Average Vote Cast - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

06/12/2006 08:03:03 PM · #2

We've had oodles of threads on this topic, but never managed to come up with a magic solution.

Some people seem to think they are God's gift to photography.

Even my average cast score (5.7) is too low, but I have a hard time accepting those under 5.

I find it very unfair of them to expect high scores, complain if they don't get them, yet bite your nose off if you ask them about THEIR low cast average.

I'm afraid I have no answer for you :-(

Jason_Cross

Nikon D50

06/12/2006 08:04:21 PM · #3

I wasn't trying to stir up trouble. I was just thinking conspiricy as usual. I tend to think that some people choose winning over honesty 90% of the time.

crayon

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

06/12/2006 09:23:24 PM · #4

I'm not a high voter!
but my stats reflect otherwise. I think it's because I wont hesitate to vote a 10 to those that I think deserves it.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

06/12/2006 09:28:43 PM · #5

I have nearly obtained the bell-curve voter's nirvana. Average vote cast 5.5062...

Nald

Nikon D700

06/12/2006 09:41:25 PM · #6

When I first started here I was a pretty low voter. Then I saw the light, well Karma that is....what goes around comes around is what I believe. I've been working on my average vote cast for some time now. Well, I'm still working on it to tell you the truth. ;)

Avg Vote Cast: 5.8903

06/12/2006 09:55:14 PM · #7

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I have nearly obtained the bell-curve voter's nirvana. Average vote cast 5.5062...

Why do DPCers feel that the average vote cast should be around 5.5, the mathematical midpoint? Aren't DPC images better than that?

Message edited by author 2006-06-12 21:55:23.

ralph

Nikon Z9

06/12/2006 10:01:47 PM · #8

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I have nearly obtained the bell-curve voter's nirvana. Average vote cast 5.5062...

Why do DPCers feel that the average vote cast should be around 5.5, the mathematical midpoint? Aren't DPC images better than that?

ya .. about half of them ;)

Lerin

Sony DSC-P72

06/12/2006 10:04:42 PM · #9

theroretically a five should be about fair considering the great and not so great photos here..

mine is

Votes Cast: 2165
Avg Vote Cast: 6.0374

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

06/12/2006 10:05:38 PM · #10

Originally posted by ralphnev:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I have nearly obtained the bell-curve voter's nirvana. Average vote cast 5.5062...

Why do DPCers feel that the average vote cast should be around 5.5, the mathematical midpoint? Aren't DPC images better than that?

ya .. about half of them ;)

OK... for the other folks, let me re-phrase... isn't the average DPC image better than that. LOL!!!

Canon EOS-20D

06/12/2006 10:06:57 PM · #11

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by ralphnev:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I have nearly obtained the bell-curve voter's nirvana. Average vote cast 5.5062...

Why do DPCers feel that the average vote cast should be around 5.5, the mathematical midpoint? Aren't DPC images better than that?

ya .. about half of them ;)

OK... for the other folks, let me re-phrase... isn't the average DPC image better than that. LOL!!!

So what is a good average? And how do you determine it?

I think I'll start voting on a 9-10 scale.

Marjo

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

06/12/2006 10:13:59 PM · #12

I blame my lower average cast (5.0) on dial-up.
It seems that I'm seeing a lot of flaws as they're loading.
It takes forever to vote, too. Waaaah, wah, wah.
I've tried to do something else while waiting, like build a house out of 500 decks of cards or overhaul my rotory engine....etc....and then when I come back after it's finally loaded, I seem to time out or something and I have to sign back in. More waaah.

So, now you know. It must be the dial-up users. We're grumpy because everybody else has faster connections and we take it out on the entries.
~big wink~

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

06/12/2006 10:19:56 PM · #13

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by ralphnev:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I have nearly obtained the bell-curve voter's nirvana. Average vote cast 5.5062...

Why do DPCers feel that the average vote cast should be around 5.5, the mathematical midpoint? Aren't DPC images better than that?

ya .. about half of them ;)

OK... for the other folks, let me re-phrase... isn't the average DPC image better than that. LOL!!!

So what is a good average? And how do you determine it?

I think I'll start voting on a 9-10 scale.

Sounds like a good plan. You got a long way to go to just get up to the mathematical midpoint. :) :)

Note: It is presumptuous and very wrong of me to suggest such a thing assuming you believe the average image submitted to DPC is bland and unworthy of better. Everyone's opinion is just as good as anyone else's, just diffeent. My appologies.

Message edited by author 2006-06-12 22:25:22.

eschelar

Canon EOS-7D

06/12/2006 10:21:11 PM · #14

Interesting question...

In a totally random field, statistically it would make sense that the more votes you cast, the closer your average would be to the mean 5.5. Or at least such would be the case if you voted totally objectively.

However, statistics would also seem to indicate that as the selection group improved overall, the mean ought to increase. This might also occur if the voter chose to vote on images that looked really good as opposed to the random selection.

On the other hand, if the field was random, but the average vote was above or below the mean of 5.5, this might indicate that the voter was not voting completely objectively, making the person 'nice' or 'soft' or perhaps in the other direction, 'trollish', 'elitist' or 'nasty'.

But of course, as STDavidson pointed out, the field of pictures at DPC aren't entirely random... and many of us DO jump over to vote on at least one or two images that might jump out at us here and there... I know that I don't always start on the pic in the top left corner when I begin voting...

To be honest, I don't think the theoretical statistics of voting really apply here. There are too many different motivations behind the votes.

I sometimes vote an image 10 because I think there is a quality in the picture that may be missing from the technicals. Images that I know others are going to be voting 4,5 and 6 on.

Emotions throw off statistics (particularly in smaller test sections like this with only a few thousand or tens of thousand samples at the most), and I think that this can be a good thing.

As to why people might vote with a low average? Maybe it's because they have higher standards... Fair enough... My downstairs roommate has some extremely high standards for what he considers an excellent picture. Doesn't mean that every pic he takes is excellent... and he knows it... So if he tells me that a picture that I think is really good is kinda mediocre or less, I understand that he doesn't mean it in a malevolent way... He might simply mean (and often does) that the pic is about as good as it was going to get under those circumstances, but the circumstances themselves brought the pic down. I would guess that his voting average here would be in the mid 4's.

Nothing worth worrying about.

We don't all have the same standards or ideas about voting.

Interesting choice of words Dr Achoo... You do know what Nirvana is right? It's the state of nothing. No pain, no worries, but nothing else either... it's just a mystical state of existence without substance.

Wouldn't an average vote of 5.5 mean that your votes are cast without feeling? :)

(totally kidding there)

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

06/12/2006 10:28:04 PM · #15

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Note: It is presumptuous and very wrong of me to suggest such a thing assuming you believe the average image submitted to DPC is bland and unworthy of better. Everyone's opinion is just as good as anyone else's, just diffeent. My appologies.

So 5.7 must be what they deserve, right?

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

06/12/2006 10:44:55 PM · #16

Originally posted by stdavidson:

I don't know. I see a ton of snapshot-ish photos entered all the time. Not to say there aren't a lot of great images because there are. It's just that DPC isn't a site with just pro photographers. We have lots of people just starting out.

To add, I guess I am one of the low voters (5.26 average). However, I hardly give out any 1s, 2s or 3s. In fact the way I vote is 10s and 9s are reserved for just the ones I think should ribbon so at best I'm giving out only 3 of those per challenge. I also factor in whether the image "does anything for me". Even if it doesn't but is shot very well it's going to get at least a 6 or a 7 from me. The problem is DPC entries tend to favor heavily on the setup gimmick shots (i.e. water, glass, reflections and other stock photo-ish images) which really don't care for so by default those images will really have to bring something new to the table for me to jump up and award them a great score. Of course if the challenge theme is something like water reflections then that doesn't apply.

Message edited by author 2006-06-12 22:48:16.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

06/12/2006 10:46:11 PM · #17

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Note: It is presumptuous and very wrong of me to suggest such a thing assuming you believe the average image submitted to DPC is bland and unworthy of better. Everyone's opinion is just as good as anyone else's, just diffeent. My appologies.

So 5.7 must be what they deserve, right?

LOL. That's dangerously close to the bell curve average. You gotta give out some more 10s man. :P

TechnoShroom

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

06/12/2006 10:51:57 PM · #18

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by stdavidson:
OK... for the other folks, let me re-phrase... isn't the average DPC image better than that. LOL!!!

I see a ton of snapshot-ish photos entered all the time.

In other words, no.

Cam

Sony DSC-F717

06/12/2006 10:57:35 PM · #19

Vote fair, vote honest....your average well reflect that.

Message edited by author 2006-06-12 23:06:54.

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

06/12/2006 11:07:40 PM · #20

Originally posted by eschelar:

In a totally random field, statistically it would make sense that the more votes you cast, the closer your average would be to the mean 5.5. Or at least such would be the case if you voted totally objectively.

This assumes, of course, that voter scoring should be adjusted to hit the midpoint. Why, I don't know. Heck, that can be achieved as easily by random, meaningless scoring.

The only significance to 5.5 is that it is half way between 1 and 10. Nothing more.

At DPC we give the average image a score around 5.23. What we are saying mathemeatically is the the average image should score less than the midpoint score whatever that might mean to us. Based on the voting scale I see every time I vote it means they closer to being "bad" than to being "good". That differs from how I feel about the images I see.

This is just my opinion. I think the average DPC image is better than 5.23 when 10 is defined as "good". So I score higher. That is my logic, pure and simple.

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

06/12/2006 11:13:04 PM · #21

I feel the reason why the average score here is around 5.2+ and not the 5.5 (1-10 scale average) is because we don't have a 5.5 button to click. If we did then you would see the averages rise to around that range.

When we come upon a photograph that we think is "average" we have to say 5 or 6 and 90% clicks the 5 because subconsciously that seems to us to be the average score.

Hope that make sense.
SDW

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5