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Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

06/19/2006 06:41:05 PM · #1

I went into a shop today to find out the price of the new Fujifilm F30. Though it is a camera I am considering buying, I am far from making my mind up. No sooner had I asked than the salesman said 'buy it'. The shop wasn't busy as it was close to closing time, so a few salesmen got involved in the discussion and they all seemed very enthusiastic. One even said it is the camera of the year (news to me as I haven't come across any recent announcements). They were very insistent that I buy now as the price would go up at the end of the month (due to decline in the South African exchange rate).

I told them that I had been advised to wait and see what is announced for Photokina (I was told this by another dealer) but they said Fuji won't shoot themselves in the foot by coming out with something better so soon.

Frankly I'm confused. I am really impressed with the sensor in the Fuji F10 (approx same as F30) but haven't found any reviews of F30 yet. And I'm not sure there isn't something better waiting around the corner. I was really looking for a camera with a lens that doesn't come out the front of the camera, but can't find one with decent picture quality. Should I buy or should I wait? I found the salesmen so pushy that I'm wondering whether there was some hidden reason for them wanting to make the sale.

Also with reference to wanting to put filters on my Nikon 8400, the one guy said filters aren't needed for digital any more as you can do it all with the computer. And he insisted that digital infrared is useless. The whole thing just didn't feel right.

06/19/2006 07:02:07 PM · #2

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

Also with reference to wanting to put filters on my Nikon 8400, the one guy said filters aren't needed for digital any more as you can do it all with the computer. And he insisted that digital infrared is useless. The whole thing just didn't feel right.

I can't comment on the F30, because I simply haven't researched it... but those statements tell me he knows absolutely nothing about photography.

fstopopen

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

06/19/2006 07:06:44 PM · #3

you can't make polarization happen in photoshop. never. HAS to be an on camera filter.

drake

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

06/19/2006 07:10:11 PM · #4

Fotomann, that's what's worrying me. This is one of the shops that I've regarded as having staff who do know something about photography. The other one where they seem knowledgeable is the guy who told me to wait until Photokina. They don't stock the smaller Fujis though they could get it for me if I asked them, but I doubt they have too much knowledge about that particular camera.

It's just dawned on me to wonder whether they think because I'm a woman that I don't know too much about cameras and will believe anything they tell me. When I mentioned that I hadn't seen any review yet, the guy says, 'well it's camera of the year and that means more than any review'. I wonder.

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

06/19/2006 07:11:53 PM · #5

Originally posted by fstopopen:

you can't make polarization happen in photoshop. never. HAS to be an on camera filter.

drake

That's what I was thinking too. And I've certainly seen enough good results with infrared here to question that too. And how do you add a close-up filter in photoshop?

BeeCee

Nikon D40

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

06/19/2006 07:12:00 PM · #6

Sounds like there was probably an incentive program going on, either offered by the manufacturer or by the store. Sales=bonus=pushy salesmen.

Strange... searching "fujifilm f30"+"camera of the year" doesn't give anything linking the two... You'd kinda think that would be the sort of thing they'd want to advertise, no?

Message edited by author 2006-06-19 19:14:25.

06/19/2006 07:18:51 PM · #7

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

When I mentioned that I hadn't seen any review yet, the guy says, 'well it's camera of the year and that means more than any review'. I wonder.

I'd have to stop and wonder, myself. Seems a bit pushy to me. He could at least tell you WHO claimed it was "camera of the year".

Anyway, if you think he is looking down on you, because you are a woman and don't know a thing about photography, simply show him these:

That might shut him up... LOL

Message edited by author 2006-06-19 19:20:29.

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

06/19/2006 07:21:09 PM · #8

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Yes. But that camera is so new, it seems most unlikely.

What's really bugging me is that the camera sounds interesting but I don't want to be rushed into anything and it makes the decision that much more difficult.

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

06/19/2006 07:22:08 PM · #9

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
When I mentioned that I hadn't seen any review yet, the guy says, 'well it's camera of the year and that means more than any review'. I wonder.

I'd have to stop and wonder, myself. Seems a bit pushy to me. He could at least tell you WHO claimed it was "camera of the year".

Anyway, if you think he is looking down on you, because you are a woman and don't know a thing about photography, simply show him these:

That might shut him up... LOL

Thanks for the compliment. I just wish there were more like that.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

06/19/2006 07:29:10 PM · #10

You're welcome :-)

The only real review I've found about the F30. Everything else I see is just press releases. I can't link the F30 with "camera of the year" either.

BeeCee

Nikon D40

06/19/2006 07:30:16 PM · #11

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

Originally posted by BeeCee:
Sounds like there was probably an incentive program going on, either offered by the manufacturer or by the store. Sales=bonus=pushy salesmen.

Strange... searching "fujifilm f30"+"camera of the year" doesn't give anything linking the two... You'd kinda think that would be the sort of thing they'd want to advertise, no?

Yes. But that camera is so new, it seems most unlikely.

What's really bugging me is that the camera sounds interesting but I don't want to be rushed into anything and it makes the decision that much more difficult.

That's what I meant; their claim sounds pretty fishy when they appear to be the only ones making it.
Maybe you should let the manager of the store know how you were made to feel and your reasons?

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

06/19/2006 07:38:57 PM · #12

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

Originally posted by BeeCee:
Sounds like there was probably an incentive program going on, either offered by the manufacturer or by the store. Sales=bonus=pushy salesmen.

Strange... searching "fujifilm f30"+"camera of the year" doesn't give anything linking the two... You'd kinda think that would be the sort of thing they'd want to advertise, no?

Yes. But that camera is so new, it seems most unlikely.

What's really bugging me is that the camera sounds interesting but I don't want to be rushed into anything and it makes the decision that much more difficult.

That's what I meant; their claim sounds pretty fishy when they appear to be the only ones making it.
Maybe you should let the manager of the store know how you were made to feel and your reasons?

I'm not really keen to make a fuss. I might need that shop some time and I don't want to alienate the staff. Stupid perhaps, but that's who I am.

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

06/19/2006 07:48:58 PM · #13

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

You're welcome :-)

The only real review I've found about the F30. Everything else I see is just press releases. I can't link the F30 with "camera of the year" either.

Thanks. I'm working through this review. What I've read so far doesn't sound too bad.

Prof_Fate

06/19/2006 09:26:42 PM · #14

things they said that i'd be a bit leary of...

price is going up...electronics prices only go down.
nothing better coming - there is always something better coming in electronics.

Sounds like they were pressuring you to buy now.

zxaar

06/19/2006 09:39:09 PM · #15

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

price is going up...electronics prices only go down.

This one thing, i wish i could explain to my wife. I tried many times, but women think differently.

eschelar

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

06/19/2006 09:49:11 PM · #16

Looks like a decent little P&S camera...

As to 'Camera of the Year', that's like saying 'Car of the Year'.

It's usually a special award or label given a camera by some photo review group, or magazine...

You will often hear things like 'Auto Trader's Car of the Year' or 'Popular Photography Magazine's Camera of the Year'....

And, like any review, it is subject to opinions. For example, I've read a handful of reviews by Popular Photography magazine that have basically destroyed my trust in their review staff's ability to give an honest and fair assessment of things... If they called something 'Camera of the Year', I would give that about as much weight as "Bob the Janitor" says 'Camera of the Year'.

They could have meant 'In-House Camera of the Year' for all we know.

Give me a break. Those guys were talking out their bum bums and they know it...

Give it some time.... the South African currency MIGHT take a bad turn, but the price of the camera will still probably come down a bit... At the very least, it will even things out...

If you want the skinny on it, Phil Askey usually has a good say at DPReview.com... I usually wait for him to check things out...

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

06/19/2006 09:49:27 PM · #17

Originally posted by zxaar:

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

price is going up...electronics prices only go down.

This one thing, i wish i could explain to my wife. I tried many times, but women think differently.

Generally speaking this is true. But exchange rates can make a difference and our currency has been performing badly lately. So it may be true.

It's the something better part I'm concerned about. If Fuji have such a good sensor in a small compact, aren't they likely to put it into better cameras soon? It may be worth waiting.

eschelar

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

06/19/2006 10:16:10 PM · #18

Highly unlikely Gina... this type of sensor is VERY small compared with 'better' cameras... This form factor is probably it for that type of sensor.

Don't look for a DSLR with Fuji's special CCD in it any time soon... They had a tough enough time with their previous DSLR's.

blemt

Nikon D70

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Nikon

06/19/2006 10:35:40 PM · #19

Of course they want you to buy now. It's commission sales. That's part of the job. :)

With that said, keep in mind there are multiple photographic publications that have "camera of the year". This is a list of the awards that Fuji has on it's website. It's easy enough to misquote this as camera of the year.

Here's the bottom line from someone who works camera sales.

1) There is ALWAYS something better down the line in the world of compact cameras.

2) If you do not want to be rushed, do not walk into a store at close. :) We are all human, and at the end of the day want to get home. :)

3) Every camera company offers incentives on their cameras. Fuji is no exception. Those incentives plus any commission from that sale are potentially the only thing your sales person gets for the time they spend with you. Generally these incentives are between 3 and 6 dollars US.

4) Every sales person has an off day. I've reccomended cameras I don't like because the customer comes in and tells me that's what they want. It's not often, but it happens to the best of us.

Your best bet is to do your homework, and read NEGATIVE reviews on the cameras you are looking at. Understand what people dislike about the camera. If the things folks do not like don't bug you, then that will help you towards a better decision.

Now for my professional opinion.

1) Photokonia is almost 2 months off. The cameras from that conference will not hit stores until Late October at the earliest. I do not consider this a viable wait window. I am actively selling to folks right now. I'll stop selling in mid August. At that point in time it becomes worth the time to wait. Your sales guy is basically suggesting a 5 month wait to buy.

2) I have had multiple issues with small Fuji cameras. As a result I do not personally reccomend them to customers. I do not like cameras coming back to me. Fuji has had a very spotty record for me. I don't care how good the sensor is. I've been burned too many times.

3) XD memory has too many personality quirks for my liking. I've had 4 XD cards spontaniously erase when put into the store print kiosks. That's not supposed to happen and does not inspire confidence.

4) The user reviews for this camera are overall positive, I found very few negative reviews. The features are good, and the images look good even at high ISO.

If you have done your due dillagence, and are comfortable with the choice- buy it. Check with your shop and see if they will guerentee the price for 30 days on the chance it drops. I may, and stress MAY wait another month because it looks like Fuji is dropping prices on several other models.

Bottom line- there's always something better on the horizon. This camera has an excellent feature set. I would reccomend STRONGLY looking at cameras with actual optical image stabilization. That's the only feature I think is really worth making upgrades for.

Have fun, and I can't wait to see shots with whatever camera you end up with. :)

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

06/20/2006 01:28:09 PM · #20

Originally posted by eschelar:

I wasn't thinking DSLRs. By that standard I realise the sensor isn't that good. I was thinking more in terms of a slightly more advanced compact. I'm not ready to brave the world of DSLRs just yet. What I'm looking for is a take-everywhere compact, but I thought there might be a better option than this available soon.

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

06/20/2006 01:34:36 PM · #21

Thanks blemt, a lot to think about there.

Just to add, the shop was not about to close (not for at least 45 minutes) so I wasn't keeping them. And I didn't actually go in to buy a camera, only to enquire about the price. So they were pushing me into something without even knowing whether I was seriously interested or not.

Edit to add: I'm in no rush because I really don't NEED another camera right now. I've already got more than I know what to do with. And as I've already mentioned what I was really after was something with a lens that stays inside the camera. But that Fuji sensor looks so good for stock photography and offers great opportunities for low light photography that it's got me tempted. The guy who said wait probably gave the best advice for ME personally because I'm always seeing something else I want and I can't be spending so much all the time.

Message edited by author 2006-06-20 14:34:02.

SamDoe1

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

06/20/2006 01:44:34 PM · #22

My suggestion, look into another Panasonic. The noise issue is still there, but they all have a real IS system built in now along with excellent Leica lenses. I would put this one as simiar to the Fuji, and it's also cheaper. This one is cheaper still and also has IS. Not to mention, they would all use your existing SD cards. You wouldn't have to buy a whole new memory system.

Message edited by author 2006-06-20 13:45:59.

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

06/20/2006 02:39:00 PM · #23

Originally posted by SamDoe1:

I tried to want another Panasonic for those reasons, but when it comes to stock photography, noise is a major issue. I know that the long term solution is going to be a DSLR, but that's not going to be practical when I'm stopped at a red light. Even with my Panasonic FZ5, more often than not I miss the shot. I used to have a better success rate with my Canon A80, but those AA batteries give me so much problem that I'm reluctant to go back to that. And of course it's only 4mp.