Validation by SC in ... - DPChallenge Forums

05/05/2006 12:17:04 PM · #1

How come images in the MS Tournament are getting validations done by SC? I thought all those "side" tournaments were supposed to be unofficial and unaffiliated with dpc, but our SC is officiating the tournament. Seems odd when it comes at the same time there is a discussion about the "outtake" rule in which several SC members have spoken of how much of SC's resources are taken up in enforcing that rule.

See this thread: Negative Image results recalculated

05/05/2006 12:20:13 PM · #2

Terry posted in another thread that because the tournament involves money, he had asked the SC to validate in the final rounds of the competition and they agreed to do so.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5- 5.6G ED DX

05/05/2006 12:21:56 PM · #3

Here it is.

Rebecca

Nikon D80

05/05/2006 12:24:37 PM · #4

They're not validating just for MS tourney. It was a regular challenge entry, and the MS tourney folks are validating everything on the side. As I understand it, every regular challenge entry that gets a validation request goes through the gauntlet. So it's not a favoritism thing or even really SC being involved so much as the MS folks taking advantage of the system as it currently exists.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5- 5.6G ED DX

05/05/2006 12:30:16 PM · #5

Originally posted by karmabreeze:

This seems to conflict with what scalvert said in the other thread.

Originally posted by scalvert:

Validation may be requested on any photo for any reason. In this case, the photographer was into the "money" rounds of the MS Tournament, and were told that their images would be validated.

Rebecca

Nikon D80

05/05/2006 12:31:51 PM · #6

Originally posted by coolhar:

Originally posted by karmabreeze:
They're not validating just for MS tourney. It was a regular challenge entry, and the MS tourney folks are validating everything on the side. As I understand it, every regular challenge entry that gets a validation request goes through the gauntlet. So it's not a favoritism thing or even really SC being involved so much as the MS folks taking advantage of the system as it currently exists.

This seems to conflict with what scalvert said in the other thread.
Originally posted by scalvert:
Validation may be requested on any photo for any reason. In this case, the photographer was into the "money" rounds of the MS Tournament, and were told that their images would be validated.

Yes, but read the part about how validation actually works. Basically, SC sanctioned this use of the system, but it's not like they're going out of their way to validate non-challenge photos.

05/05/2006 12:37:06 PM · #7

Originally posted by karmabreeze:

Yes, but read the part about how validation actually works. Basically, SC sanctioned this use of the system, but it's not like they're going out of their way to validate non-challenge photos.

The validation process is kicked off when someone recommends the photo be reviewed for rules violation or the photo places in 1 of the top 5 spots. If the recommendation isn't actually for a rules violation or if enough SC don't think it was likely to have violated a rule, nothing happens to it. A vote has to be passed before it's kicked through to the stage where an original is requested.

In this case, validation was requested specifically for the MS Challenge. That's not a violation of any kind or generally a reason to pass the image through to the request phase but in this case, special provisions have been made for the challenge at Terry's request.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

05/05/2006 12:37:13 PM · #8

Originally posted by karmabreeze:

Originally posted by coolhar:

Originally posted by karmabreeze:
They're not validating just for MS tourney. It was a regular challenge entry, and the MS tourney folks are validating everything on the side. As I understand it, every regular challenge entry that gets a validation request goes through the gauntlet. So it's not a favoritism thing or even really SC being involved so much as the MS folks taking advantage of the system as it currently exists.

This seems to conflict with what scalvert said in the other thread.
Originally posted by scalvert:
Validation may be requested on any photo for any reason. In this case, the photographer was into the "money" rounds of the MS Tournament, and were told that their images would be validated.

Yes, but read the part about how validation actually works. Basically, SC sanctioned this use of the system, but it's not like they're going out of their way to validate non-challenge photos.

Are they validating entries that would not normally be validated if not for the MS tournament? I would guess the answer is yes, but I have no idea how many.

Artan

Canon Digital IXUS v3

05/05/2006 12:39:31 PM · #9

Originally posted by coolhar:

.....

Are they validating entries that would not normally be validated if not for the MS tournament? I would guess the answer is yes, but I have no idea how many.

Why does it matter?

Message edited by author 2006-05-05 12:39:54.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

05/05/2006 12:43:15 PM · #10

Originally posted by coolhar:

... Are they validating entries that would not normally be validated if not for the MS tournament? I would guess the answer is yes, but I have no idea how many.

Link to MS Photo Tournament brackets. Only the quarterfinal, semifinal, and final round images are in the "money" - you can do the math I guess. ;^)

Photo Tournament for MS

...and what Artan said. ;^)

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

05/05/2006 12:43:56 PM · #11

Not sure why (or what, exactly) your asking, but we're looking at any requests that come in and asking proof on those we need. Then, dq'ing or validating as the case warrants.

It is not unusual to get a dq request on a picture after the challenge is over. Sometimes, a person may notice something not seen during voting, or something like that.

Yes, as has been stated numerous times, Club asked that the MS cash winners be validated, we said okay. So, we are looking at the regular dq requests during and after voting, the top pictures, and the MS ones (which didn't add but what one or two pictures?).

does this answer your question?

hopper

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

05/05/2006 12:45:09 PM · #12

I think Harvey's point is the SC doesn't have the authority to remove a submission from a dpc challenge unless they are acting under D&L's authority - and agreeing to SC an outside tournament is not acting under D&L's authority. Meaning the SC isn't allowed to pick names out of a hat and check validation as an SC for dpc.

Still, I think the SC should be able to do random checks, it's a good idea - but I'm not sure if it's currently a part of the rules.

Originally posted by karmabreeze:

Yes, but read the part about how validation actually works. Basically, SC sanctioned this use of the system, but it's not like they're going out of their way to validate non-challenge photos.

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

05/05/2006 12:46:21 PM · #13

Originally posted by hopper:

why not?

hopper

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

05/05/2006 12:47:35 PM · #14

i don't know ... i was just trying to paraphrase ... i think

i'm 100% cool with it

:)

Originally posted by karmat:

Originally posted by hopper:
I think Harvey's point is the SC doesn't have the authority to remove a submission from a dpc challenge unless they are acting under D&L's authority - and agreeing to SC an outside tournament is not acting under D&L's authority. Meaning the SC isn't allowed to pick names out of a hat and check validation as an SC for dpc.

why not?

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

05/05/2006 12:49:16 PM · #15

Seems to me the SC has been doing extra work to help fight MS. I'm glad you've been busted for it. People should know that this is going on!!

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

05/05/2006 12:51:32 PM · #16

hopper,

I wasn't trying to be a smart alec, I promise. I was just curious why anyone would think that.

Any picture can be requested for dq/validation, whether it is SC doing the "choosing" or not. And, if it is found to be in violation, we have the authority to remove it. For that matter, we could remove about anything we wanted to. ;P But, it wouldn't be a real good policy to implement.

Message edited by author 2006-05-05 12:52:08.

hopper

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

05/05/2006 12:55:48 PM · #17

i took it the way you meant it :)

and i should have added that i'm sort of putting words into Harvey's mouth ... i should let him speak for himself as i could be wrong

Originally posted by karmat:

Message edited by author 2006-05-05 12:56:05.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24, S24+, S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm f/4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

05/05/2006 01:06:18 PM · #18

While we're putting words in Harvey's mouth, I believe he may think this is a bad precedent. An image that otherwise would have remained in the top 20 has been stricken from an official challenge because it was called up for verification in an unofficial competition. Where is the line going to be drawn? Can any of us set up "unofficial" competitions and ask SC to police them for us? etc etc.

I'm not expressing an opinion pro or con, just riasing what I think are the issues involved.

R.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/05/2006 01:45:56 PM · #19

If and when we start to get too many "frivolous" DQ requests, we can take action.

A simple workaround would be to have whoever set up the competetion receive (personally) all the originals for validation as to the "side-competetion," and that person can forward on to us any which are in violation for official DPC smiting ... of course, some of those may have already been recommended for validation by someone else for another reason.

05/05/2006 01:49:05 PM · #20

As long as people are being disqualified for legal reasons (which she was...she couldn't submit proof), I'm not sure what difference it makes.