RAW- Where am I going wrong? - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

04/23/2006 11:40:19 AM · #1

This is my first experiment with RAW format. After "importing" RAW image in photoshop, and doing adjustments, I'm converting it into 8-bit mode (from 16 bit). This is because I'm not getting option of using adjustment layers in 16 bit mode. After converting to 8-bit, I'm doing "save as" into tiff format and then doing rest of the post-processing.

My problem is that I'm not getting the sharpness as good as JPEG pictures I clicked of same spot. Seems like image quality is also getting lost. Am I missing out something in terms of work-flow? Pl help.

I'm using Olympus C70/C7000 which is "like SLR" and offers RAW mode. Maybe its just that its not equivalent to SLR ... so poor quality.

Message edited by author 2006-04-23 11:42:16.

AlexSaberi

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

04/23/2006 11:42:25 AM · #2

Your camera settings are probably adding "in camera sharpness" to the jpeg files. With raw you will have to sharpen in processing.

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

04/23/2006 11:44:40 AM · #3

Originally posted by alexsaberi:

Your camera settings are probably adding "in camera sharpness" to the jpeg files. With raw you will have to sharpen in processing.

I did. Still its not as good as JPEG capture with same level of sharpness applied in-camera. My main motive it to get same, or better, quality then capturing in JPEG mode minus the noise. I guess (and have heard), that processing on TIFF, after conversion from RAW, helps in reducing noise.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

04/23/2006 11:45:35 AM · #4

When you shoot in JPEG, your camera applies some pretty aggressive sharpening, and also applies contrast, saturation, and white balance correction automatically. When you shoot RAW, all these things must be done in coversion or post-processing. It's usually better to do them there, where you have more control, but you'll need to figure out what theimages from your camera need in order to make them the best they can be.

Edit:
With regard to reducing noise, you might well be able to reduce its appearance somewhat, by sharpening carefully. The same level of noise will still be there in the original, though.

Message edited by author 2006-04-23 11:47:54.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Pentax

04/23/2006 11:49:37 AM · #5

Originally posted by kirbic:

Well....I did post-processing on RAW mode for sharpness, contrast and saturation. But the results are far from good. Am I taking right steps in terms of workflow?

Artyste

Sony Ericsson W810i

04/23/2006 11:55:01 AM · #6

Originally posted by tejinder:

Originally posted by kirbic:
When you shoot in JPEG, your camera applies some pretty aggressive sharpening, and also applies contrast, saturation, and white balance correction automatically. When you shoot RAW, all these things must be done in coversion or post-processing. It's usually better to do them there, where you have more control, but you'll need to figure out what theimages from your camera need in order to make them the best they can be.

Well....I did post-processing on RAW mode for sharpness, contrast and saturation. But the results are far from good. Am I taking right steps in terms of workflow?

Workflow steps are going to vary from person to person, camera to camera, and photo to photo.. so I don't really think anyone can accurately answer that specific question for you. However, if you're having problems getting the sharpness you are used to in RAW, then you need to go to USM in photoshop and work on finding the right settings to get that sharpness there. RAW conversion software doesn't always (actually, rarely does), do the same things your camera's software does when shooting JPEG.

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

04/23/2006 11:59:51 AM · #7

Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by tejinder:

Originally posted by kirbic:
When you shoot in JPEG, your camera applies some pretty aggressive sharpening, and also applies contrast, saturation, and white balance correction automatically. When you shoot RAW, all these things must be done in coversion or post-processing. It's usually better to do them there, where you have more control, but you'll need to figure out what theimages from your camera need in order to make them the best they can be.

Well....I did post-processing on RAW mode for sharpness, contrast and saturation. But the results are far from good. Am I taking right steps in terms of workflow?

Workflow steps are going to vary from person to person, camera to camera, and photo to photo.. so I don't really think anyone can accurately answer that specific question for you. However, if you're having problems getting the sharpness you are used to in RAW, then you need to go to USM in photoshop and work on finding the right settings to get that sharpness there. RAW conversion software doesn't always (actually, rarely does), do the same things your camera's software does when shooting JPEG.

Thanks! I can understand that workflow cannot be standard. I just want to be sure not to do anything which reduces quality of image (like conversion from 16 bit to 8 bit...maybe). So if anyone can point out anything which-I-should-not-be-doing, it will be really helpful :) Thats why I detailed steps I'm taking in my workflow.

eschelar

Canon EOS-7D

04/23/2006 12:17:18 PM · #8

I too am learning a new camera. One of the issues I am facing is also the decreased sharpness, I am going to play around with it some more.

What settings are you using in USM? How many passes are you making?

I am finding that shooting without the heavy sharpening in my S2 is making for significantly stronger settings.

I know it's a totally different camera with totally different statistics, but give the Canon recommendations a play-with. At least it's a place to start. I was surprised that it was this strong. Up to this point, I had been using MUCH more conservative USM figures as I had been using the JPG's from the heavily sharpened S2 IS. This much sharpening is really best on an unsharpened picture. If I apply it to my JPG's, it can show oversharpening in some cases.

USM 300% 0.3 radius, 0 threshold. Kirbic also suggested a threshold of 3 and I liked it, so I use that instead.

OdysseyF22

Panasonic DC-G9

Olympus 12-45mm f/4.0 Pro

04/23/2006 12:35:38 PM · #9

As eschelar said, the Canon settings of 300%, .3 radius, and 0 threshold do seem high at first glace. But, they also seem to work. Personally, I start with settings of 85%, 1 radius, and 0-1 threshold, and adjust there. Moving the radius much past 2 can cause oversharpening pretty easy, so I mainly adjust the %, and usually keep a low threshold (3 or under).

Good luck!

dahkota

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

04/23/2006 12:41:43 PM · #10

18%, radius 40 is also good to make the image, I don't know, pop?

Mine changes mostly due to size of the image (uncropped typically gets 300%, .3, 0), the ISO I used or the lens I used.

I do my sharpening before resizing unless resizing causes sharpness issues (resize before save to web allows me to see what I will get). I also switch to sRGB so I can note any color shifts that need to be corrected.

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

04/23/2006 12:49:22 PM · #11

Originally posted by tejinder:

If you would care to send me the original .RAW file I will see if there is something your doing wrong or not. I will do some editing and post the final picture in this thread to see if there is a difference. If you want to send me the RAW file send to < scottwhiddon@knology.net >.

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

04/23/2006 12:55:52 PM · #12

Originally posted by Southern Gentleman:

Thanks, Scott! I will surely send the RAW file. Since it is from Olympus, its with ORF extn.

I'm on dialup so won't be able to send now but will surely send it from office tomorrow (Its night here in India).

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

04/23/2006 12:57:01 PM · #13

No problem I will be looking for it tomorrow.
Thanks,
-SDW

04/23/2006 01:04:32 PM · #14

Just to add - I did not applied any sharpening in Photoshop except for in plug-in for Oracle RAW file. My camera has -5 to +5 seetings for sharpness and so does the plug-in. I assumed that +5 setting in plug-in should give same results as same setting in Camera. But that did not turned out to be true.

Do you think I should skip the sharpening or for that matter any processing in plug-in (unless something to do with white balance) and do everything in regular photoshop?

BTW, does layers not work in 16-bit for everyone or is it because I'm using free version of PS7.0?

Panasonic LUMIX-DMC ZS100

04/23/2006 11:11:07 PM · #15

Bump

wheeledd