated examples do is confuse the issue. You've got the Lightsphere...why not do the test? Many of us would be interested.

As for the color shift, I'm not sure. I used auto w/b and shot in small jpg with no editing other than resizing. I am surmising that all the light modifiers used shifted the color balance toward the warm side. I'm not sure how the Rebel handles auto WB when using flash. If it assumes an unfiltered flash (cooler) than that may explain it. another good reason to use raw for critical stuff. FWIW, I see a similar color shift in the two shots you posted. It is masked somewhat by the gold wall, but it is there nonetheless.


Real test? The one you asked for? Without reading every post in the thread, what do you mean? unless I have all the modifiers to test back to back to back i can't perform a test that would be comparable to your test - different flash, camera, rooms, etc. and the LS is NOT to be 'pointed at' the subject, it is designed to bounce, or at least be aimed to appear to be bouncing the light.

My kid test was simple - i had him stand still, i took a shot, installed the LS according the instructions, and took a shot. The harsh shadow of him on the wall was significantly reduced by the LS. The room has white ceiling in a 9' tall room, but i was sitting on the sofa for both shots. Since everyone often says the LS just bounces the light off the ceiling, the second test is to show that is NOT true at all - the LS instructions tell you to leave the dome off under normal circumstances and to intsall it in low ceiling rooms.

I have found all the diffusers work to some extent, depending on the circumstances. Some shift colors, a little or a lot and I don't like that at all. The omnibounce I have seems to make direct flash a bit less harsh, but it's useless outdoors for fill flash as it screws up the color/ WB.

Message edited by author 2006-07-31 18:36:31.
 07/31/2006 06:35:58 PM · #28
bump. I'm trying not to jump to any conclusions, but aren't there any Lightsphere users here willing to step up to the plate, do the test and post the result? That alone is making me wonder if it is really worth the money.

"Batter up?"
 07/31/2006 06:59:21 PM · #29
I am at work right now but if I get a little time this evening I will try your setup. I have the "Cloud" model of the LightSphere not the "Clear"

Was there any ambient light in your set up? Was the light bulb your only light source?
 07/31/2006 11:09:14 PM · #30
Prof. You don't need to read all the posts in this thread. Just the first one.

I too would really like to see what you could get from the test.

Your kid shots are quite similar to the test, but there are some subtle differences that are likely to show up with a bit more precise setup such as the light bulb.
 07/31/2006 11:17:31 PM · #31
Originally posted by jemison:
[quote=Prof_Fate] regular flash, straight on (portrait mode I mean)


same thing, time, etc with lightsphere on the flash



I'm just curious as to whether the exposure changed on the second one.

The first one looks like the flash is the main source of light due to a high shutter speed (he appears "frozen in time"). The second one looks like a slow shutter speed (a bit of subject blur) and the lighting appears to be more of a fill flash rather than main light (do you see the shadows below the eyes and lips? they show the main light source to be above the boy's head)

So I don't think this is entirely LS diffusion. But rather, a change in exposure which might be revealed by looking at the EXIF data.

07/31/2006 11:28:07 PM · #32
Both are ISO 100, 1/60 at f1.8 with the canon 50 1.8 lens, exp comp +2 (not sure why on the exp comp, but that's what the exif reads)
 07/31/2006 11:31:24 PM · #33
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Both are ISO 100, 1/60 at f1.8 with the canon 50 1.8 lens, exp comp +2 (not sure why on the exp comp, but that's what the exif reads)


Interesting... does the EXIF data say anything about the flash exposure?

I wonder if using the LS changed luminosity calculations sufficient that the flash didn't pump out as much light?

Edit: I think it's called Flash Bias.

Message edited by author 2006-07-31 23:34:04.
 07/31/2006 11:37:23 PM · #34
I may be the lone dissenter on the Lightsphere. I bought it for a wedding I was shooting. It works fine if you aren't shooting a lot of pictures. I shot about 90 images when my flash overheated. I took the lightsphere off and couldn't touch the flash. It took 15 minutes before my flash would start working properly again.
First, blamed it on the flash.
At the reception I hit about 90 images and again overheated the flash. Dumped the lightsphere and shot another 160 without a problem.
Again, big praises for a few shots but not for bulk shooting.

08/01/2006 12:48:13 AM · #35
Originally posted by cislander:
I may be the lone dissenter on the Lightsphere. I bought it for a wedding I was shooting. It works fine if you aren't shooting a lot of pictures. I shot about 90 images when my flash overheated. I took the lightsphere off and couldn't touch the flash. It took 15 minutes before my flash would start working properly again.
First, blamed it on the flash.
At the reception I hit about 90 images and again overheated the flash. Dumped the lightsphere and shot another 160 without a problem.
Again, big praises for a few shots but not for bulk shooting.


I personally don't have the an LS but have made small talk with three different Event Shooters (Hotel Renovation Party, Restaurant Grand Opening, and another reception) that had an LS on their flash. Each had a similar story as yours, and not getting through a 3-4 hour event.

Convinced me that for the money to stick with my Omnibounce...
 08/01/2006 09:40:26 AM · #36
any diffuser will 'eat' a stop of light or more. i think the LS may be harder than other diffuers in that respect, so you're asking the flash to put out more light and it will get hotter. I've not shot that much with the LS on to have experienced it myself.
 08/01/2006 11:30:59 AM · #37
Originally posted by qmdi:
I am at work right now but if I get a little time this evening I will try your setup. I have the "Cloud" model of the LightSphere not the "Clear"

Was there any ambient light in your set up? Was the light bulb your only light source?


Thanks for volunteering!

The flash unit was basically my only light source (see following) The lightbulb was unlit (as stated in the original post). There was a very low level of ambient light, approx 5 stops below that provided by the flash unit - room windows shuttered with a single 60watt lamp w/shade in the background.
 08/01/2006 11:33:14 AM · #38
Originally posted by dwterry:
Originally posted by jemison:
[quote=Prof_Fate] regular flash, straight on (portrait mode I mean)


same thing, time, etc with lightsphere on the flash



I'm just curious as to whether the exposure changed on the second one.

The first one looks like the flash is the main source of light due to a high shutter speed (he appears "frozen in time"). The second one looks like a slow shutter speed (a bit of subject blur) and the lighting appears to be more of a fill flash rather than main light (do you see the shadows below the eyes and lips? they show the main light source to be above the boy's head)

So I don't think this is entirely LS diffusion. But rather, a change in exposure which might be revealed by looking at the EXIF data.


I agree, which is the reason that I asked for Manual exposure, ISO100 f/11 1/100sec.
 08/01/2006 11:39:59 AM · #39
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
any diffuser will 'eat' a stop of light or more. i think the LS may be harder than other diffuers in that respect, so you're asking the flash to put out more light and it will get hotter. I've not shot that much with the LS on to have experienced it myself.


Yes. Testing after this post began showed the following:

Stofen and LumiquestSoftbox - minus 1 2/3 stops
Mystery Mod - minus 2 1/3 stops

Message edited by author 2006-08-01 11:43:46.
 08/02/2006 09:53:05 AM · #40
I'm still watching this too and don't want to see it die so...

bump
 08/02/2006 09:55:09 AM · #41
Me 2. I'm dying to know how the lightsphere compares on the same test (which I think is actually a pretty good one) and also to know the specifics of the "mystery modifier" which seemed to provide the best results.
 08/02/2006 09:58:43 AM · #42
Originally posted by BradP:
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by BradP:
A Ping Pong ball over the flash is my guess - they work AWESOME!


cool! teach me!

Nothing more than taking a Ping Pong ball, cutting an opening to allow it to slip over the flash head/bulb area, and bingo.

How to get great Images from a Point and Shoot.


and
Ping-pong ball diffuser


Any before and after shots with this set up? I would be really interested in seeing.
 08/02/2006 02:13:59 PM · #43
Originally posted by jemison:
Originally posted by qmdi:
I am at work right now but if I get a little time this evening I will try your setup. I have the "Cloud" model of the LightSphere not the "Clear"

Was there any ambient light in your set up? Was the light bulb your only light source?


Thanks for volunteering!

The flash unit was basically my only light source (see following) The lightbulb was unlit (as stated in the original post). There was a very low level of ambient light, approx 5 stops below that provided by the flash unit - room windows shuttered with a single 60watt lamp w/shade in the background.


Sorry, I did not get a chance to do the setup yet. However, I will do it as soon as I get a chance. I'm curious to see the results myself.

08/02/2006 11:27:44 PM · #44
I don't know if anyone wants to see a "non-conforming test", but I do have a lightsphere - well, Karma does - and I've done a similar test just for my own interest. Exposure settings don't match, but these were done in a basically dark room with manual focus and manual exposure at the indicated settings... The center of the lamp is 6" from the wall. Shots are resized only. No exposure compensation or any other adjustments. I see a tremendous difference in shadows, but I also see that my flash is too weak to ever completely compensage for being turned vertical AND being totally diffused. It's a Bower, by the way, on the 300D. I'm sure it maxed out and just couldn't completely expose correctly.



08/03/2006 12:19:11 AM · #45
:-)

Message edited by author 2006-08-03 11:47:39.
 08/03/2006 02:00:32 AM · #46
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
I hope this is what you are after.


Actually, it's not. Surely you have a lamp with a bare bulb or that you can remove the shade from, don't you? Please read the original post.

Thanks for trying, but as with other examples that don't mimic the original setup, they really just muddy the waters.
 08/03/2006 02:01:46 AM · #47
Originally posted by nards656:
I don't know if anyone wants to see a "non-conforming test", but I do have a lightsphere - well, Karma does - and I've done a similar test just for my own interest. Exposure settings don't match, but these were done in a basically dark room with manual focus and manual exposure at the indicated settings... The center of the lamp is 6" from the wall. Shots are resized only. No exposure compensation or any other adjustments. I see a tremendous difference in shadows, but I also see that my flash is too weak to ever completely compensage for being turned vertical AND being totally diffused. It's a Bower, by the way, on the 300D. I'm sure it maxed out and just couldn't completely expose correctly.



See my reply above to thegrandwazoo.
 08/03/2006 02:06:09 AM · #48
:-)

Message edited by author 2006-08-03 11:47:20.
 08/03/2006 02:55:08 AM · #49
Well I did the best I could to create the test situation you asked for. It was all measured out to the inch like you asked.

I'm shooting with a Nikon D70 - so shot at ISO 200 but then used 1/50 to compensate. I did not have a totally plain white wall so I shot against an unpainted piece of drywall (light grey).

You said point the flash directly at the bulb - but that's not how you're supposed to use the lightsphere so I pointed it up with the dome on.

Didn't do anything to the photo but scale it down.

You didn't say anything about ambient light so I shot in almost complete darkness.

Flash used was an sb600.



Hope this helps.

Message edited by author 2006-08-03 02:58:37.
 08/03/2006 03:16:15 AM · #50
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by jemison:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
I hope this is what you are after.


Actually, it's not. Surely you have a lamp with a bare bulb or that you can remove the shade from, don't you? Please read the original post.

Thanks for trying, but as with other examples that don't mimic the original setup, they really just muddy the waters.


Sorry to muddy the waters. Hell it's only what 50 bucks buy one and try it.


Erick, Sorry if I offended you. I have simply asked for a controlled test. It was in the first message and repeated several times. Since you have obviously already spent your $50 it's no skin off your back. Why should I waste mine on a possibly inferior product. Sure, the Lightsphere is all the rage right now, but I've been around long enough to have seen lots of fads that are nothing more than that. All I am asking is to be shown that it is as good as people say it is and better than what I've got. Why throw away the money?

It is really perplexing to see that not a single owner of a Lightsphere is willing to follow the very simple criteria and post the results. That tends to make some of us old farts suspicious as heck.

Who knows...I may just have to order one (sight unseen, of course, since they're only available via internet). If it's lousy I could probably sell it for nearly what I paid to some sucker who just pays attention to the hype. But one of the reasons I hang on this site is to avoid having to do stuff like that.

Edit: This was posted before I had read and seen Dan (Megatherian)'s posted results.

Message edited by author 2006-08-03 03:26:43.
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