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 04/21/2006 08:45:53 PM · #26
Just to quickly reclarify, the thread was created based on a response to a correction to information posted regarding PHOTOGRAPHIC accuracy.

I too make mistakes here and there, even the greatest do (ok, maybe not JRR Tolkien who did all his own editing), but at least they are fairly rare and I don't flip out if someone points my mistakes out. Photographic mistakes or spelling/grammar.

The other major milestone in flak for me was regarding a small typo in a user's signature. I don't care about people's normal posts or comments, but if someone took the time to set up a signature, it's possible that they care enough to make it right. It's certainly going to be pasted on to every post they make.

It's all about context.

Newspaper staff should have above average English ability. It's part of their job.

I too cringe with frightening regularity when I meet 'English Teachers' here in Taiwan who really can't spell worth crap.

Nobody here on DPC is here to teach English, we are all just rolling around in a 'help each other out' type environment.

Say what you like, but if it's not accurate, you will probably get called out on it.

All I'm asking for is a little common decency.
 04/21/2006 08:55:35 PM · #27
I only read a few posts and skimmed through the rest and I am just wondering if there is a village somewhere that needs burning?

Just let me know. I think I heard someone say "This is a burning environment" and I am here to help.
 04/21/2006 09:07:19 PM · #28
Personally, someone gave me the same advice and I was utterly grateful...I had been a little turned around on the whole DPI vs. PPI thing for a while and this person's critique set me straight. Don't stop giving this kind of feedback.
 04/21/2006 09:09:57 PM · #29
I just dont let that sort of thing bother me.
The people that make those remarks are not worth paying a dime of attention to. They will be gone soon enough, they wont like the site and move on.

You get all sorts here, but the ones that cant handle a comment normally are gone real fast. They just move on to another site where they can be a jerk.

04/21/2006 09:12:17 PM · #30
Hey art, have you ever tried burninating as opposed to just general burning? I have it on good authority that it's infinitely more satisfying.
 04/21/2006 09:32:40 PM · #31
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I only read a few posts and skimmed through the rest and I am just wondering if there is a village somewhere that needs burning?

Just let me know. I think I heard someone say "This is a burning environment" and I am here to help.


That's "learning" environment not "burning", get it right!!!! :-)
 04/21/2006 11:05:37 PM · #32
Originally posted by eschelar:
Hey art, have you ever tried burninating as opposed to just general burning? I have it on good authority that it's infinitely more satisfying.

Oh yeah! Trogdor! He was my pet.

...and kawasttex: tell Payton to remove the curse from me - it is causing my pants to fall down and giving me unsightly underarm stains. ;-P
 04/22/2006 01:40:49 AM · #33
Originally posted by eschelar:

I haven't checked Jones soda out, but I would be surprised if 300DPI was their only criterion for image quality.


This from their site;
"In the end make sure your photos have at least 300 dpi and are at least 2.25" X 1.875" (or 450 X 375 pixels at 200 dpi). Your file size should be over 150K."

jones faq

Hey, they must not have a lot of criteria, even I managed to have two pics on labels!
 04/22/2006 01:53:20 AM · #34
As I suspected, the 300DPI is qualified by a physical measurement.

450x375 pixels at 200DPI sounds a bit redundant if you ask me.

Weird stuff. Maybe I will send some pics to them.
 04/22/2006 02:06:21 AM · #35
It seems to me there has been a lot of discussion (in various forums)over who comments, why they comment, why they don't comment, are they rude?, are they helpful and whether they have spelt it correctly. For those of you who offer advice often (Bear, Kirbic etc)- keep it up. I follow your threads quite often (although I don't comment - maybe I should so you know that there are people who appreciate your efforts).
As far as having comments on every photo - I would love it (good or bad - I'm adult enough to be able to accept your advice or reject it)but I realise the impracticality of this. When voting on 200 images it is not possible to find the time to comment on all - therefore I don't expect it of others.
One of the reasons I don't offen post is my poor typing/speeds skills which can often lead to spelling mistakes (mystakes, miztrks, mscakes). I don't think it matters - I'm sure most don't notice.
 04/22/2006 02:28:53 AM · #36
Originally posted by eschelar:
As I suspected, the 300DPI is qualified by a physical measurement.

450x375 pixels at 200DPI sounds a bit redundant if you ask me.

Weird stuff. Maybe I will send some pics to them.


Oh, and just to clarify, the 300dpi was mentioned, and only it, just as an example of how some might get the idea that it was something important for displaying pics.
 04/22/2006 03:23:15 AM · #37
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
This has happened to me enough times that I have lost count. It's profoundly discouraging. I have had more negative PMs chastising me for being so presumptuous as to think to "inform" another member than I have had positive responses from other members thanking me for taking the time. This has caused me to assume that the negative responses are only the tip of the iceberg (for every one who posts back showing annoyance, mustn't there be many more who feel annoyed but keep their mouths shut?), and so I have become leery of posting ANY basic information/feedback to people who have not explicitly requested it.

Robt.


Bear_Music - I for one really appreciate your helpful comments, though I'm guilty of not PMing you to say thanks. I do at least mark all the comments helpful except in exceptional circumstances. Its human nature unfortunately to notice stuff you don't like. The old customer service adage - do something good for someone and they might just tell one person. Do the wrong thing and they will tell ten people for sure!

Originally posted by jhonan:
I find it very distracting if there are spelling mistakes in the title of a shot.

It's such a shame that someone can take so much time and effort over a challenge entry, and then spoil it with a spelling mistake.


Remember not everyone here speaks English as their first language - its an international site!

BTW I still don't understand why DPI is important for an image that will only be viewed onscreen. I know what DPI is but IE, Mozilla etc are more interested in pixel count I thought. Can someone explain?
 04/22/2006 04:25:33 AM · #38
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I only read a few posts and skimmed through the rest and I am just wondering if there is a village somewhere that needs burning?

Just let me know. I think I heard someone say "This is a burning environment" and I am here to help.


LOL
how about a village that needs some dodging ? :-)
 04/22/2006 04:29:42 AM · #39
True, DPC is international. Incidentally, so is the internet. Hence, so are online dictionaries. Lots of them. Free.

I don't personally care, but the poster apparently does, and it's true, those that take pictures that don't appear to care about them are taking the first step in helping their viewers to forget their work.

Being someone who lives in a country filled with non-english speaking people, I can tell you that those that care, do try. And usually succeed at least in getting the spelling correct.

To reiterate on the DPI/PPI issue, it is a measurement of the physical characteristics of the MEDIUM that you are viewing a photo on. If it's paper, then it is a number that refers to resolution of the print. If it's a computer screen, it refers to the characteristics of the monitor.

DPI is set by your monitor. You cannot actually change the physical characteristics of your monitor's display with any form of software (although in another thread, I think I heard that Chuck Norris could... oy, that's infectious :). You can change it downwards, but you can't surpass the physical limit.

Pixel count is indeed the relevant information when presenting photos on a computer.

DPI is relevant when buying a monitor/laptop.
 04/22/2006 04:35:48 AM · #40
DPI means Jack sh**!!

DPI means Dots Per Inch

PPI means Pixels Per Inch

When you look at an image on the monitor you are looking at Pixels.

When you look at an printed photo you are looking at Dots of Ink.

You cannot look at dots of ink on the monitor. Many people call PPI by the term DPI. And it gets many people confused. So just laugh when you hear people speak of 300DPI when you are viewing an image on a monitor.

When you see contest rules specify 300 DPI, then that is different as they are asking for a printable version. But their printer needs to define the printing requirements....ie. dpi.....but they still need your image at a required ppi to meet the dpi requirement.

The general rule states that you need a minimum 50% PPI per DPI. So for example....300 DPI requires a minimum 150 PPI. The higher the PPI the better the print quality.

But for viewing on the internet you ONLY need to worry about a 72 PPI.

I hope this makes sense to people.

Judi
 04/22/2006 01:19:22 PM · #41
Art - Payton officially removes said curse!

04/22/2006 10:00:16 PM · #42
Judi, I appreciate what you say and it is indeed accurate, but I believe some of what you are saying is bordering on a bit of a parallel to the lens/lense discussion.

Language is about usage.

DPI MAY indeed officially refer to Dots of Ink, but I don't call it DIPI or DOIPI, I call it simply DPI. On the internet, it is frequently misused as a standard word referring to resolution. In many cases, it is appropriate to use PPI instead, but it is not a major stretch from a pixel to a dot. LANGUAGE WISE, My definition of DPI is Dots Per Inch. A pixel is a picture cell. In English, the word Dot has a common usage with a somewhat broad meaning. In contrast, Pixel has only a very specific usage with a very narrow meaning. To my definition, a monitor is measured in PPI because it contains many individual picture cells. A file could be stated as containing pixels as well because each unit contains picture information. However, when that information has been modified for presentation, a pixel can digitally represent a dot. Why? Because that is the meaning of the word dot.

I have a tiny dot on my screen (what I can see) because of a stuck pixel (what it is).

Common reference allows a certain amount of sloppiness as to the usage of the term.

The terms DPI and PPI are technical terms that come from industry, and within that industry have very strict usage. Outside of that industry, usage is slightly looser.

The English Language is funny because it is often defined by the people who know less.

My original point with DPI/PPI was that the terms are basically irrelevant when discussing pictures only as displayed on digital screens. Actual Pixel count is the relevant information. DPI was the term that user was familiar with, so I wanted to stay on topic and address the primary fault. I have absolutely no problem with someone switching definitions of DPI and PPI when they didn't even have a place in the discussion in the first place. My point was that DPI and PPI is a RATIO that does not have a global 'standard' even within a specific pixel dimension because of different displays. I still believe that even the 72PPI figure in Photoshop Image Size is irrelevant in the digital context. Try changing it and see that the only thing that changes is the pixel's relationship to 'inches'. The inches are imaginary at this point because it's digital.

Having said that, I am curious as to why PPI could change when being passed through a printer? I am wondering if perhaps this might be because of some form of internal interpolation in-printer (possibly part of the process of the separation of color information for the individual print heads?). I don't own a printer and I print very few of my pictures (mostly because very few of my pictures are worthy ;), and when I do get pictures, they don't usually say what resolution they are at.

My brain would tell me though that if you take a picture to the printer and their printer works at 300DPI max, if you take a picture that has 300PPI at say 8x10 (as measured in Photoshop), or whatever physical dimensions you want, you will get a direct representation of your picture. If you go to the same printer but haven't prepared your picture for printing, the MINIMUM is likely to be 150PPI for a given physical dimension (say 150PPI at 8x10 inches in PS) that will allow the printer to make a nice print.

Indeed, there is plenty of odd information running around about printers... aren't there some that claim to have like 8000 dpi, but are actually 200 or 300 dpi?

This sort of thing suggests to me that all printers are not equal in the way they actually deal with the information they are provided with. Being digital, a printer will print at it's own resolution as defined when you hit print (physical dimensions like 8x10 compared with actual pixel information) Pixel spacing in a printer is also affected by physical limitations.

Poor horse. He thought he could get some peace and quiet by simply passing away...

Sorry.
04/22/2006 10:16:26 PM · #43
Originally posted by eschelar:
Perhaps this belongs in rant, but...

Man, I feel crummy about helping people.

I noticed a comment by someone on someone's undersized photograph that recommended that they post the picture at 640 pixels and 300DPI so they get full impact. The recipient photographer had posted a thread about being discouraged by the strong negative comments in their first two challenge entries.

I have spent the last year and a half putting significant amounts of time into reading and learning about photography stuff and while I do occasionally get things wrong, there are a number of things I feel that I have a reasonable grasp on.

Pls send me that PM about the DPI thingie. I would love to know more. I won't send you a bad comment - I promise.

DPI is one of them. It is hardly a complicated subject. I figured it out with my mad math skillz learned in grade 5. I did not need to read about it or take a course or anything, it is just a simple fact of what it is.

It certainly seems as though this commenter does not though, so I sent a tactful, carefully worded PM (to avoid embarrassing them in public) with a clear, simple explanation of what DPI is, how it works and how to calculate it, along with the explanation that DPI is not related to the picture as submitted, but rather the screen/printed medium that the viewer happens to be using to view the picture at the time.

I received this reply:
Originally posted by rudeperson:
yes, and who died and made you the leading authority! Get a life bud


This is not the first time that I have received this sort of reply. On another occasion, I pointed out a small typo to someone who appeared to have possibly a slavic/russian type user name who had not listed location in the profile, but later turned out to be from Canada.

I sent back a like reply and now I feel bad. Not because that person doesn't deserve rudeness, but because I don't like this sort of reaction in myself. I don't normally get angry and respond like this, but there is a very special level of anger that one feels when one was just trying to be helpful and is returned with spite.

So I guess what I want to say is:

HEY! If you make a dumb mistake and someone points it out to you in a DISCRETE way, have the maturity to accept that you made a mistake.

If you feel that you didn't make a mistake, then feel free to discuss it with that person or tell them simply that you don't agree. Or do nothing at all.

If you did know this but simply overlooked something or weren't thinking at the time of posting, then feel free to simply ignore/delete the PM.

Responding rudely to someone who is pointing out a mistake that is VERY basic and simple is totally uncalled for.

This is a LEARNING COMMUNITY! Some people are running around willing to help others. If you go around making mistakes, it's quite possible someone might offer some info that might help put you on the right track. I know, I make plenty of mistakes too.

I realize that not everyone is a nice person, but this really bothers me.

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