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05/30/2006 04:34:19 PM · #26 |
i always use snapfish.com never no problems at all. I will give costo's a try one day....
I can see why and understand why walmart ask that but it can be a pain in the butt to sometimes, also when a place refuses to print them all together.
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05/30/2006 04:36:01 PM · #27 |
| Maybe they could just have a signed release. a paper you sign saying that you have the right to get copies. they are covered and the photog doesn't have to worry about letter heads and things of that sort. |
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05/30/2006 04:44:34 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
Originally posted by kdsprog:
Any other 1hour suggestions? |
Do you have a Costco in your area? I realize you have to be a member but if you are, try them. I get all of my photos printed there, I've never been asked about my photos. In fact a couple of weeks ago my brother was visiting, he recently graduated from the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) and brought several CDs full of his graduation pictures. I copied the ones I wanted onto my memory card, went to Costco and got several 8x10's and 4x6's printed for my sisters and me. Granted, my brother was with me when I ordered them, but there were no questions about ownership. And in case anyone thinks I was infringing on the "professional" photographer's copyright, I was not. The photographer who took his grad pics does not provide prints, just the files on CDs so the grads can get their own prints. |
In this case, it's very clear to me that they SHOULD have required a release and did not. Obviously, they've not been sued yet :) |
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05/30/2006 05:22:37 PM · #29 |
Ahh, ye olde "Walmart won't give me my prints" thread ;-)
They are notorious about this. I've had it happen and told them to tear up the print and that I would be the one suing for copyright infringement if I ever saw that print again. I'm suprised management didn't have ne escorted from the store, because I really let the morons have it.
They are convenient if you need prints done on the quick, but keep a busninees card or letterhead with written permission to print your own photos.
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05/30/2006 05:35:31 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by digitalpins:
i always use snapfish.com never no problems at all. I will give costo's a try one day.... |
Costco seems to specifically cater to "professional" -- with links to download profiles, remove "auto color correction" and custom back-printing.
Snapfish runs the online interface for the Costco photo center -- I upload photos and can pick them up in 1-4 hours. They are one of the cheapest printers around (8x10 = $1.49).
I solve this problem two ways: I almost always have a title and copyright notice printed on the border, and I include a copyright notice in the custom backprinting. If it has a copyright notice printed on it with my name, they shouldn't need anything but my ID. |
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05/30/2006 05:54:50 PM · #31 |
This ties back into the changing world of digital media. :)
And yes, I do have a different perspective on this. You know why this policy exists? Because along the lines, people like you guys and pro studios have sued Ritz Camera, WalMart, and so on because we've reproduced your copywritten images. Do you know that major studios send people into stores specifically to try and trip up employees? It's mystery shopping times 10.
I've had people walk into the store with scanned images on a CD insisting they are originals. I can clearly see the clone job on the copyright. We refuse to print, even if they offer to sign a release. I've been told, "but store XYZ printed them!" My answer is, "that's nice. I can't."
I have literally been given EVERY excuse on the planet. I've been told the photographer is dead, I've been told I'm a communist. I've been called several things that are unpronouncable. I've had people throw things at me. Funny thing is NONE of my pro customers has EVER had a problem with the policy when I explain it to them the first time.
You can think these policies are as stupid as you like. Bottom line is, my job is worth more than your need for convience or your ego. For the employees, this is serious. This is one of the few things out there that can lose you your job ON THE SPOT. It's HAMMERED into you constantly. It's a very, very high stress situation for the employees. None of us enjoys trying to explain copyright policy.
So I kinda take it seriously. :)
My honest reccomendation? Don't use WalMart or any non dedicated photo service store. Use a local lab, Ritz, MotoPhoto, or some similar facility. Go in BEFORE you submit images and let them know what you plan to do. That will prevent any communication issues down the road.
(And apologies if I sound terse here. The AC for the building went down about 2 hours ago and it's HOT here. Makes me grumpy. :) )
Message edited by author 2006-05-30 17:58:10. |
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05/30/2006 05:56:12 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I solve this problem two ways: I almost always have a title and copyright notice printed on the border, and I include a copyright notice in the custom backprinting. If it has a copyright notice printed on it with my name, they shouldn't need anything but my ID. |
This is PERFECT. It's also a great way to make sure your 4x6's don't get reproduced. As a second suggestion, consider putting your phone number in with the copyright. That makes things so incredibly convinent for the lab staff. No guessing, they can just call and verify things. |
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05/30/2006 06:02:17 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by blemt:
This ties back into the changing world of digital media. :)
And yes, I do have a different perspective on this. You know why this policy exists? Because along the lines, people like you guys and pro studios have sued Ritz Camera, WalMart, and so on because we've reproduced your copywritten images. Do you know that major studios send people into stores specifically to try and trip up employees? It's mystery shopping times 10.
I've had people walk into the store with scanned images on a CD insisting they are originals. I can clearly see the clone job on the copyright. We refuse to print, even if they offer to sign a release. I've been told, "but store XYZ printed them!" My answer is, "that's nice. I can't."
I have literally been given EVERY excuse on the planet. I've been told the photographer is dead, I've been told I'm a communist. I've been called several things that are unpronouncable. I've had people throw things at me. Funny thing is NONE of my pro customers has EVER had a problem with the policy when I explain it to them the first time.
You can think these policies are as stupid as you like. Bottom line is, my job is worth more than your need for convience or your ego. For the employees, this is serious. This is one of the few things out there that can lose you your job ON THE SPOT. It's HAMMERED into you constantly. It's a very, very high stress situation for the employees. None of us enjoys trying to explain copyright policy.
So I kinda take it seriously. :)
My honest reccomendation? Don't use WalMart or any non dedicated photo service store. Use a local lab, Ritz, MotoPhoto, or some similar facility. Go in BEFORE you submit images and let them know what you plan to do. That will prevent any communication issues down the road.
(And apologies if I sound terse here. The AC for the building went down about 2 hours ago and it's HOT here. Makes me grumpy. :) ) |
I don't blame the employees enforcing policys because you are right in that your job is more important to you. I blame people that make the policys. because the policy is in place doesn't mean it is good. I work in the cellular industry and have to enforce many policys that customers hate so i feel your pain(yes the phones really do cost alot that is why we need you to sign a contract) My idea of a paper to have the customer sign can easily be implemented with some lawyers help and would stand up to lawsuits. |
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05/30/2006 06:10:21 PM · #34 |
Well, let me put in my two cents here.
I AM a professional photographer. I mostly take pics of horses at horse shows. I have had problems with people trying to grab my images off the web and copying them from time to time. Particularly images from horse shows. They are not always obviously "professional" looking to the Wally Mart crowd because of the not necessarily pretty backgrounds that many show grounds have.
Personally I am GRATEFUL that Walmart and other places are FINALLY looking out for my interest!!!!!
Not that long ago my local favorite 1 hour lab worker (at Sam's Club) was complaining that thier own management would not back them up when the KNEW a copyright violation was taking place. I'm glad to hear that tune is changing.
I have been hassled once by a new employee but the manager said "Oh, she IS the professional".
They way I get around them trying to withold my images from me is to always use the same place, use it often enough that they all know you, who you are and what you do. I have spent time to build a relationship with my lab..... just like I did when I lived in a city that had Pro labs that I could use. You will find that they will start taking much better care of you if they know you. (Both Pro labs & Wally mart labs and all in between!)
As for the OP, I get from your conversation that she may not have know what a CF Card was. Ya gotta word it differently. Like maybe "the card from my camera!"
If they ask you if you are professional, tell 'em yes, whether you are or aren't. Make up a letterhead for yourself. It can be as easy as Your Name Photography and your address. And the other way I get around it, kinda by default, I usually have way too many pix to upload so I download them directly at the store. That way they see you twice and it gives you more chances to develop that needed relationship. I also have created a set of business cards, set them up in PS so that 4 fit on a 4x6 and have them print out my business cards too!
For those that walk into the store, a little secret, it rarely takes a full hour to get your prints. I time it so that I drop them off, take care of a few other errands, and pick them up. sometimes all I have to do is go eat at the snack bar...... you didn't hear that from me!
Edit to add: It rarely takes that full hour unless you have enlargements or a ton of 4x6s
Message edited by author 2006-05-30 18:12:12. |
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05/30/2006 06:16:19 PM · #35 |
The problem is digital. This policy works perfectly well with prints. Digital is a whole nother kettle of fish. It's changed the print industry in dozens of ways, some good and others bad.
I'm a die hard digital user and have yet to figure out a way to deal with the situation effectively. High rez scanners mean people can scan professional shots to a disk, have files large enough to print, and I don't have an easy way to tell if they are "pro" or not. People who do this learn after the first three or four places they go to that won't print that they need to not answer honestly when asked "did you shoot these"
I had a lady come in with senior pictures from U of MD on a disk. She looked me in the eye and said, "I shot these and I'll sign a release".
My manager and I both refused to let her do so. We sent her along. Did we make a mistake? Maybe. But every pro photographer who's done business with either of us over the years respects our approach.
The backprint idea is a great one. I really like that the more I think about it. |
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05/30/2006 06:17:25 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Ristyz:
I also have created a set of business cards, set them up in PS so that 4 fit on a 4x6 and have them print out my business cards too! |
Are those a non-standard 3x2 format? I can only get 3 standard 3-1/2x2 cards on a 4x6.
But, if you have one of these made up, just include one with every order -- if they ask for proof, tell them to look in the envelope and point out you were printing up your business cards right there, and show them your ID and a previously-printed copy of the card.
In fact, why not make up a standard release and just print it as a 4x6 print in with the order? |
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05/30/2006 06:30:58 PM · #37 |
Thank You Walmart for doing what you can to stop infringment!
People bitch if someone uses a picture on a personal website without permission and then bitch when someone else tries to stop infringment.
Make up your mind is it ok to print your pictures without permission or not? |
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05/30/2006 06:32:26 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by sammigurl:
Wal-mart is evil anyway. |
I'll second that.
I do all my NYIP prints at Target, and they are always helpful. One girl recognizes me now. And the prints look good. |
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05/30/2006 06:32:47 PM · #39 |
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05/30/2006 06:51:00 PM · #40 |
If you are a photographer good enough to raise suspicions of professionalism in the mind of a photo technician (as most here at dpc are) then why are you taking your printing business to the cheapest printer around. Quality images deserve quality printing. Let the snap-shooters hassle with the low ball guys. There are many, many alternatives to Wal Mart; likely all of them do equal or better quality work, and some at lower prices.
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05/30/2006 07:06:03 PM · #41 |
| A similar thing happened to me at Walmart, but they just believed me in the end... I just started talking and telling my story of how I took the pictures. They were a bit suspicious, but they accepted it without letterhead or release. |
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05/30/2006 07:09:10 PM · #42 |
Walmart are not trying to prove you took the photos, that is pretty much impossible. They are trying to prove you told them that you took the photos, so that in the event of any copyright infringement you get sued, not them.
I think you will find in this litigation obsessed society we live in that eventually all printers will do this or something similar.
You seem unhappy with this solution, it is inconvenient, especially the first time. My question what would you do in their position to minimise customer inconvenience but still provide legal protection? |
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05/30/2006 07:10:31 PM · #43 |
I'll never attempt to get my pictures printed at WalMart.
I'm afraid they'd not question me at all and then I'd feel bad.
:-)
(I just print mine at home. The cats rarely question whether I took 'em or not.)
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05/30/2006 07:13:03 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Leok:
My question what would you do in their position to minimise customer inconvenience but still provide legal protection? |
Displaying one more screen and requiring one mouse-click on "I Agree" is not too inconvenient ...
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05/30/2006 07:27:42 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
One person in the other thread said that they asked for a piece of paper right at the Wal-Mart photo desk, wrote a release to themself, and gave it to the clerk - and that was okay, he could then get his pics!
For cryin' out loud, doesn't THAT make you feel good? A) The rule is that dumb and B) anyone could write their own release for prints/reprints/whatever. |
There is no contradiction here. WalMart is simply trying to cover their behinds in case of a copyright violation. If they get a release for the pictures (even a fake one), their rear is covered (if the release is invalid, then this becomes a fraud case, which is no fault of WalMart's).
Message edited by author 2006-05-30 19:28:11. |
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05/30/2006 07:30:17 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by agenkin:
If they get a release for the pictures (even a fake one), their rear is covered (if the release is invalid, then this becomes a fraud case, which is no fault of WalMart's). |
Then they should have a pad of blank forms for you to fill out and sign, right at the counter. |
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05/30/2006 07:40:17 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by agenkin:
If they get a release for the pictures (even a fake one), their rear is covered (if the release is invalid, then this becomes a fraud case, which is no fault of WalMart's). |
Then they should have a pad of blank forms for you to fill out and sign, right at the counter. |
thank you, as I have said this twice in this thread ;) |
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05/30/2006 07:43:11 PM · #48 |
| I find it really hard to believe that there are people who get "good" prints from Wal-Mart. I've taken my negatives and cds to Wal-Mart and got terrible prints. For a happy medium, I've found that Walgreens is much better in quality. K-Mart is the absolute worst. But if I'm shooting something professionally, I take it to a professional photo lab. The cost is not that much more and I know I'm going to get really good prints that reflect what was taken, they're not going to be too dark or too light. |
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05/30/2006 07:52:02 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
I just print mine at home. The cats rarely question whether I took 'em or not. |
Yes, but I think the cats WATCHED you take the pictures. Everyone knows that the cats runs the government, therefore, Big Brother is watching! lol
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05/30/2006 08:15:58 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Leok:
My question what would you do in their position to minimise customer inconvenience but still provide legal protection? |
Displaying one more screen and requiring one mouse-click on "I Agree" is not too inconvenient ...
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Interesting...when I go to upload photos from a CD on wal-mart's machines, a similar screen comes up. I wonder why this isn't enough? Shouldn't this be enough to cover their behinds if they print a "professional" photo?
Message edited by author 2006-05-30 20:17:59.
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