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07/03/2006 09:20:00 AM · #76 |
| sorry Blemt, I don't mean to bash anyone it's a good conversation I'm just asking for people to think outside of the box. |
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07/03/2006 09:25:46 AM · #77 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Lance regained all his weight after his bout with cancer. I do not think of chemo for testicular cancer to be particularly "brutal", but I will claim only a passing knowledge here.
The journal article in Journal of Applied Physiology, where a lot of this data comes from, was seriously called into question by colleagues with doubts to its veracity.
This is just the skeptic in me, always champing at the bit, nothing against Lance. |
Hey, Doc, just one thing... Lance's cancer was not simply testicular. It spread very rapidly very soon after it was discovered. It even caused brain lesions; not sure whether you med types would call it "brain cancer", but it was a much more aggressive thing than just testicular cancer. I think that's why his treatments were VERY aggressive. |
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07/03/2006 10:35:11 AM · #78 |
Originally posted by PeterC:
It's a big shame so much doubt is thrown over one of the purest and simplist man against man sports. |
Say what? No individual can survive and make it to the top in big-time cycling; it's an extremely complex team sport, as lance would be the first to affirm.
A "pure, simple, man-against-man sport" would be tennis, to name one example...
R.
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07/03/2006 10:40:46 AM · #79 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by PeterC:
It's a big shame so much doubt is thrown over one of the purest and simplist man against man sports. |
Say what? No individual can survive and make it to the top in big-time cycling; it's an extremely complex team sport, as lance would be the first to affirm.
A "pure, simple, man-against-man sport" would be tennis, to name one example...
R. |
Definately a team sport, but when it came to it, Lance was on his own for miles in a lot of the mountain stages. |
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07/03/2006 10:43:10 AM · #80 |
Well blemt, if the rules say you cannot use epi during the race when you had a bee sting and are having an allergic reaction, then I agree the rules are too strict and sorta silly.
Epi has a half-life in minutes so it's not gonna stick around and screw up testing.
nards656, yes, we would still call that testicular cancer. Just testicular cancer with metastases. I really don't know what regimen he underwent, so I'm talking out of my butt. What I CAN tell you is there certainly isn't a conventional wisdom that testicular cancer is "one of the bad ones". |
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07/03/2006 10:50:41 AM · #81 |
Originally posted by kyebosh:
Definately a team sport, but when it came to it, Lance was on his own for miles in a lot of the mountain stages. |
Oh yeah, for sure! In the end, it all comes down to the individual; the part I'm quibbling with is the "pure and simple", because I don't think big-time cycling is "simple" at all. It's an extremely complex interaction between a huge number of people, all of whom need to rely on each other if they are to survive. What boggles my mind, for example, is how FEW crashes there are, considering all those people in such extremely close proximity to each other. Of course, I feel the same way about driving on the freeway :-) It's a miracle any of us survive...
R.
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07/03/2006 10:55:17 AM · #82 |
Originally posted by mario333:
Tell that to Greg Lemon and ask him what he thinks about Lance (by the way Greg is also American and the 1990 Tour de France winner). |
Got Greg's number? |
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07/03/2006 11:12:38 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by blemt:
The testing doesn't care what you are using. It's looking for steroids- not just anabolic.
The rules make little sense unless you've been watching the sport long enought to learn what people have used to gain an edge. Heck, even caffiene is on the banned list. Too much caffiene gives an edge in several different sports. (to be specific you have to be over a specific level of caffiene)
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Sorry to be pedantic, but for the sake of accuracy caffeine is no longer on the WADA list of prohibited substances. Also, testing does not simply look for 'steroids'. Anabolic agents are in a different class to glucocorticosteroids. Anabolics are prohibited in and out of competition. Corticosteroids are permitted out of competition (and in fact even in competition but only at a very low level). This is a significant difference as it means any rider who requires treatment with corticosteroids may withdraw from a race, be treated and then return for another race after treatment.
Q. |
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07/03/2006 11:20:31 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by Qiki:
Originally posted by blemt:
The testing doesn't care what you are using. It's looking for steroids- not just anabolic.
The rules make little sense unless you've been watching the sport long enought to learn what people have used to gain an edge. Heck, even caffiene is on the banned list. Too much caffiene gives an edge in several different sports. (to be specific you have to be over a specific level of caffiene)
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Sorry to be pedantic, but for the sake of accuracy caffeine is no longer on the WADA list of prohibited substances. Also, testing does not simply look for 'steroids'. Anabolic agents are in a different class to glucocorticosteroids. Anabolics are prohibited in and out of competition. Corticosteroids are permitted out of competition (and in fact even in competition but only at a very low level). This is a significant difference as it means any rider who requires treatment with corticosteroids may withdraw from a race, be treated and then return for another race after treatment.
Q. |
So where do you get this? Is it really true about the epinephrine not being able to be used for legitimate reasons? |
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07/03/2006 11:26:02 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by Rikki:
Originally posted by mario333:
Tell that to Greg Lemon and ask him what he thinks about Lance (by the way Greg is also American and the 1990 Tour de France winner). |
Got Greg's number? |
I doubt Greg 'Lemon' would know anything about Lance. :P
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07/03/2006 11:28:28 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by Rikki:
Originally posted by mario333:
Tell that to Greg Lemon and ask him what he thinks about Lance (by the way Greg is also American and the 1990 Tour de France winner). |
Got Greg's number? |
I doubt Greg 'Lemon' would know anything about Lance. :P |
Priceless! |
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07/03/2006 11:34:40 PM · #87 |
Is he that guy they named Loch Lomond after? jejeje�
R.
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07/03/2006 11:39:25 PM · #88 |
Anyway, this is ridiculous. Everybody who wins, cheats. That's obvious, right? Seems to be the tenor of this thread.
Being painfully candid, speaking for myself, every time I take a ribbon it's immediately after a dose of photosteroids, injected directly into my dominant eye. I admit it. And the more photosteroids you inject, the better you do. Take Rikki, for example; he's both a cyclist AND a multiple ribbon-winner, and you just have to LOOK at his images (preferably with sunglasses on) to see tangible evidence of massive photosteroid abuse.
We don't call it "hyperprocessing" for nothing...
R.
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07/03/2006 11:39:28 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
So where do you get this? Is it really true about the epinephrine not being able to be used for legitimate reasons? |
Hi Doc,
Most of this info is available from WADAs website, as any athlete would know (which is why I have little sympathy for anyone who tests positive). I have an academic interest in this area which stems from my long term following of sports like cyling and also because I have, in years gone by, worked for pharmaceutical companies that produce quite a few drugs on the prohibited list (anabolics, hGH, insulin...).
As far as I know adrenaline has always been a prohibited substance 'in competition', except in small doses in local anaesthetics etc.
Q. |
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07/03/2006 11:45:00 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Anyway, this is ridiculous. Everybody who wins, cheats. That's obvious, right? Seems to be the tenor of this thread.
Being painfully candid, speaking for myself, every time I take a ribbon it's immediately after a dose of photosteroids, injected directly into my dominant eye. I admit it. And the more photosteroids you inject, the better you do. Take Rikki, for example; he's both a cyclist AND a multiple ribbon-winner, and you just have to LOOK at his images (preferably with sunglasses on) to see tangible evidence of massive photosteroid abuse.
We don't call it "hyperprocessing" for nothing...
R. |
Pssst Bear,
You wanna buy some cheap hPH (human photographic hormone)?
Q. |
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07/03/2006 11:49:05 PM · #91 |
This explains everything. I always wondered why he has gray hairs and his hands are growing out of his head. :P
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07/04/2006 07:22:16 AM · #92 |
Originally posted by Qiki:
Sorry to be pedantic, but for the sake of accuracy caffeine is no longer on the WADA list of prohibited substances.
Q. |
I do stand corrected. It's move onto the Monitored List. This means WADA is checking for levels that indicate abuse patterns. When I was looking at training in Olympic weightlifting, this was something my trainer told me would be tested for in competition.
:) |
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07/04/2006 11:04:46 AM · #93 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by kyebosh:
Definately a team sport, but when it came to it, Lance was on his own for miles in a lot of the mountain stages. |
Oh yeah, for sure! In the end, it all comes down to the individual; the part I'm quibbling with is the "pure and simple", because I don't think big-time cycling is "simple" at all. It's an extremely complex interaction between a huge number of people, all of whom need to rely on each other if they are to survive. What boggles my mind, for example, is how FEW crashes there are, considering all those people in such extremely close proximity to each other. Of course, I feel the same way about driving on the freeway :-) It's a miracle any of us survive...
R. |
Bear
I agree with your coment maybe not my best use of words but my other sporting interests lay in F1, Rallying, and Football (the soccer variety) so you can see that within my reference frame it's pretty straight foward, and my mate who spent some years road racing semi pro in the states was always insisting it came down to how much pain an individual could take (based on the fact that pretty much everybody had trained hard and preparded well) regardless of playing the part of a domestic or team leader either way I love the sport and hate to see scandals tarnishing the image of the sportmen and event |
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