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07/14/2006 03:57:21 PM · #26 |
Thought that I heard on the news today that a temporay halt to the bombing of the airport was negotiated so that one runway could be repaired. Several flights left and then Israel destroyed the runway again as per the negotiation guidlines.
If this is true, then it signifies a slightly different mindset then what is being purported here.
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07/14/2006 04:01:28 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Thought that I heard on the news today that a temporay halt to the bombing of the airport was negotiated so that one runway could be repaired. Several flights left and then Israel destroyed the runway again as per the negotiation guidlines.
If this is true, then it signifies a slightly different mindset then what is being purported here. |
Perhaps for the Americans to fly out. "Destroyed again as per negotiation guidelines?" Yeah, lebanon negotiated with Israel to repair the runway so that they can destroy it again.
How is this post supposed to be different than other posts? |
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07/14/2006 04:02:40 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Thought that I heard on the news today that a temporay halt to the bombing of the airport was negotiated so that one runway could be repaired. Several flights left and then Israel destroyed the runway again as per the negotiation guidlines.
If this is true, then it signifies a slightly different mindset then what is being purported here. |
Nope.. can't find anything on that... in fact all I can find seems to point to the opposite being true.
The death toll in three days of fighting rose to 73 killed in Lebanon almost all civilians, including five killed in strikes Friday and 12 in Israel, including four killed in rocket attacks. The violence sent shock waves through a region already traumatized by the ongoing battles in the Gaza Strip between Israel and Hamas.
Linky
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07/14/2006 04:04:59 PM · #29 |
Hizballah gets supplies from Syria, Iran and North Korea via truck, cargo ships and airplane. Since Lebanon will do nothing to stop the terrorists from re-supplying, I consider the roads, bridges and airport military targets.
I do not think it is okay to let terrorists re-supply with more rockets so they can randomly launch them into civilian neighborhoods. I̢۪d rather see a runway and a bridge destroyed then a 3 year old splattered with a rocket while playing in his yard.
Yes it sucks for Lebanon, but that is the price you pay to allow terrorist operate in your country and do nothing about it. I think this is a great message to any other country that harbors terrorist organizations.
This is just all my opinion though and you are free to disagree with me if you chose.
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07/14/2006 04:08:43 PM · #30 |
No, I am quite certain that I heard a snippet that specifically stated that a negotiation had halted the runway bombings so that onerunway could be repaired. After several planes left (government officials I believe)then Israel destroyed the repaired runway.
I may have the wrong country, but I'm certain that I heard about an airport bombing negotiation and re-destruction.
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07/14/2006 04:19:57 PM · #31 |
Posted an hour ago by ABC News dated July 14th, 2006
Warplanes again smashed runways at Beirut's airport with hours of airstrikes, trying to render it unusable, and destroyed mountain bridges on the main highway to Syria. Warships blockaded Lebanon's ports for a second day.
Smoke drifted over the capital after strikes exploded fuel tanks at one of Beirut's two main power stations, gradually escalating the damage to Lebanon's key infrastructure. Apartment buildings were shattered by strikes in south Beirut.
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07/14/2006 04:25:23 PM · #32 |
I have not found it either in print. Certainly appreciate your efforts to confirm my "understanding". I believe the news will have it over the next couple of days. I don't believe that I am the only one who heard this.
Of course, I am old...
...maybe I'll try that "Fair & Balanced" site to see if they report a "different" set of "facts".
Message edited by author 2006-07-14 16:28:32.
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07/14/2006 04:28:06 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Flash:
I have not found it either in print. Certainly appreciate your efforts to confirm my "understanding". I believe the news will have it over the next couple of days. I don't believe that I am the only one who heard this.
Of course, I am old... |
Perhaps they were hoping to negotiate some type of arrangement?
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07/14/2006 04:31:01 PM · #34 |
Just so ya'll know...
My daughter Jessica got home from Beirut 5 weeks ago. She had been going to school at the American University of Beirut since last Sept.
She originally was going to stay there until the end of July before coming home, but I was able to line her up a job for part of the summer where I work. I am SO HAPPY she came home early.
Anyway, she has been able to explain a LOT about how things work in Lebanon to me since she came back. The government of Lebanon does not have the resources to disarm Hizballah even if they had the will, which is debatable. They provide zero resources to the Palestinians living in the camps in the south, but they don't kick them out of the country because there is no place for them to go.
This is NOT an aggression by the Lebanese people against Israel. They are caught in the cross-fire just as much is the innocent Israelis that are finding rockets raining down on there heads.
I'm afraid that this country is being set back economically and politically before it even gets a chance to get itself established.
Too bad. Mostly nice people there, and a beautiful land.
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07/14/2006 04:49:05 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
If it were my county... I would choose not to be part of a country that supported terrorism and hate such as hizballah. I'd either fight or leave. Sometimes you have to stand up for what you think is right. |
Where were you in the 1980s? The IRA's head office for its money raising arm was based in New York and received millions from Americans. Millions that were used to train terrorists who carried out bombing campaigns targetting civilians in the UK. The US government did nothing about it.
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07/14/2006 04:53:34 PM · #36 |
For all of you who have never been to Israel (like most US citizens) I offer the following comparison ... say the relatives of all those illegal Mexicans suddently decide they're tired of their loved-ones being exploited and treated as non-citizens, and lob a couple of rockets into San Diego. Every day. For a year or two.
Does anyone remotely consider that the Bush administration would tolerate something like that? Remember, it wasn't the government of Afghanistan which took out the Twin Towers, but we took them out nonetheless.
Israel is a tiny place -- go look at a map -- and if there was ever something which constitutes a "miracle," it's that so much remains undestroyed after some 4000 years of constant warfare.
Of course, I also find that the most convincing evidence against the extistence of a God or Holy Father or whatever, since otherwise this mutual fratricide would have been stopped long ago, and the children of Abraham -- the descendents of Isaac and Ishmael -- would have been put on a long time-out ...
Message edited by author 2006-07-14 16:55:45. |
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07/14/2006 04:55:11 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by shanksware:
This is NOT an aggression by the Lebanese people against Israel. They are caught in the cross-fire just as much is the innocent Israelis that are finding rockets raining down on there heads.
I'm afraid that this country is being set back economically and politically before it even gets a chance to get itself established.
Too bad. Mostly nice people there, and a beautiful land. |
Thank you, that's the point I have been trying to make since this morning based on what my boss told me (who also just came back earlier this week).
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07/15/2006 08:12:19 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
For all of you who have never been to Israel (like most US citizens) I offer the following comparison ... say the relatives of all those illegal Mexicans suddently decide they're tired of their loved-ones being exploited and treated as non-citizens, and lob a couple of rockets into San Diego. Every day. For a year or two.
Does anyone remotely consider that the Bush administration would tolerate something like that? Remember, it wasn't the government of Afghanistan which took out the Twin Towers, but we took them out nonetheless.
Israel is a tiny place -- go look at a map -- and if there was ever something which constitutes a "miracle," it's that so much remains undestroyed after some 4000 years of constant warfare |
You overlook that for this comparison to be at all accurate, there would have to have been four decades history of the US invading and seizing Mexican land, preventing Mexican people from working in occupied territories, refusing to acknowledge their leadership or their elected leaders, bulldozing Mexican homes, and killing 20 or 30 Mexicans for every American killed.
Not much of Palestine remains undestroyed. Lebanon is in the process of being destroyed. Israel has not persisted for 4000 years - the many populations and peoples who have occupied that land have come and gone.
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07/15/2006 08:21:12 AM · #39 |
| What I think most people are missing is that while all Lebanese are "terrorists" per say, they do not object to Hezbollah's actions, and in fact support them. The largest single group in Lebanon is the Shiite Muslims, and almost all of them support Hezbollah. When you have a country and culture the supports, harbors, and will not take any action to stop terrorists, they are part of the problem. Israel bombing out airports, and roads, and bridges, is an attempt to isolate them and try to change the general attitude towards the terrorists. |
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07/15/2006 08:42:29 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by Palmetto_Pixels:
Posted an hour ago by ABC News dated July 14th, 2006
Warplanes again smashed runways at Beirut's airport with hours of airstrikes, trying to render it unusable, and destroyed mountain bridges on the main highway to Syria. Warships blockaded Lebanon's ports for a second day.
Smoke drifted over the capital after strikes exploded fuel tanks at one of Beirut's two main power stations, gradually escalating the damage to Lebanon's key infrastructure. Apartment buildings were shattered by strikes in south Beirut.
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And I promise you, Israel did not say it's finaly words on the matter just yet!
I woke up this morning into Katyusha rockets around the city of Tiberius and the sea of Gallilee. An area full with visitors, Israelies and international tourists. It doesn't seem like anyone Lebanon or Syria's governments even care for this.
As Israel is trying to avoid hurting civillants at almost any cost, Hizbollah doesn't seem to worry about it. Heating Israely or tourist civils seem to be the same for them as heating soldiers.
For that matter - an Irani rocket heat an Israeli navy ship last night. 4 soldiers are missing, probably dead. May their soul rest in peace.
However, those who sent the rocket, sent another one that was suppose to heat the ship. Unfortunately, they heat an egyptian civil boat. Did anyone cared for that? Nasserallah, the hizbollah spokesman was happy enough to tell the world about heating the Israeli ship. Only thing he had to say about the egyptian ship was... "ooops"... |
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07/15/2006 09:08:36 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by Jinjit:
As Israel is trying to avoid hurting civillants at almost any cost, Hizbollah doesn't seem to worry about it. |
An interesting perspective - demonstrates the power of the media.
If a rocket is launched at a town or city there will be civilian casualties. That's a fact.
If either side want to avoid hurting civilians 'at any cost', then the most logical solution is to stop firing missiles at them.
Message edited by author 2006-07-15 09:10:25. |
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07/15/2006 09:15:37 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Israel is a tiny place -- go look at a map -- and if there was ever something which constitutes a "miracle," it's that so much remains undestroyed after some 4000 years of constant warfare. |
Israel spends about 10 billion dollars a year on their military. Lebanon spends 540 million. Now this war isn't Israel vs. Lenabon. It's Israel vs. the terrorists that are living there. The missiles the terrorists are shooting into Israel were built by Iran.
Like I said in the beginning, Israel gets my respect for standing up for themselves. Sure, some innocent civilians are going to get killed. Unfortunately, that's what happens in wars. It's not nice, it's not right, but it's the way things are.
Other countries need to stay out of it. If they do get involved, I think that will involve even more countries...and before you know it, some big dog is going to have to step in and put an end to it all (maybe the US)? Then North Korea will get sick of the US and start attacking them on foreign soil.
Anyway, whoever drops the big bomb first wins.
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07/15/2006 09:41:56 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by Jinjit:
As Israel is trying to avoid hurting civillants at almost any cost, Hizbollah doesn't seem to worry about it. |
An interesting perspective - demonstrates the power of the media.
If a rocket is launched at a town or city there will be civilian casualties. That's a fact.
If either side want to avoid hurting civilians 'at any cost', then the most logical solution is to stop firing missiles at them. |
While this is mostly true, there is a very important difference in the technology available to the Israelis and the Hizbollah. The Israeli military has advanced weaponry that pretty much hits its target (take the bombing of the Hizbollah leaders home in Southern Lebanon yesterday for example). The Hizbollah weaponry is a little more primitive and just gets launched in the general direction of Israeli targets (thus potentially harming more civilians).
No matter how you slice it, it's not a pretty picture, and I agree... the US should stay out of it. We should advise Israel to minimize civilian casualties and to stay out of Beirut and Northern Lebanon. |
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07/15/2006 10:31:20 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by Palmetto_Pixels:
[quote=jhonan] [quote=Jinjit]We should advise Israel to minimize civilian casualties and to stay out of Beirut and Northern Lebanon. |
We should advise Israel to keep going and only stop when they've reached India.
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07/15/2006 11:33:40 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by legalbeagle:
You overlook that for this comparison to be at all accurate, there would have to have been four decades history of the US invading and seizing Mexican land, preventing Mexican people from working in occupied territories, refusing to acknowledge their leadership or their elected leaders, bulldozing Mexican homes, and killing 20 or 30 Mexicans for every American killed. |
How do you think The US "acquired" California, Texas. Arizona, and "New" Mexico? |
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07/15/2006 11:50:40 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by Jinjit:
I woke up this morning into Katyusha rockets around the city of Tiberius and the sea of Gallilee. An area full with visitors, Israelies and international tourists. It doesn't seem like anyone Lebanon or Syria's governments even care for this. |
There are 20k Americans and 10k UK citizens in Lebanon - are the Israeli bombs more discriminating in which nationality civilians they kill?
Originally posted by jinjit:
As Israel is trying to avoid hurting civillants at almost any cost, Hizbollah doesn't seem to worry about it. |
Then why are there a hundred or so Lebanese civilian casualties, and only a handful of Israeli civilian casualties?
Originally posted by Jinjit:
For that matter - an Irani rocket heat an Israeli navy ship last night. 4 soldiers are missing, probably dead. May their soul rest in peace. ...Did anyone cared for that? |
Nor did I hear any Israeli apologies for the family of 9 that they killed with a misguided rocket sent in the first wave of bombing.
I am not trying to defend the actions of Hizbollah in firing rockets indiscriminately or at civilian targets. However, I think that the Israeli response is grossly disproportionate. The blame for the dispute cannot be cast solely at Hizbollah or Lebanon (or for that matter Israel).
The lesson that has been repeatedly spread by Israeli foreign policy for the last 30 years is one of violence and aggression. Israel is not teaching anyone a lesson, other than that Israel cannot be negotiated with - it only respects violence. And with every death it causes there are created another half dozen converts to the cause that will deliver that violence to it.
Message edited by author 2006-07-15 11:51:00.
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07/15/2006 12:03:02 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by legalbeagle:
You overlook that for this comparison to be at all accurate, there would have to have been four decades history of the US invading and seizing Mexican land, preventing Mexican people from working in occupied territories, refusing to acknowledge their leadership or their elected leaders, bulldozing Mexican homes, and killing 20 or 30 Mexicans for every American killed. |
How do you think The US "acquired" California, Texas. Arizona, and "New" Mexico? |
In a different social era.
If you were to reverse your example and equate Mexico with Israel (ie looking at them as the historically disposessed), on your analysis, Mexicans should have every right to seize back the land they claim ws taken from their ancestors, aggressively impose their authority on the Americans who live there, bulldoze their homes, impose martial law, prevent them access to jobs or freedom of movement. If any neighbouring American state were to object to the occupation of US land, or failed to prevent local militia reacting to the seizure, then Mexico should be entitled to launch an all out attack on those states, demolishing their infrastructure, destroy government buildings, carry out capture and assasination missions against the duly elected US leadership and kill a dozen civilians or more for every Mexican death.
Message edited by author 2006-07-15 12:04:12.
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07/15/2006 12:04:50 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
Originally posted by Palmetto_Pixels:
[quote=jhonan] [quote=Jinjit]We should advise Israel to minimize civilian casualties and to stay out of Beirut and Northern Lebanon. |
We should advise Israel to keep going and only stop when they've reached India. |
Oh yes, you are histerically funny.
You are a beautiful example of what we like to call here - the dumb american. Who cares for nothing but his own comfortability.
I'm still holding my stomach laughing.
Not.
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07/15/2006 12:07:01 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by legalbeagle:
I am not trying to defend the actions of Hizbollah in firing rockets indiscriminately or at civilian targets. However, I think that the Israeli response is grossly disproportionate. The blame for the dispute cannot be cast solely at Hizbollah or Lebanon (or for that matter Israel).
The lesson that has been repeatedly spread by Israeli foreign policy for the last 30 years is one of violence and aggression. Israel is not teaching anyone a lesson, other than that Israel cannot be negotiated with - it only respects violence. And with every death it causes there are created another half dozen converts to the cause that will deliver that violence to it. |
1. What would you consider a "proportionate response" to an unprovoked incursion into your territory and the killing and kidnapping of some soldiers? To daily bombings over a period of some months or years?
2. Which party has always called for the total destuction of the other?
Regardless of any current back and forth, it is the stated "policy" of the Arab states/factions to destroy Israel; it is not Israel's policy to eliminate the only Islamic state in the world.
If the Lebanese, the Syrians, and the Palestinians would join Egypt and Jordan as recognizing the right of the State of Israel to exist at all, it should be possible to re-establish some reasonable borders and live in peace. Unfortunately, this basic premise is apparently anethema to these states/factions, meaning Israel will constantly be defending itself from the countries which completely surround it. |
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07/15/2006 12:12:00 PM · #50 |
BTW: A do not approve of any of these actions -- I am a registered pacifist* and opposed to the use of violence to coerce change.
I just think that, in general, it has been the Arab states who have instigated the violence, and the Israelis have been the respondents.
*I was granted Contientious Objector status by the Selective Service System (Draft Board) in 1972; my status is now 4W, having completed two years of alternative service en lieu of military induction. |
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