Black and White Conversion - DPChallenge Forums

Carl Zeiss Planar T 50mm f/1.7

04/21/2006 10:55:32 AM · #1

I know there are many methods of converting a digital image to B&W. I know a few myself.
In your opinion what is the best method?

tryals15

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

04/21/2006 11:10:21 AM · #2

I like using the channel mixer in photoshop.. it give the most control over the tones in the image...

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/21/2006 11:13:39 AM · #3

it depends on the image. one of my favorite methods is to switch to lab color mode, then click on the lightness channel, then start adjusting curves and levels until i'm satisfied with the tones. once done, i switch to grayscale mode.

that's how i did these:

front_element

Nikon D700

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/21/2006 11:14:29 AM · #4

1. Create new H/S layer
2. Set mode to 'color'
3. Set saturation to '0'
4. Create another H/S layer
5. Ensure it in 'underneath' the first H/S layer
6. Open the 'bottom, H/S and adjust the hue slider to alter and accentuate the tones of the image.

It's worth noting that this method would fall foul of the 'basic' editing rules (if I understand them correctly) as it uses a layer set to other than 'normal'

More can be found in this DPC thread

Olympus 17.5-45mm f/3.5-5.6

04/21/2006 11:38:31 AM · #5

Channel mixer for moi. I've tried other techniques, but keep coming back to this one.

kirsty_mcn

Olympus E-500 EVOLT

04/21/2006 11:43:44 AM · #6

In PS Elements 2.0 I just use hue & saturation; slide the master saturation to zero, then adjust the individual colours for lightness til it looks good. If I want any tone I do the same thing, click ok, and go back on Hue n saturation to colorize.

Nearly always need some levels afterwards to bring back some contrast though

04/21/2006 08:12:37 PM · #7

Ok what do you guys think of this picture. I converted it to B&W. Your thoughts?

Prof_Fate

04/21/2006 08:26:02 PM · #8

Originally posted by maggieddd:

Ok what do you guys think of this picture. I converted it to B&W. Your thoughts?

a little low on contrast maybe? Darken the sky a tad maybe.

Prof_Fate

04/21/2006 08:29:34 PM · #9

Originally posted by maggieddd:

I know there are many methods of converting a digital image to B&W. I know a few myself.
In your opinion what is the best method?

depends on the image...
i've tried several methods, and well, my mood changes too so ...

what seems to be an easy one (although not basic editing legal)

make a hue/sat layer, change blending mode to COLOR
create another hue/sat layet, push sat slider all the way left (desat it). this layoer goes on top of the first one.
GO to the first hue/sat layer and push the hue slider about (and to some extent the sat slider too)

What I think works best is Canon's Digital Photo Pro. You can add filters, drag the RGB histogram lines all over the place, and more - all very interactively, and if you do it to a RAW image, it can be undone, and is DPC legal.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

04/21/2006 08:40:09 PM · #10

Here's a quick edit of your pic:

This required a quick mask to separate processing on the sky and the foreground. The sky has a lot of really nice detail that wasn't showing up due to the low contrast and high brightness. The exposure overall begged to be toned dwon a bit.

Rikki

Canon EOS-20D

04/21/2006 08:50:09 PM · #11

Originally posted by skiprow:

ditto what skip says. i also play with highlight and shadows prior to converting to grayscale mode.

04/21/2006 09:05:02 PM · #12

How about this one?

04/21/2006 09:08:45 PM · #13

Originally posted by kirbic:

Here's a quick edit of your pic:

This required a quick mask to separate processing on the sky and the foreground. The sky has a lot of really nice detail that wasn't showing up due to the low contrast and high brightness. The exposure overall begged to be toned dwon a bit.

how exactly did you do that? Can you give me step by step instructions?

Message edited by author 2006-04-21 21:14:37.

04/21/2006 09:51:54 PM · #14

Ok how about this one?

04/21/2006 10:01:33 PM · #15

04/21/2006 10:43:59 PM · #16

Originally posted by maggieddd:

Ok how about this one?

Ah yes! You've brought out some nice contrast in the trees in the distance, the mountains against the sky, and the tones in the foreground. The last one is best, IMO.
Have you tried separate conversions for the sky and foreground, then blending later? I'd bet you could improve the sky even more! It's a really nice, dramatic sky; makes the shot, IMO.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM II

04/21/2006 10:46:12 PM · #17

Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by maggieddd:
Ok how about this one?

Ah yes! You've brought out some nice contrast in the trees in the distance, the mountains against the sky, and the tones in the foreground. The last one is best, IMO.
Have you tried separate conversions for the sky and foreground, then blending later? I'd bet you could improve the sky even more! It's a really nice, dramatic sky; makes the shot, IMO.

I did process them separately.
Can you tell me how you did yours?

lynnesite

Canon EOS-1D X

04/21/2006 11:03:35 PM · #18

For a ton of "pop", Greg Gorman's technique which is SO not legal in basic because the adjustment layer is in multiply mode (and got my 4th turned into a DQ in low key.)

BLACK AND WHITE CONVERSION
1. Open a color Image in Photoshop in either 8 or preferably 16
bit (Photoshop CS)
2. Under the Image menu, choose Mode>Lab
3. Click (Highlight) the Lightness Channel
4. Under Image menu, choose Mode>Grayscale (Discard Color
Information)
5. Command/Control Click on the Gray Channel (to load the
selection)
6. Under the Select Menu, choose Image>Inverse
7. Under Image menu, choose Mode>RGB Color
8. In the Adjustment Layers Palette choose Solid Color
9. Select a color from the Color Picker or from the Swatches
Palette (which I prefer)
10.Your choice of color should be based on the tonal range you
wish to see in your final B&W
11. Go to your Layers Palette and change your Blending Mode
to Multiply
12. Because your Color Fill is on a Layer you may adjust the
opacity to dial back the color to your desire
13. In addition (IMPORTANT), you may add a Curves or
Adjustment to achieve the desired contrast
14. Should you wish to change the color of your B&W
â��Duotoneâ�� simply Double Click the Color Fill and reselect

04/21/2006 11:08:59 PM · #19

Originally posted by maggieddd:

...I did process them separately.
Can you tell me how you did yours?

Just having the gray image to work with, I simply made a gradient selection across the horizon line and adjusted contrast and exposure in the sky and foreground separately. I also applied a little local contrast enhancement using lare-radius USM. I used radius=25, amount=20 and threshold=0. Note that this technique can blow highlights that are close to blowing out, so best to do this before adjusting white point.

04/21/2006 11:16:48 PM · #20

Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by maggieddd:
...I did process them separately.
Can you tell me how you did yours?

Just having the gray image to work with, I simply made a gradient selection across the horizon line and adjusted contrast and exposure in the sky and foreground separately. I also applied a little local contrast enhancement using lare-radius USM. I used radius=25, amount=20 and threshold=0. Note that this technique can blow highlights that are close to blowing out, so best to do this before adjusting white point.

Ok stupid question, how do you make gradient selection?

04/21/2006 11:21:34 PM · #21

Originally posted by kirbic:

what tool did you use for contrast and exposure adjustment?

04/21/2006 11:26:52 PM · #22

Originally posted by maggieddd:

...Ok stupid question, how do you make gradient selection?

Fast way:
- Hit "q" key to enter quick mask mode
- Select the gradient tool and make sure the foreground color is set to black
- Select the "foreground to transparent" from the gradient toolbar dropdown (second from left, looks like fade from black to checkerboard)
- On the image, click/drag to create the transition. Where you start will be full deselected, where youend will be fully selected. The deselected (masked) areas will be painted red. If you screwed up the location of the gradient, just Edit>Step Backward and try again.
- Hit "q" again to exit quick mask mode. Adjust contrast & exposure (I used curves)
- Select>Inverse and adjust the other part of the image.

The trick is getting the gradient in the right place. It needs to be broad enough that it does not create a noticable line. Keeping most of it on the foreground hides it better than if most of it is on the sky. I used a gradient about 1/5 the height of the whole image.

Edit:
Once you get used to this procedure, the whole process takes as liittle as a minute or two. The downside of this process is that it's destructive. An alternative, non-destructive process would go something like this:

- Duplicate base layer
- Add layer mask to duplicate (top) layer
- Adjust the top layer for the sky or foreground
- Turn off visibility of the top layer
- Adjust the bottom layer for the part you did not adjust above
- Turn on visibility of the top layer
- Apply gradient and/or paint on the layer mask for the top layer to reveal the desired parts of the bottom layer.

Message edited by author 2006-04-21 23:31:50.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

04/21/2006 11:47:12 PM · #23

Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by maggieddd:
...Ok stupid question, how do you make gradient selection?

Fast way:
- Hit "q" key to enter quick mask mode
- Select the gradient tool and make sure the foreground color is set to black
- Select the "foreground to transparent" from the gradient toolbar dropdown (second from left, looks like fade from black to checkerboard)
- On the image, click/drag to create the transition. Where you start will be full deselected, where youend will be fully selected. The deselected (masked) areas will be painted red. If you screwed up the location of the gradient, just Edit>Step Backward and try again.
- Hit "q" again to exit quick mask mode. Adjust contrast & exposure (I used curves)
- Select>Inverse and adjust the other part of the image.

The trick is getting the gradient in the right place. It needs to be broad enough that it does not create a noticable line. Keeping most of it on the foreground hides it better than if most of it is on the sky. I used a gradient about 1/5 the height of the whole image.

Edit:
Once you get used to this procedure, the whole process takes as liittle as a minute or two. The downside of this process is that it's destructive. An alternative, non-destructive process would go something like this:

- Duplicate base layer
- Add layer mask to duplicate (top) layer
- Adjust the top layer for the sky or foreground
- Turn off visibility of the top layer
- Adjust the bottom layer for the part you did not adjust above
- Turn on visibility of the top layer
- Apply gradient and/or paint on the layer mask for the top layer to reveal the desired parts of the bottom layer.

OK, I understand everything and was able to follow. The only thing I am having a problem with is adjusting curves so the sky looks like yours. Did you make s-shaped curve?

riolobo

Canon EOS-20D

04/21/2006 11:50:25 PM · #24

Originally posted by front_element:

...It's worth noting that this method would fall foul of the 'basic' editing rules (if I understand them correctly) as it uses a layer set to other than 'normal'...

Actually, there need be no running afoul of Basic Rules. Just add these two steps:

7. When you have the image the way you want it, desaturate the bottom H/S layer.
8. Delete the upper H/S layer, thus removing the illegal Color blending mode.