How do I improve sharpness? - DPChallenge Forums

05/04/2006 11:09:57 PM · #1

It seems like a lot of my shots are slightly out of focus or fuzzy. What are the 'keys' to getting good, sharp photos? Other than owning a tripod, which I don't.

fotomann_forever

05/04/2006 11:11:27 PM · #2

deatils? examples?

05/04/2006 11:19:42 PM · #3

um.. well, like this one, the eyes aren't really in focus.

And this one had several comments about it being fuzzy

My two current challenge shots both got comments that the focus is not sharp enough. I know I'm losing some detail in the compression when I size it. But it seems like a lot of my shots (mostly the ones I throw away) are out of focus or at least not crystal clear like the really good shots you see. Am I not grasping depth of field correctly maybe?

Message edited by author 2006-05-04 23:19:59.

Sigma 28-105mm f/2.8-4.0 Aspherical for Canon

05/04/2006 11:21:47 PM · #4

You've got some good lenses - fast too. Some thoughts:

1) Pick a focus point. Don't let the camera pick a focus point - it may not pick the one you wanted for the sharpest portion of your image.

2) Preferentially, use the center focus point. On the Canon cameras, it is the most accurate and the fastest. It uses both a horizontal and a vertical sensor to detect sharpness (all of the other focus points are one or the other, and may not focus on what you think they are focusing on).

3) Use a 2.8 or faster lens. Canon's literature states that the center focus point is most accurate with a 2.8 or faster lens. (of course, it works well at other aperatures, it just works better with faster lenses) And don't worry that you are shooting at some other aperture, the exposure aperture does not have any effect on the lens' wide open aperture used for focusing.

4) But make sure you have enough DOF! If you're shooting f/2.8 with your 70-200mm lens, and you're at 200mm and the subject is only 10 feet away, you have less than an inch of DOF so you better be *right on* in your focusing and hope neither you or the subject moves. Otherwise, it may be better to stop the lens down a couple of notches in order to get more DOF.

5) There is a point of diminishing returns in the sharpness of a lens. At smaller apertures (f/16 and beyond) the lens looses its sharpness. Due to the size of the individual pixels in your sensor, so does your camera. Your optimum setting for best sharpness on the 20D will be f/11, after that the camera itself begins to lose sharpness.

6) Make sure you are steady when shooting at less than 1/focal length shutter speeds - either using the IS on your lens, or using a tripod.

7) Your camera's output, unlike P&S cameras, really demands sharpening in post processing. Try something like about 300% at at radius of 0.3 and see what you think.

Those are the ideas that came to mind. If you share some of the pictures you're getting, maybe we can give you something more specific to your needs.

Rooster

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

05/04/2006 11:22:55 PM · #5

almost always good lighting is a key to sharper pictures.

viajero

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Canon

05/04/2006 11:24:00 PM · #6

Again, examples would be helpful. But, your portfolio shots don't seem very out of focus to me.

A couple possible ideas:

Digital cameras have an anti-alias filter which makes the image a bit soft and needs to be compensated for in post processing. Point and shoot cameras do this with a signal processing chip inside the camera. The 20D by default does less in-camera sharpening, leaving it up to you to do as much or as little as you want using the unsharp mask in Photoshop. Or, you can turn up the in-camera sharpening using a menu setting.

Also, when you resize an image to a smaller size, say to 640 pixels to post on the web, some more anti-aliasing is done, and you often want to do some USM on it after resizing.

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

05/04/2006 11:24:20 PM · #7

Originally posted by margiemu:

um.. well, like this one, the eyes aren't really in focus.

And this one had several comments about it being fuzzy

My two current challenge shots both got comments that the focus is not sharp enough. I know I'm losing some detail in the compression when I size it. But it seems like a lot of my shots (mostly the ones I throw away) are out of focus or at least not crystal clear like the really good shots you see. Am I not grasping depth of field correctly maybe?

Looking at your setting I would say the lighting was not sufficient causing you to use an ISO of 400 with a wide 2.8 amp. and still only getting a SS of 1/125th.
The wide open amp caused a small DOF. The use of better lighting should give you the opportunity to get an amp that would give you a larger DOF. I you look at the picture the scarf it's in focus but very small amount.
Hope that helps.

awpollard

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

05/04/2006 11:25:02 PM · #8

Start with the Parameters in your camera choose a setting right for the amount of post processing that you want to do.

By default the 20D (most dSLRs) is set to be softish focus, flatter colors and neutral tones. I've messed with my 20D parms so much I can't remember which it is set to out of the box. You have 3 presets (one being b/w) and then 2 more that you can configure to your liking.

If you do less post processing then kick up the sharpness, and contrast up a notch or two on one of the custom parameters and try that.

Shooting: Have the plenty of shutter speed when hand holding, don't be afraid to bump the ISO on the 20D to get a good shutter. Stop down your aperture, shooting wide open is nice for shallow dof but will tend to produce a softer over all shot in many cases. Bump the ISO up if you need and shoot at a f/8 or better.

Just a couple of thoughts...

MQuinn

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 Zuiko Digital Zoom

05/04/2006 11:25:54 PM · #9

Unsharpmask, I pulled up baby blues, ran the unsharp mask at 74%, 4.1 radius, and 0 threshold. was crystal clear...

Edit: in Photoshop that is.

Message edited by author 2006-05-04 23:31:46.

05/04/2006 11:32:44 PM · #10

Take a look at this with a quick application of USM:

It's much sharper, without going over the top (the last recommendation I saw was 74% at a radius of 4.1 which I think will destroy the image).

I sharpened at about 75%, but the radius was just 0.8. And then, just to bump up the local contrast (this doesn't do any sharpening of the edges) I applied USM again using a setting of 9% at a radius of 60.

Now, if you look at this newly sharpened image - the thing that becomes immediately obvious is that the cloth below the chin is much sharper than the eyes. The eyes definitely look better now - but it's obvious that the focus was not on the eyes, it was on the cloth (or you or the child moved after the focus was locked).

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

05/04/2006 11:34:21 PM · #11

P.S.
After reducing the image size for web, I just about always apply USM at a level between 45-75 and a radius of 0.8. That seems to bring back the sharpness that was lost upon reducing the image size. In this case, I picked 75 only because I felt the image needed more sharpening than usual.

Konador

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

05/04/2006 11:37:41 PM · #12

Yeah, all it needs it USM I think! Cos resizing makes it blurry.
Free USM Video Tutorial

awpollard

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

05/04/2006 11:38:43 PM · #13

Seeing the shot of the little girl, I would steer you down the path dwterry brought up and say make sure to use only the center AF point and in this particular shot I would use single shot AF mode. The parts that are sharp focus, look like the camera decided for you.

I would compose the shot with center focus point on one of the eyes and then recompose (while still half trigger squeeze) the shot the way I wanted it and then shoot.

Southern Gentleman is also correct in that a smaller aperture would have given us a longer dof, making everything in focus. Generally on a shot of this nature where there is little background we would want to see the entire shot in focus. I still believe you may be using AI-AF and it could be causing you grief.

Message edited by author 2006-05-04 23:40:16.

MQuinn

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 Zuiko Digital Zoom

05/04/2006 11:38:46 PM · #14

Originally posted by dwterry:

\

It's much sharper, without going over the top (the last recommendation I saw was 74% at a radius of 4.1 which I think will destroy the image).

Guess we will have to disagree, thanks for the nice burn!

Olympus 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 Zuiko Digital Zoom

05/04/2006 11:42:54 PM · #15

Originally posted by MQuinn:

Originally posted by dwterry:
\

It's much sharper, without going over the top (the last recommendation I saw was 74% at a radius of 4.1 which I think will destroy the image).

Guess we will have to disagree, thanks for the nice burn!

My apologies, my wording was rather harsh. I myself have been "burned" too many times by over sharpening. If you need a good laugh (or just to make you feel better) check out my challenge entries - you'll find that many of them were overly sharpened doing exactly what you described.

Try this next time you sharpen your image. Make it look good on your monitor, upload it to DPC, and then borrow someone's laptop and look at your image. You'll probably be shocked at how "overly sharp" it looks on an LCD monitor.

Edit: PM'd you a personal apology as well.

Message edited by author 2006-05-04 23:46:39.

MQuinn

Olympus OM-D E-M1

05/04/2006 11:47:17 PM · #16

Originally posted by dwterry:

Originally posted by MQuinn:

Originally posted by dwterry:
\

It's much sharper, without going over the top (the last recommendation I saw was 74% at a radius of 4.1 which I think will destroy the image).

Guess we will have to disagree, thanks for the nice burn!

My apologies, my wording was rather harsh. I myself have been "burned" too many times by over sharpening. If you need a good laugh (or just to make you feel better) check out my challenge entries - you'll find that many of them were overly sharpened doing exactly what you described.

Try this next time you sharpen your image. Make it look good on your monitor, upload it to DPC, and then borrow someone's laptop and look at your image. You'll probably be shocked at how "overly sharp" it looks on an LCD monitor.

On a laptop now, I did my recommendation before I posted. I didn't see it as over sharpened since it was such a soft image to begin with. I'm not trying to be abrasive just that is what worked on this image, and I was only trying to help.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

05/04/2006 11:47:31 PM · #17

thanks guys. Although the PS stuff is sort of a like a foreign language to me, since I don't have it :( I'm trying to translate it to MS DIS, which is what I use (hubbie is an ex Microsoftie, so we get their software dirt cheap). It has something called amount of contrast, which is a percent, and noise reduction threshhold and pixel size. I guess I'll play around with it some more.
These comments have all been a great help!

Konador

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

05/04/2006 11:51:46 PM · #18

Originally posted by margiemu:

If you watch my video tutorial it has 3 bars.

The first one is "amount of contrast"
The second one is "pixel size"
The third one is "noise reduction threshold"

In Microsoft language anyway. So everything I say in the tutorial should translate just fine if you remember the translations :)