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04/30/2006 11:31:11 AM · #1 |
new update at the bottom - 06-22-06
So my Sony DSC 717 took a shot with salt water about a month ago and lived. 3 days after the incident it worked, I took some pictures. I tried taking some pictures a couple days ago but my viewfinder and LSD come up black, no picture. The camera will take a picture of the black, zoom, etc. but just black.
Did the salt make its way to something and destroy it weeks after the fact?
And is this the kind of issue that could possibly be repaired? I don't know anything about camera repair or the cost associated.
Any help would be really appreciated.
Message edited by author 2006-05-22 15:44:06. |
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04/30/2006 11:52:45 AM · #2 |
Salt water is very corrosive and even the salt residue left behind after the water is gone continues to damage the camera.
On whether it's worth fixing, my best guesss would be no. More than likely, most of the electronics boards are corroded and/or starting to malfunction, including the sensor.
Basically, you'd have to have all new guts put into an old body. Expensive venture.
Might be a good time to start shopping the used dSLR market.
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04/30/2006 11:52:58 AM · #3 |
Oy. Sounds bad. I would check with Sony first, ask them if they can provide a free estimate.
If not, consider looking around for an electronics specialist. It may be a very simple fix if the camera survived the initial burst. The initial burst of water would have created the highest risk of permanent damage due to the possibility of shorting out... If salt leaked in and has crystalized, it could be causing a fault somewehere in the electronics but just need a bit of a clean.
I would be VERY cautious about opening anything like this myself. These things can be pretty sensitive.
Oh and it's LCD, not LSD.... LSD does not usually come with a camera, although you can have a stab at mimicking it's effects...
If LSD did come with your camera, you might want to be careful, there might be other things inside it that are making it have problems... ;)
If you have condensation of any sort, it's possible that it might have mixed with salt water to form an electrolyte which is something that easily conducts electricity...
Just some guesses.
Definitely time to visit the shop though. |
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04/30/2006 02:14:33 PM · #4 |
If the salt water dried in your camera, the salt will have remained on the electronics, etc. Salt is hydrophilic (loves water) and will attract moisture from the air (that's why some people put rice in thier salt shakers).
IIRC, salt itself is non-conductive, but salt water is fairly conductive. Also, salt water in combination with two dissimilar metals will form a battery, leading to corrosion. This hapens over time. So there are two possible causes of failure: 1. corrosion, which is not repairable, and 2. short circuits casued by a salt and moisture mix
The case, electronics, and all are all degraded by the effects of the salt water, and each component will be closer to failure. So you'd really have to replace all of the components (except perhaps the plastic parts).
If you agree that the camera is a total loss, I'd recomend that you remove the battery (and the time/date battery if you have one) and dunk your camera into a pail of distilled water. Leave it there overnight, agitate it every so often to get fresh water into it, and thoroughly dry it. Since you're going to throw away the camera anyway, it can't hurt. And it may give you a little more life out of it. |
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04/30/2006 02:18:29 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by hankk:
If you agree that the camera is a total loss, I'd recomend that you remove the battery (and the time/date battery if you have one) and dunk your camera into a pail of distilled water. Leave it there overnight, agitate it every so often to get fresh water into it, and thoroughly dry it. Since you're going to throw away the camera anyway, it can't hurt. And it may give you a little more life out of it. |
Let it dry a few days before you reinsert the battery. It's a solution I may have recommended. But, I think the damage has already been done.
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04/30/2006 02:26:00 PM · #6 |
There is a strong chance that the salt residue has 'frozen' the shutter mechanism in addition to electronic damage. Hankk's advice seems pretty sound, but I would add, use HOT distilled water, near boiling, to promote the solvent effect inside the camera. Partial disassembly of the camera case would help as well. Several baths of this type may be necessary to remove all of the contaminants.
Message edited by author 2006-04-30 14:26:55. |
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04/30/2006 02:36:44 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by ElGordo:
There is a strong chance that the salt residue has 'frozen' the shutter mechanism in addition to electronic damage. |
Isn't the shutter 'mechanism' in this case, actually electronic?
I would certainly concur about the flushing through with distilled water. Well worth a try.
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04/30/2006 03:20:13 PM · #8 |
There is an electronic interaction with the sensor: it must be 'purged' prior to re-opening the shutter which closes during this purge process. But the shutter is mechanical. Sequence is like this:
1. shutter is normally open and image displayed on lcd.
2. shutter closes, sensor is purged.
3. shutter opens and closes for preset duration (takes the picture).
4. image is saved,
5. shutter opens. |
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04/30/2006 03:26:38 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by ElGordo:
There is an electronic interaction with the sensor: it must be 'purged' prior to re-opening the shutter which closes during this purge process. But the shutter is mechanical. Sequence is like this:
1. shutter is normally open and image displayed on lcd.
2. shutter closes, sensor is purged.
3. shutter opens and closes for preset duration (takes the picture).
4. image is saved,
5. shutter opens. |
I wonder whether there really is an actual shutter. I know that the D70 combines a mechanical and an electronic shutter, but I imagine that, with the 717, the sensor is just purged prior to readout. Regardless, an accumulation of polluted water inside the guts of the camera will not do it any good at all.
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05/02/2006 12:12:33 AM · #10 |
Wow dip the guy back into some water and leave it for extended time? Won't that in itself cause rusting?
And just to clarify, all I get is black in my LCD (heh) and view finder but I can hear the camera zoom in and snap a picture, buttons work, etc. It acts and sounds like its working only no picture shows up in any shape or form.
I will try the dipping technique in a day or so if nobody offers a better suggestion, though at this point minus throwing money at it, this appears to be my only option :/
Thanks everyone for your imput.
Message edited by author 2006-05-02 00:12:48. |
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05/02/2006 12:27:23 AM · #11 |
| Rust is caused by oxidation. If you use distilled water and completely inundate the camera then no rusting can occur. Also it is likely that there are no iron parts that can rust, most parts being aluminum, brass, plastics and some copper. Drying the camera out will take time and you probably should use a lamp to provide a low heat to aid the process. Remember, don't do this unless the camera is considered a total loss and you have nothing to lose! |
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05/02/2006 01:32:10 AM · #12 |
| I sprayed my SD400 with salt water by accident once.. was holding it off to the side of a little boat, near the water, to take a picture of the boat and my dad and uncle in it, and a wave came and soaked the camera. The LCD looked really funky, like it was like 1/10th of the resolution all of a sudden, and I don't think it was able to take a picture right after that... but I turned it off and put it back in my pocket, and it worked like an hour later. Go Canon! |
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05/02/2006 12:16:37 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by ElGordo:
There is a strong chance that the salt residue has 'frozen' the shutter mechanism in addition to electronic damage. Hankk's advice seems pretty sound, but I would add, use HOT distilled water, near boiling, to promote the solvent effect inside the camera. Partial disassembly of the camera case would help as well. Several baths of this type may be necessary to remove all of the contaminants. |
I'd try room temperature water first. Hot water may disolve more than the salt. And the thermal effects as various parts expand and contract may not be so good. (Some cameras have a "storage temperature range" that does not go as high as 100 degrees Celcius).
Message edited by author 2006-05-02 12:30:00. |
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05/02/2006 12:29:00 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Wow dip the guy back into some water and leave it for extended time? Won't that in itself cause rusting?
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There are other chemical reactions that cause corrosion (rust is only one type of corrosion).
IIRC, aluminium and copper can be used to make a battery if you put strips of the metal in salt water. One of the metals oxidizes (the oxygen comes from the "O" in H20). Distilled water is less conductive than salt water and doesn't promote corrosion nearly as much.
The goal is to get the salt (and other stuff that came in with the sea water) out of your camera. If you put a small pile of salt on a plate, then let it sit in a humid environment, you get a paste of salt and water. The same thing will hapen inside your camera, as the salt absorbs moisture from the air. I think its worse to leave this salt paste inside your camera "forever" than to dunk your camera in distilled water overnight. |
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05/02/2006 05:21:31 PM · #15 |
| So just to be clear, I should leave my camera submerged in distiled water overnight, as in at least 6 hours? |
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05/02/2006 05:36:25 PM · #16 |
lose it and get this.
(shameless plug for my 300D on ebay for those not wanting to click)
reserve at 375.
for a DPCr i'll throw in the remote shutter release.
As to your Sony...sounds like a fatal condition. had you soaked it that night it got wet perhaps..but not now.
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05/02/2006 07:03:44 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
So just to be clear, I should leave my camera submerged in distiled water overnight, as in at least 6 hours? |
If there's salt dried in the camera, it will contaminate the water. The result will not be good. You also do not want to get the water into the optics, if the salt water did not go there. If it were mine, I'd remove the battery, dissassemble as much of the case as possible, and rinse with clean deionized water (distilled water is a decent approximation) being careful to try to get it only where the salt water appeared to have gone, and avoiding the optics. If the salt water has gotten into a mechanical shutter (some non-DSLRs have them, others do not) there is little hope of ressurecting it. If the salt water has caused metal dendrites to grow an short the circuitry, those dendrites may also remain after rinsing, or they may be effectively removed. Impossible to predict.
After thoroughly cleaning all visible residues out with the distilled water, get as much of the water out as possible, then place the still-disassembled cam in a warm, dry place and let it dry for a couple days. Now reassemble and see wht you've got.
In the end, you've nothing at all to lose by tring to clean it out yourself. It certainly doesn't pay to have Sony do it, IMO.
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05/22/2006 03:38:16 PM · #18 |
Ok part 2, the aftermath.
So I did what was suggested and took most of the body off the camera and gave it a bit of a soaking in hot distiled water for about 15 minutes and then rinsed it out for about 5 minutes with room temp water.
I then left it under a lamp and fan for about a week. Now I just put it back together and put the battery back in and everything and turned it on. Camera turns on, everything looks good, but still no picture. But this time its 100% black. Where as before it was about 80% black with the bottom 20% a blackish green color.
Everything else works, zoom, camera modes, flash and I can even view pictures on the viewfinder that are already on the mem stick.
So if anyone has any other suggestions I am all ears. Thanks for all the help to this point. This just makes me very sad, I loved this camera :( |
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05/22/2006 05:00:33 PM · #19 |
Bugger,
I think, but can't confirm, that there's a mechanical shutter there. If so, it may be that it's frozen up. I'd think the cam would be throwing errors... but who really knows? It sure looks like the ol' girl is defunct. |
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05/22/2006 05:11:20 PM · #20 |
It's not even worth the estimate. They will likely total out the camera.
Good news is you can get great dSLRs starting around 550 with lenses. :) |
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05/22/2006 05:56:18 PM · #21 |
| I recently got swamped by a wave myself while taking pictures of it (came up bigger than expected). The camera was taking shots on it's own after that. Than it came good with some errors. Than it stopped working. I sent it away. It came back working but with some errors and I was adviced that it wouldn't be fixable again and to use it till it dies or get rid of it, they said they couldn't get the circuitry for my model anymore. Probably an international model and I live in Australia. It only went for a few weeks after that. I opened it up myself, carefully putting the 100 screws into sealed bags with diagrams where they came out of. You could see where the salt water had attacked like acid. I sprayed with electrical solvent cleaner and touched up coroded solder joints with a soldering iron. The worst damage was at the end of some of the ribbon cables where the fine fingers of copper at the end go into connectors. They were eaten through. Too fine to repair. Anyway I put it back together hoping that I'd fixed the right bits and hoped for the best. Turned the camera on. Nothing. I went and bought a new body. I probably had a worn shutter anyway. I had taked 35,000 shots with the last one. At least I got a spare battery and charger now. For anyone reading if it happens to you the trick is too turn the camera off and take the battery out immediately, that stops the battery helping the salt to eat your camera. |
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05/22/2006 06:15:24 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Bugger,
I think, but can't confirm, that there's a mechanical shutter there. If so, it may be that it's frozen up. I'd think the cam would be throwing errors... but who really knows? It sure looks like the ol' girl is defunct. |
There is no way to buy a replacement part? This is what I think it is because everything else works. Whatever puts what the lense sees into the viewfinder/LCD is whats broken. Everything else I have tried works.
Maybe if someone has an old broken 717 I could replace that part or something? Surely there can be something done?? |
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05/22/2006 07:04:08 PM · #23 |
These are electronic gadgets. They're designed to break, and generally aren't upgradeable or repairable (or if they are the cost is such that it makes more sense to just buy the newest model). Otherwise the companies would go out of business!
And I can't give you any advice on tossing I'm afraid. |
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05/22/2006 08:43:36 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Originally posted by kirbic:
Bugger,
I think, but can't confirm, that there's a mechanical shutter there. If so, it may be that it's frozen up. I'd think the cam would be throwing errors... but who really knows? It sure looks like the ol' girl is defunct. |
There is no way to buy a replacement part? This is what I think it is because everything else works. Whatever puts what the lense sees into the viewfinder/LCD is whats broken. Everything else I have tried works.
Maybe if someone has an old broken 717 I could replace that part or something? Surely there can be something done?? |
The parts are almost certainly available to Sony service, but the labor to do the repair would certainly far exceed what the camera is worth. I think it's time to cut your losses :-( |
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