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05/25/2006 11:47:26 PM · #26 |
Venison, especially wild venison, is very lean. If overcooked, it gets really tough. But I have no experience with cooking the wild version, just the "farmed" version, which I do medium rare, about 140 degrees.
I like a rub that includes crushed juniper berries and cracked pepper and garlic. Crayon's wine sauce sounds about right. I don't cook a lot of game, so I don't have much more to contribute, really.
As far as pork and trichynosis, that's pretty much ancient history. Plus today's pork is MUCH less fatty than it used to be, so it has to be handled accordingly or it, too, will dry out badly, with no fat to lubricate it during cooking. And I won't order a burger anywhere but a good restaurant now, because of the stoopid FDA scaring everyone senseless.
R.
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05/25/2006 11:48:06 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by colyla:
If your butt starts itching watch out!!!! (worms) man....I just grossed myself out.... |
You are thinking of pinworms, which don't come from pork. Trichinosis causes intestinal symptoms, and infects skeletal muscle and causes pain, not itching.
However, further research suggests that venison is not a vector, so it must be some other parasite you get from that. |
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05/26/2006 11:25:24 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by colyla:
I know this sounds odd...but since I moved to FL I have found out people here hunt by "sitting up in a tree stand and dropping corn on the ground below". |
It's called baiting and is illegal is some states, legal in others. |
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05/26/2006 11:34:11 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by colyla:
I know this sounds odd...but since I moved to FL I have found out people here hunt by "sitting up in a tree stand and dropping corn on the ground below". |
It's called baiting and is illegal is some states, legal in others. |
why would baiting be illegal? it sounds like a good way to kill something.
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05/26/2006 11:39:49 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by noodleboy:
Originally posted by _eug:
It's called baiting and is illegal is some states, legal in others. |
why would baiting be illegal? it sounds like a good way to kill something. |
It's considered 'cheating'. It's too easy. Hunting is about the skill of the hunter (which is why you have different seasons, bow and gun) and baiting requires no skill. |
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05/26/2006 11:44:40 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by _eug:
...and baiting requires no skill. |
That's why it's not allowed in the forums ;-) |
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05/26/2006 11:46:00 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by noodleboy:
Originally posted by _eug:
It's called baiting and is illegal is some states, legal in others. |
why would baiting be illegal? it sounds like a good way to kill something. |
It's considered 'cheating'. It's too easy. Hunting is about the skill of the hunter (which is why you have different seasons, bow and gun) and baiting requires no skill. |
You wouldn't need much skills where I live either... one could almost walk out and whack em over the head with a stick.
There are so many out here that the farmers are begging the government to let them hunt them down, and they have become a hazard on the roads. I have friends that hunt and as things are right now, they go into the bush early in the morning, and have met their quota by lunch times.
Ray |
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05/26/2006 11:47:16 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by noodleboy:
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by colyla:
I know this sounds odd...but since I moved to FL I have found out people here hunt by "sitting up in a tree stand and dropping corn on the ground below". |
It's called baiting and is illegal is some states, legal in others. |
why would baiting be illegal? it sounds like a good way to kill something. |
Baiting gives the hunter a tremendous advantage over non-baiting hunting methods, especially when times are hard and food is scarce for the animals. Some say it takes all sport out of killing game animals. But, on the other hand, in many areas deer populations have risen, and they have adapted so well to living alongside humans, that they have become a nuisance. So some of the older established norms, such as the one per season per hunter limit & the prohibition of baiting, are falling by the wayside.
Edit: A tree stand is often a good place from which to shoot wildlife photography. Some of the same skills the hunter uses come into play.
Message edited by author 2006-05-26 11:50:43.
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05/26/2006 11:51:03 AM · #34 |
Not to put a damp towel on things (cuz I like a burger with pink too), but I was a med student in Albany when we were hit with one of the state's worst outbreaks of E. Coli H157. The pediatric ward was packed with cases of kids with kidneys leaking blood. Not a lot of fun. The ultimate source turned out to be some apple juice from the state fair, BUT the similar outbreak at the Jack-in-the-Box chain in WA (which led to the USDA recs) was much bigger and came from ground beef.
E. Coli H157:07 is not something you really want... |
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05/26/2006 11:54:38 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by noodleboy:
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by colyla:
I know this sounds odd...but since I moved to FL I have found out people here hunt by "sitting up in a tree stand and dropping corn on the ground below". |
It's called baiting and is illegal is some states, legal in others. |
why would baiting be illegal? it sounds like a good way to kill something. |
Baiting gives the hunter a tremendous advantage over non-baiting hunting methods, especially when times are hard and food is scarce for the animals. Some say it takes all sport out of killing game animals. But, on the other hand, in many areas deer populations have risen, and they have adapted so well to living alongside humans, that they have become a nuisance. So some of the older established norms, such as the one per season per hunter limit & the prohibition of baiting, are falling by the wayside. |
so that's the reson why in some states is illegal or do they still do a crapy job keeping numbers to state if it sould be illegal?
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05/26/2006 11:59:02 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
...Baiting gives the hunter a tremendous advantage over non-baiting hunting methods, especially when times are hard and food is scarce for the animals.... |
Here I was thinking it's the gun that gives them a tremendous advantage :-) I don't understand the whole thing to be honest but I thought it was "the hunt" that the shooters say they want - seems just like a fast food drive-thru doing it this way (or maybe I should say drive-by shooting:).
Nice steaks though.... if done MR or M at worst. |
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05/26/2006 12:05:57 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by robs:
Originally posted by coolhar:
...Baiting gives the hunter a tremendous advantage over non-baiting hunting methods, especially when times are hard and food is scarce for the animals.... |
Here I was thinking it's the gun that gives them a tremendous advantage :-) I don't understand the whole thing to be honest but I thought it was "the hunt" that the shooters say they want - seems just like a fast food drive-thru doing it this way (or maybe I should say drive-by shooting:).
Nice steaks though.... if done MR or M at worst. |
amen to that, and if that get to be illegal then i guess we would have to use RayEthier's method: beat them with a stick. Just hope they die in one hit :)
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05/26/2006 12:14:54 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by noodleboy:
[snip...] then i guess we would have to use RayEthier's method: beat them with a stick. Just hope they die in one hit :) |
Sick mental image of Jorge playing Whack-a-Mole where the moles are given antlers and the 'Whacker' keeps getting stuck in the horns. lol |
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05/26/2006 12:19:12 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by noodleboy:
[snip...] then i guess we would have to use RayEthier's method: beat them with a stick. Just hope they die in one hit :) |
Sick mental image of Jorge playing Whack-a-Mole where the moles are given antlers and the 'Whacker' keeps getting stuck in the horns. lol |
hey i could picture my self doing that using a 2x4 trying to whack them out, but also hoping that thouse horns don't get stuck down there while i'm trying to run away. LOL
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05/26/2006 12:33:20 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by robs:
Here I was thinking it's the gun that gives them a tremendous advantage :-) I don't understand the whole thing to be honest but I thought it was "the hunt" that the shooters say they want - seems just like a fast food drive-thru doing it this way (or maybe I should say drive-by shooting:).
Nice steaks though.... if done MR or M at worst. |
The gun gives an advantage but is also the most efficient way for the hunter to kill, and least suffering for the game animal. But the hunter still has to find the game and to stalk it until he is within range. Skill is involved. When baiting, all the hunter does is spread a bushel of corn or milo around on the ground, find a hiding place (usually comfortable enough so that he can sit and sip a beverage) and wait for the hungry animals to come to him. Less skill required. I feel the same way about wildlife photography, more skill is needed to capture a hummer in it's native environment than at the birdfeeder on your deck.
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05/26/2006 12:39:34 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Not to put a damp towel on things (cuz I like a burger with pink too), but I was a med student in Albany when we were hit with one of the state's worst outbreaks of E. Coli H157. The pediatric ward was packed with cases of kids with kidneys leaking blood. Not a lot of fun. The ultimate source turned out to be some apple juice from the state fair, BUT the similar outbreak at the Jack-in-the-Box chain in WA (which led to the USDA recs) was much bigger and came from ground beef.
E. Coli H157:07 is not something you really want... |
I heard about this apple juice incident as well 'in the industry' from the foodsafe side of things...
Interesting that E. Coli is often transmitted via non-meat sources...
Presumably the 'safe' temperature for eating apples and apple juice is not the same as that of meat...
I've always considered that E. Coli and Trich and some of the other food borne illnesses were generally caused by poor farming standards and sick animals.
It's a major issue, but it can occur in all kinds of foods... It is also highly likely that there are more than a few areas of food preparation that goes on even in high end restaurants and especially homes that allow these ailments to be transmitted regardless of the amount of care we exercise in buying things...
Of course, some who have a lot of experience and common sense are likely keeping up with things pretty well...
One thing I always like to remind people is that 'small numbers of live, harmful bacteria' can often be just as bad as 'large numbers of dead harmful bacteria'.
Cooking is important, but every other step of the process is as well.. |
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05/26/2006 12:45:38 PM · #42 |
I eat mine MR if I cook it. If other people are cooking, well done. Tip I learned from somewhere down in the country - marinate it overnight in buttermilk. The acid breaks down the fibers to tenderize tough parts and the fat adds in moistness. I usually add peppercorns. Looks really gross when you pull it out of the fridge but it tastes wonderful once you grill it.
Forgot to mention - make sure the buckshot is removed. It looks amazingly like peppercorns. :)
Message edited by author 2006-05-26 12:46:20. |
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05/26/2006 02:09:50 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by dahkota:
Tip I learned from somewhere down in the country - marinate it overnight in buttermilk. The acid breaks down the fibers to tenderize tough parts and the fat adds in moistness. |
Buttermilk is low-fat -- it is milk from which the butter(fat) has been removed, then it's cultured with bacteria like yogurt or kefir. |
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05/26/2006 03:55:27 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Not to put a damp towel on things (cuz I like a burger with pink too), but I was a med student in Albany when we were hit with one of the state's worst outbreaks of E. Coli H157. The pediatric ward was packed with cases of kids with kidneys leaking blood. Not a lot of fun. The ultimate source turned out to be some apple juice from the state fair, BUT the similar outbreak at the Jack-in-the-Box chain in WA (which led to the USDA recs) was much bigger and came from ground beef.
E. Coli H157:07 is not something you really want... |
The less processed and handled any product is, the less likely it will be contaminated. Do what i do - buy a side of beef, and butcher it yourself. Get exactly the cuts you want in the size you want, and cut down on the bug parts and fecal contamination. And have lots of scraps for your pets. :) OH, and avoid fast food, that stuff is nasty anyway. |
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05/26/2006 04:03:53 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by shamrock:
The less processed and handled any product is, the less likely it will be contaminated. Do what i do - buy a side of beef, and butcher it yourself. Get exactly the cuts you want in the size you want, and cut down on the bug parts and fecal contamination. And have lots of scraps for your pets. :) OH, and avoid fast food, that stuff is nasty anyway. |
Absolutely. I buy nearly all my meat as primal cuts and process it myself; it's much more economical anyway. And I buy whole birds, not pieces, most of the time, same story. Something's always on sale. And I trust my processing more than I do the market's... But, to be fair, if you have a good butcher, he does all HIS meat-cutting on premises and contamination is not likely. What I stay away from is meat products that are factory-processed, mass-processed.
R.
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05/26/2006 05:21:46 PM · #46 |
Well, I think you guys have the answer, but not for the reason you think. Ground beef is the culprit because the "outside" becomes the "inside". Even in a dirty slaughter house the inside of the beef (meaning the interior of the meat) isn't contaminated, it's the outside that gets splashed with crap.
Steaks, therefore, are less risk for E. coli contamination. Searing should kill any surface bacteria. It doesn't kill any parasites on the inside, but we all need to lose a little weight anyway, right?
Message edited by author 2006-05-26 17:22:35. |
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